Curse

Chthon · Aug 29, 2007, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

Haven't seen the actual skill description myself, but...
Strip naked --> Cast on boss --> Laugh?

Yeah, the moment I saw that I thought "OMG, it's an unnerfed spirit bond for PvE... only better!"

KamikazeChicken · Aug 29, 2007, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

Actualy if you have ever use BA on a Pet you would understand that unlike BA on players Monsters seem to ignore it.

You want people to run gimped shit to expand from effective roles, but you still want people to run a tank so your pet survives? FYI, AI usually goes for the W first because it probably has less health. Dire pets tend to be targets quite often.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

Furthermore some players such as myself like to quest and not be redundant on reducing my only roles to Prot, Bond, or Heal.

I don't care how you play. Just because you like to smite, that doesn't mean the other monk skill lines should be left out of PvE-only skills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

Furthermore A good monk (which you're not, Glory Fox) does not always have to have 7 prot / heal skills plus a res

When was the last time a monk actually brought a res... waste of a skill slot. And stop saying you can take them... just because you CAN take a skill doesn't mean you should. I could walk around with a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing pet all the time, but that's a pointless and stupid thing to do. I guess people like you don't really care about that. No wonder the skill level of a PUG is in the toilet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

One last thing ... some people actually play the video game and have fun. You might try it. Scary as it sounds you might enjoy it.

People have different ideas of fun. I don't enjoy smiting, gimped builds, and idiots such as yourself. None of those are even the initial topic because you trolled it into your love of smiting and bonding. Go read up on Fallacy of Composition because you enjoy using it far too often. You can join my ignore list, as soon as I figure out how to add people w/o removing a few mods from it.

AlienFromBeyond · Aug 29, 2007, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by KamikazeChicken

When was the last time a monk actually brought a res... waste of a skill slot. And stop saying you can take them... just because you CAN take a skill doesn't mean you should. I could walk around with a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing pet all the time, but that's a pointless and stupid thing to do. I guess people like you don't really care about that. No wonder the skill level of a PUG is in the toilet.

This isn't PvP, having a res is very useful.

allience · Aug 29, 2007, 10:36 PM // 22:36

in fact it's stupid to use rez sig on a monk. either way in gwen if u team whipe u just rez at the nearest shrine.

LumpOfCole · Aug 29, 2007, 10:42 PM // 22:42

I wonder if the Asuran "Summon" skills will benefit extra from Ritualist Spawning Power

AlienFromBeyond · Aug 29, 2007, 10:52 PM // 22:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

Asura Skills >>>>>>>>>> Norn Skills. Maybe also most skills of the Ebon Vanguard.

For everyone. Not only for Casters.

While I am a big fan of the brutish hulks and their stupidity, beat that:

Asuran Scan (Hex): 5 energy and low recharge.
75% more damage to target for 12 seconds

Pain Inverter (Hex): All damage over 50 that you take gets redirected to hexed foe.

Pfffffffffffft! Can it become easier? HM becomes LM (laugh mode).

Yes, because it sure will be easy to cast those a lot as a Warrior

.

GloryFox · Aug 30, 2007, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Allow me to give an example of something any monk can run and still use a Norn skill.

16 Divine
13 Protection
NORN
Sunspear 9

Blessed Light (Condition and Hex removal)
Seed of Life (about 14 seconds 32 healing per hit to entire party That’s 32 more healing across the party than if Divine was at 13 Prot was 16)
Arcane Echo (used for Seed of Life)
Blessed Aura
Protective Spirit (very long duration)
Reversal of Fortune (@ 13 its only 7 hp less than if you had 16 prot, 13 div.)
Res
Norn Option.

This build has damage mitigation party heals hex removal condition removal a res (of course some groups are so leet that they don't need it) this leaves room for a shout such as "Finish Him".

Personally I think having a party with 8 "Finish Him" skills in it will end most encounters very quickly. How can this be a bad thing. Less of an encounter less time monking.

BTW at first glance this build seems energy heavy but from experience its not because two proper Seed of Life castings will allow you to conserve your casting energy for Blessed Light or other spell needs.

and of course never forget your +20% enchantment item.

Oh! Please! One less redundant prot skill won't break the party. Give me a break this is PvE for crying out loud.

Kha · Aug 30, 2007, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by KamikazeChicken

When was the last time a monk actually brought a res... waste of a skill slot.

A PvE monk without a res? Wow...

Quote:

Originally Posted by KamikazeChicken

I don't enjoy smiting, gimped builds, and idiots such as yourself.

Pretty sad you have to taint this thread with your close-minded views and personal attacks to others. And this thread is such an interesting dicussion too.

Back to the topic...

I just hope Asuran skills aren't too godly. I still like some challenge to PvE. I really look forward to the summons though. I wish there were more

I had always hoped there'd be a summoner class. I guess this is better than nothing

Evilsod · Aug 30, 2007, 12:46 AM // 00:46

They already sound unbalanced... just grab a Mesmer with 16 Illusion, Signet of Illusion, 3 Summon skills and Serpents Quickness. They may only have 1 skill, but if you've got 2 or 3 people casting them you can theoretically end up with an spellcasting army + minions and just steamroll everything.

KamikazeChicken · Aug 30, 2007, 12:58 AM // 00:58

Off topic: Monks can't res mid battle, so they don't really need a hard res. If they're having that much trouble in GW PvE to have giant party wipes, maybe that particular monk should take a res skill. Overall, hard res is best kept on other members of the party (splinter barrage, mesmer, ele, whatever).

On topic: Just because you CAN put a PvE-only skill on your bar doesn't mean you should. Walking around drunk with +200 health isn't all that beneficial on a back line character. Walking around as a bear/wolf/raven isn't all that beneficial on a back line character. Any skill that takes a back line character up next to the mob, not such a great idea. Most PvE-only skills are 10+ energy, also not the best choice for a skill that's minimally beneficial to the group, not that I don't expect everyone to take Asurian summon skills for kicks. Stop pretending that groups take third monks in the form of smiters in GW PvE because it's rarely the case. I've already said smiters can get some use, but healing and prot don't.

All people want you to recognize is that Anet neglected heal/prot monks, again, but all you want to do is defend the entirely useless skills the skill lines were given. You might be happy with the half-assed PvE-only skill variety, but I'm not. I don't know how to make you understand that just because you can take these skills... doesn't mean you should.

Mickey · Aug 30, 2007, 01:06 AM // 01:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by KamikazeChicken

You want people to run gimped shit to expand from effective roles, but you still want people to run a tank so your pet survives? FYI, AI usually goes for the W first because it probably has less health. Dire pets tend to be targets quite often.

I don't care how you play. Just because you like to smite, that doesn't mean the other monk skill lines should be left out of PvE-only skills.

When was the last time a monk actually brought a res... waste of a skill slot. And stop saying you can take them... just because you CAN take a skill doesn't mean you should. I could walk around with a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing pet all the time, but that's a pointless and stupid thing to do. I guess people like you don't really care about that. No wonder the skill level of a PUG is in the toilet.

People have different ideas of fun. I don't enjoy smiting, gimped builds, and idiots such as yourself. None of those are even the initial topic because you trolled it into your love of smiting and bonding. Go read up on Fallacy of Composition because you enjoy using it far too often. You can join my ignore list, as soon as I figure out how to add people w/o removing a few mods from it.

1. He didn't say he wanted people to run "gimped shit"
2. You obviously care enough to post about how he is playing
3. HB + Holy Haste + Res Chant = 1 sec res, but only if your running a Healer's Boon Bar
4. Your the one acting like an idiot
5. You can go tell the owner of Starbucks how to make his coffee in the morning now.

[DE] · Aug 30, 2007, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Okay, wow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

"Hey Warrior you suck at killing things!" "Watch this!" (Turns into a Wolf and shreds a few opponents) "Now go rethink your class!".

The wolf norn skill is imba in comparison to warriors, it does constant 70+dmg hits and can easily out damage a warrior in PvE. All you would be doing would be sacrificing your healing to prove something everyone already knows.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

"Finish Him!" FTW, or how about Feel No Pain, yeah kinda hard to bring down a bonder monk with 200 extra hit points and 5 pips of regeneration and 90 more Hit Points for a max Norn title.

Why are you bonding in PvE? It's only necessary in DoA HM and.... DoA HM.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

Wow!, Some people forget that Monks have more than 3 attributes.

Yes but smiting is bad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

You guys need to broaden your thinking a bit. A good Smite (I'm not referring to 55ing) build will have something that has a +20% duration on enchants and use skills such as Shield of Judgment, and BA to use on Pets like I use them for. This allows you to adventure without becoming a redundant Protection / Heal monk who can be easily replaced by HERO's or Henchmen. Norn skills are fine for monks unless your the PvX kind of player who can't think outside of the box. Try being creative with your builds and stop depending on other people to make a build for you or reduce your value as an effective damage dealer.

Yes but smiting is bad.

Oh btw, PvX players use bonders in PvE.

Silly right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

Actualy if you have ever use BA on a Pet you would understand that unlike BA on players Monsters seem to ignore it.

It's called normal mode. Enemies don't scatter nearly as easily.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

A good monk player such as myself can afford to have one or two PvE non Monk skills to assist the party.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

Allow me to give an example of something any monk can run and still use a Norn skill.
*snip*
BTW at first glance this build seems energy heavy but from experience its not because two proper Seed of Life castings will allow you to conserve your casting energy for Blessed Light or other spell needs.

Arcane echo is not necessary. Even if you can conserve your energy extremely well, arcance echo is still a waste of 15e and a skill slot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

Oh! Please! One less redundant prot skill won't break the party. Give me a break this is PvE for crying out loud

PvE is quite easy. It seems the builds some people run make PvE much harder than it should be.

Seriously, give me a break, this is PvE for crying out loud!

RIGHT, ANYWHO: Norn skills have their uses for all classes however they are intended to be used on melee'rs while I'm sure the Asuran skills and a few Ebon Vanguard skills will be MUCH more focused on casters.

Simath · Aug 30, 2007, 01:37 AM // 01:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

Allow me to give an example of something any monk can run and still use a Norn skill.

16 Divine
13 Protection
NORN
Sunspear 9

Blessed Light (Condition and Hex removal)
Seed of Life (about 14 seconds 32 healing per hit to entire party That’s 32 more healing across the party than if Divine was at 13 Prot was 16)
Arcane Echo (used for Seed of Life)
Blessed Aura
Protective Spirit (very long duration)
Reversal of Fortune (@ 13 its only 7 hp less than if you had 16 prot, 13 div.)
Res
Norn Option.

This build has damage mitigation party heals hex removal condition removal a res (of course some groups are so leet that they don't need it) this leaves room for a shout such as "Finish Him".

Personally I think having a party with 8 "Finish Him" skills in it will end most encounters very quickly. How can this be a bad thing. Less of an encounter less time monking.

BTW at first glance this build seems energy heavy but from experience its not because two proper Seed of Life castings will allow you to conserve your casting energy for Blessed Light or other spell needs.

and of course never forget your +20% enchantment item.

Oh! Please! One less redundant prot skill won't break the party. Give me a break this is PvE for crying out loud.

If you need to Arcane Echo Seed of Life the process in which you heal and the effectiveness of your bar need to be reconsidered.

yesitsrob · Aug 30, 2007, 01:41 AM // 01:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kha

A PvE monk without a res? Wow...

If PvE monks didn't bring res things probably wouldn't die in the first place. WOW...

As was said previously, waste of a skill slot.

Keekles · Aug 30, 2007, 01:47 AM // 01:47

I've never put res on my monk bars... Instead I rely on multiple copies of Death Pact Signet on my heroes. :\

Res on my monk's bar = waste. I'm having a hard enough time finding space on my bars for other pve skills, I don't want to worry about a stupid res too.

Simath · Aug 30, 2007, 01:52 AM // 01:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

If PvE monks didn't bring res things probably wouldn't die in the first place. WOW...

As was said previously, waste of a skill slot.

QFT

If more monks ran decent bars there would be no reason for them to carry that "oh so needed" res.

yesitsrob · Aug 30, 2007, 02:03 AM // 02:03

On that note: things will die, and I literally cannot think of a character more unsuited to ressing than a primary monk. Even if running Holy Haste and Healer's Boon.

If you are casting a res, chances are while you are doing this. Everything else is dying. The chances a monk realistically gets to use a res are limited to if your party has wiped, and if your party has wiped, why the hell did you survivie, because you ran away to let them all die?

Bleh whatever, I shouldn't have to explain why it's not smart to gimp your entire bar incase of a party wipe where you happen to be the only survivor

GloryFox · Aug 30, 2007, 02:15 AM // 02:15

Quote:

The wolf norn skill is imba in comparison to warriors, it does constant 70+dmg hits and can easily out damage a warrior in PvE. All you would be doing would be sacrificing your healing to prove something everyone already knows.

The allusion I made was an attempt at humor, form a Monk who intends to gain max Norn ranks. I've even agreed that a form skill on a Healing or Protecting monk was unwise. So no disagreements here.

Quote:

Why are you bonding in PvE? It's only necessary in DoA HM and.... DoA HM.

Hmm Because I bond in HM and DoA?

For 8 Man Monk teams and / or moving form town to town with HERO/ Hench teams I enjoy Smiteing builds ... 8 man monk teams for HM are loads of fun and a challenge to some degree.

Furthermore .....
1) Its less work to control the AI. GW HERO AI attacks what you attack so if you stop attacking and begin healing your party the AI goes down hill. Using Smite skills IS a better option then Prot / Healing / Bonding your henchmen from town to town.
2) Its a nice change of pace from keeping people alive, bonding or normal monking.
3) Don't knock it until you've tried it, It actually does work. I can't tell you how many times I've killed off groups even in Hard Mode with a BA Pet rush, followed up with Smite Enchantment, Smite Healing combo's. This comes from a 2 years veteran of understanding the computer enemy AI. They don't always scatter from the Pets with BA that simply a fact plus they don't heal targets with Smite Heal or Smite Enchantment. Even if they do scatter a short distance they are not attacking you, thus you get free damage on the enemy with no feedback from them.

Quote:

Yes but smiting is bad.
Oh btw, PvX players use bonders in PvE. Silly right?

Thats what most people think but very untrue to the skilled smite monk. About the only suck attribute in the game is communing but thats a different thread.

Change your thinking change your build.

Remember It's not about "you" and "your" build but the "team" build. Smite skills in combo with other skills even Norn skills makes for great attack combo's.

As for Bonders in PvE if thats what players want to do thats fine by me but I've yet to meet a PvE normal mode team that uses one. Except in Elite Missions of course.

Quote:

PvE is quite easy. It seems the builds some people run make PvE much harder than it should be.

Seriously, give me a break, this is PvE for crying out loud!

I agree, so why not spend a redundant slot for some Norn skill on your monk bar if PvE is so easy? Why the fear and hysteria over my comments on Norn skills and monks. Unless you think PvE is so hard you can't afford to spend the slot to enhance the "teams" kill rate. I sure as heck don't think its that hard,

oh and as for the Arcane Echo, usually I place one on the Bonder in the back during hard mode and have one on the Tank, they stack. It's just more redundancy. Even at 0 damage from Life bond, the bonder still triggers SoL for the party. I've also seen some heavy damage in DoA where the Bonder was taking damage since the Armor nerf so it's a just in case type of thing. Otherwise I'd agree with you. BUT HEY that can be a different thread on the topic of SoL placements.

Quote:

If you need to Arcane Echo Seed of Life the process in which you heal and the effectiveness of your bar need to be reconsidered.

I agree but I post it because some need it, or won't think of it. Thus it's redundant, and could be replaced by something else like "I Am Unstoppable!" How can that skill be bad for a monk, please people get a life. These skills are fine for any class including the Monk.