Curse

Vanessa Dwager · Aug 29, 2007, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Thats the thing that got me, obviously Anet made all characters know what a scrying pool is when in all three campaigns theres no way a character could know this. Casters have the best chance to know because they read about magic and stuff like that but warriors? I doubt it.

Lady Lozza · Aug 29, 2007, 10:46 PM // 22:46

Actually Vanessa, I kinda agree with you. My Ritualist knowing how it worked kind of made sense, but when my ranger did it I was laughing - it just seemed wrong

Anyhow, that's just a little off-topic.

As for the Norns and the Dwarves, well the Norns anyway, it is a case of the chicken and the egg really. Here are all the possibilities:

1) Their society might be the way it is because of their physical attributes.
2) Their physical attributes might have developed because they (by nature) CHOOSE to have such a society.
3) Their religion - worship of the bear - might have developed because they had the need for a strong and powerful role model.
4) Their society might have developed because of their worship of the bear - bears aren't really social animals and they are just following their example.
5) Their physical attributes might have developed because they wished to emulate the bear - ie they worked out a lot

The logical solution is possibly a little of all of the above.
It's not that norn society is primitive, only that they ascribe to completely different values. There is a famous theory around that given time all things (society, religion, etc) will evolve into a single perfect form. Oft quoted with amusement because history and social science strongly suggest otherwise.

The norn believe in strength, possibly because they have had to, possibly because they naturally were that way inclined - ie naturally big and always wanting to test their strength. They believe in hunting alone because it is a greater challenge. However they aren't completely stupid, they do hunt in groups for enemies that are far greater than an individual norm. They do form towns, societies, they have trade and crafts, they have religion. What they lack is a clearly defined and identifiable "social structure". This doesn't make them primitive.

HawkofStorms · Aug 29, 2007, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Well, to be fair, I (as in me in RL) knew what a scrying pool was before GW:EN too. Its a semi-common fantasy/magical term that's been used in a lot of games and mediums before. So I mean, if I know about it in the real world, and it doesn't even exist, then surely a RPG character who lives within that world of fantasy would have heard of it too.

Think of it from a real life example... theromodynamic physics. Even though nobody here knows details or the math behind about it, a good number of us have heard the term and have a loose understanding about what it is (just like our RP characters would know about a Scrying Pool).

Lady Lozza · Aug 29, 2007, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Hawk, I'm not saying that my ranger wouldn't know what it was, given the setting of course she would, I just debate her ability to get it to work properly.

If we take common fantasy elements, it's normally cast types who scry, in fact in a lot of stories non-magic types simply can't do it. Of course there are exceptions, and of course being an object of magic itself might not make it necessary for the user to have magical talent - but I just can't see my ranger getting it to work properly, it's uhm... best way to put it might be that it is OOC for her.

thezed · Aug 30, 2007, 12:29 PM // 12:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

Hawk, I'm not saying that my ranger wouldn't know what it was, given the setting of course she would, I just debate her ability to get it to work properly.

If we take common fantasy elements, it's normally cast types who scry, in fact in a lot of stories non-magic types simply can't do it. Of course there are exceptions, and of course being an object of magic itself might not make it necessary for the user to have magical talent - but I just can't see my ranger getting it to work properly, it's uhm... best way to put it might be that it is OOC for her.

The fact that our character can operate the pool is probably less due to their magical abilities and more due to them being "Chosen" or "Acended". We have done some pretty remarkable things, including killing a god. Perhaps the pool was ment for us and no one else.

Lord Juan · Aug 30, 2007, 05:46 PM // 17:46

I believe the norn society turned that way due to their physical strength. We have a few examples of creatures being individualist in the real world, and all of this creatures are usually very strong.

For example I'd like to use the polar bears. The polar bears live and hunt completely alone once they reach certain age, they don't socialize with other polar bears or cooperate between them for, well, anything, other than reproduction.

But, they are very strong creatures with no natural predators, they don't need any help when hunting nor are threaten by other species, so my guess it's their lack of socialization it's because they don't need to socialize for survive (this of course not counting us humans destroying their environment, hehe).

While, on the other hand, creatures that can't survive on their own of course needs more creatures, so they make societies. And we have countless examples of this, wolves who hunt in groups, ants, which are very small but have a very impressive social organization.

So, being the dwarves small creatures, compared to other species, It logical that they create bigger societies than us humans for example, and of course, than norns.

SotiCoto · Aug 30, 2007, 07:12 PM // 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

The norn believe in strength, possibly because they have had to, possibly because they naturally were that way inclined - ie naturally big and always wanting to test their strength. They believe in hunting alone because it is a greater challenge. However they aren't completely stupid, they do hunt in groups for enemies that are far greater than an individual norm. They do form towns, societies, they have trade and crafts, they have religion. What they lack is a clearly defined and identifiable "social structure". This doesn't make them primitive.

"Primitive" doesn't mean "stupid" by any stretch of the imagination... it simply means "longer unchanged"... or "older in its current form".

Norn social structure is more primitive than Dwarven because it is an almost certainly true assumption that Dwarves once had a social structure similar to that of the Norn... as did the humans. The Norn social structure is a construct of natural input on a smaller scale than that of the Dwarves or Humans.
Norns are big fish in a small pond... so to speak... Isolated in the far shiverpeaks and lacking any inclination to move outside that area. They have no competition and thus they have not needed to change their lifestyle as a race.

Cyandroid · Aug 31, 2007, 02:00 AM // 02:00

The Norn's attitude regarding war and combat reminded me of the ancient Gauls or one of the Germanic tribes in Europe during the Roman Empire. They formed armies when necessary, but they did not fight in ranks, they fought as a mob of individual fighters. The reason for this is that they sought personal glory through their prowess in battle. They were said to be fierce warriors individually, but they were not terribly organized, so the more organized Roman armies were eventually able to defeat them...of course they weren't 8 feet tall and able to shape-change into a grizzly bear!