Curse

Seissor · Sep 04, 2007, 02:40 PM // 14:40

I've completed all of Factions except shiro with hench/hero and most of Nightfall the same way. While I approve of new skills given to Henchmen in GW:EN I really have to ask, are heroes and henchmen bugged? Or are they intended to be completely totally and utterly the most idiotic disgracefuly poor excuse for assistance?

I hear "click" "click" "click" "click" "click" "click" "click" "click" "click" "click" all the time in combat, in travel and when idle from them. HONEST TO GOD, WTF ARE THEY DOING? No its not spellbreaker, its not VoS, or Shadow Form its all the time no matter what, no matter what setting etc its so damn annoying WTF brought on this immediate lapse of intelligence?

Dont bother taking Herta, apart from SS there's no use for wards as heroes always and without failure kite OUTSIDE them.

Forget Mhenlo its lucky if he'll actually use LoD when you're whole team is dying.

I am sick of the incompentence the absolute downright disparity between enemy AI and hero/hench AI. The Charr move in formation, tanks up front, squishies in the back, the Hero/Henchmen run as one single unit, they apper as one green blip on radar. How is easy is it for the enemy to kill them? As easy as deep freeze - maelstorm whole party dropped in under 3 seconds gg.

I just did Shards of Orr with an MM and a Wammo tank who relies on inflicting conditions on flesh creatures, I passed! No huge issues, yes, passed with the wrong builds.

I try again with a daze epidemic ranger, NO mm but instead a smite monk and I get whipped out in under 10 seconds. I never realised blinding eles could totally drop SF eles. Can someone explain why the hero AI chooses to kite into traps, into more enemies and avoid wards? Is it a bug or is it just they are useless?

Im freaking serious the allied AI chooses the WORST response to every situation whereas the enemy AI is semi-competent.

Meteor shower those charr, ooh got one, oohh one ran off ohh the rest got out of it. Meanwhile Cynn and Mhenlo skip around singing merrily in an enemies firestorm while Tahlkora demonstrates the benefits of kiting outside of wards.

Can we PLEASE get the Hero/Henchmen AI looked at? Eles forgetting to use attunement, kiting outside of wards, running into traps, removing blind from a caster before a tank/ranger is just the most annoying thing ever. And the constant "click" "click" "click" of broken spells when there's clearly nothing preventing spells from being completed.

I know Hero/Hench have never been all too bright but it seems since GW:EN they got just that little more incappable and now every so often all I hear is "click" "click" "click" "click" and there's no enemies nearby, no hexes/conds/area effects on the team.

I mean I love GW:EN it's a great expansion and most aspects of it are a real step forwards, even a huge leap forwards, but the AI is sooo incredibly bugged and always chooses the wrong move/skill/position.

And no, replying with "duh play with people" isnt a valid arguement, there is a problem with the AI it needs to be fixed. If the roads were potholed and someone said omg this is crazy, you dont say, duuuhhhh buy a helicopter and fly then. There's a problem and it needs to be addressed, it is spoiling an otherwise outstanding Expansion.

Angra · Sep 04, 2007, 02:52 PM // 14:52

Chuckled at. And then signed.

There is a grand disparity in between the hero/enemy AI's. But at least they try to move out of AoE now. After 3 seconds. But w/e.

SotiCoto · Sep 04, 2007, 02:54 PM // 14:54

Selective attention.

I'm thinking you're just seeing the worst of what they're doing and ignoring the best.

A few bad experiences.

I mean heroes suck at some things, and expecting them to be good at it is ridiculous given the scope of what they have to account for. Other things they happen to do well at though... like Interrupting.
They aren't mind-readers though. They work on comparitively simple programming compared to live players... and you can't force them to work outside that programming.

I imagine you're just having difficulty because the Hero AI hasn't been made to cope with the new smartarse monster skills in Eye of the North.

Bryant Again · Sep 04, 2007, 02:54 PM // 14:54

I think I've only seen the "click click click" by an enemy.

Soooo...can't complain on my side, hehe.

Big_Iron · Sep 04, 2007, 03:05 PM // 15:05

I've noticed a considerable drop in hero/henchie AI in GW:EN. Yeah, I finished it using nothing but heroes and henchies, but there's no question in my mind that it's either dumbed down or bugged. It's simple stuff like eles managing their energy or getting out of an AoE storm or not stand in molten lava, just to name a few of examples. And don't get me started on Vekk tanking even when you have him on guard.

korcan · Sep 04, 2007, 03:07 PM // 15:07

ive had some minor problems with hero ai aswell. my casters never seem to want to cast spells from the edge of enemy aggro circles anymore. now, they LEEROY right up to enemies before casting spells. doh

and my warder always puts up the wrong wards. its just aggravating to see ward of elements up when we run into a group of melee and vice versa. oh wellz.

malko050987 · Sep 04, 2007, 03:10 PM // 15:10

I don't have much of a problem... but I use Jora as a tank and usually flag everybody else back.

Esan · Sep 04, 2007, 03:11 PM // 15:11

You notice the bad but not the good. The heroes and henchmen presumably win the vast majority of battles. They can't, therefore, be that bad.

I agree about the uselessness of Herta, however. Never bring *storm if you like controlling your aggro.

Zexion · Sep 04, 2007, 03:14 PM // 15:14

Herta using Ward Against Elements when fighting 2 warriors. Enough said!

_Zexion

Well99 · Sep 04, 2007, 03:24 PM // 15:24

The hero AI is goofed up.Also had problem with eles skills for some reason.Might be a new spell but it is like a ranger loseing a pet.Mine get wiped for a short time and some spells just wont work at times even with enough energy.I try a different spell it will work.Wierd.

SotiCoto · Sep 04, 2007, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Heroes can't "look" at the enemy and "judge" what the best skills to use are.

Herohench don't recognise enemies as individual units with qualities. They certainly can't judge Class by the looks of it. They respond to certain conditions of the environment in very basic ways... then account for additional conditions on skills on top of that.

They can tell which enemy is nearest, but they don't know what it is nor what skill it is using. They can tell which enemy you're targeting and interrupt it if it happens to be casting any spell with more than a half second cast time, but can't tell if the enemy behind it is about to cast meteor shower.

They are very limited in their capabilities.... and they certainly can't account for the bizarre enemies in Eye of the North... nor such bizarre effects as the Norn effect giving extra health and whatnot. Little wonder they have difficulty sometimes.

pakhavit · Sep 04, 2007, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Well I personally use h&h all the time,

You can control 3 hero so that's you and 3 you can control

If you said hero stupid and use a wrong skill, you can always disable

and control it yourself, If your hench stand in aoe you can always flag them

out, it's all on your skill, they just a computer you need to order them

hero and hench is a part of you, it's not a second person that you should

expect to do it correctly

Well I think At least Hench in Gwen got a lot Better skill

I love Cynn meteo shower xD

Amorfati87 · Sep 04, 2007, 03:31 PM // 15:31

I have noticed all the "click, click, click" and damn is that annoying.

Jora gets stuck sometimes, she runs back and forth between me and the enemies when I'm using my ranger. I believe it's because I am shooting the enemy while I am outside of their aggro circle so she doesn't know if she should stay or go.

Mhenlo is now a tank. A monk tank. And I've been getting more and more upset with him as the weekend continued. He would run out in front of every single mob and take the first hit....ALWAYS. Everytime he'd die I'd just mumble that's what happens when monks tank. But I guess I'm the dummy because I kept right on bringing him along.

I finally get up to the Heart of the Shiverpeaks quest and Cyndr the incredibly large wurm that spews fire and hates my necro character with a passion. Anyway, doing this quest, I'm having lots of difficulties moving around and dropping the bombs, trying to put SV on her. I wind up dying while Cyndr is at half health, followed by all the heroes henches except for Olias, Livia and Mhenlo. I'm sure failure is upon me when I see Mhenlo standing right next to Cyndr like he's posing for a picture.

Much to my surprise, Mhenlo stood next to the wurm, taking all the damage, and healing himself, while Livia and Olias layed on the hexes. A few minutes later Cyndr was no more and I was getting the prize box, and I was still DEAD.

Kinda sad to realize that sometimes the heroes and henchies don't even need a live party member to play the game.

flettir · Sep 04, 2007, 03:33 PM // 15:33

i think we got off track.
this isn't about how stupid heroes are in general, that's taken for granted. the topic's title implies that the author thinks that the hero ai got messed up by GW:EN and they got even stupider.

personally, i completely disagree. Yes, they've had their moments, but they always do. now i find that they DO move out of AoE (spirit rift for example), respond to flags quickly enough, and "judge" things as well as they always do.
my eternal problem, one that has been around since the start of heroes, is that when my tank's getting pummeled and dunky rushes forward to save him, the first thing he casts is vigorous spirit =/ useful utility when the tank's fine, not when he's got a second to live.

but again, this has nothing to do with GW:EN...I find no changes from before.

oh, as for more complex monster ai, i believe part of this is becuase the monsters have a set skillbar, and semi-individual pieces of ai code can be written bearing those skills in mind. heroes however can have any 8 skills you choose, so the game has to balance all 8 of those skills at each moment.

Zexion · Sep 04, 2007, 03:55 PM // 15:55

I never noticed her using the wrong ward consistently prior to GWEN.

_Zexion

SotiCoto · Sep 04, 2007, 04:02 PM // 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zexion

I never noticed her using the wrong ward consistently prior to GWEN.

_Zexion

I never noticed her using wards at all prior to GW:EN.
I just brought her along for the Sandstorm... and to be honest most of Nightfall was a walk in the park.

IslandHermet · Sep 04, 2007, 04:06 PM // 16:06

I agree that hero and hench AI is Very bugged My Zed AKA Donkey Thinks he is A toucher he uses a very simple fire build SF, no close range aoe and uses a Hourglass Staff But every target i ping he runs right up to and than casts which makes no sense cause he is not a frickin toucher i have gotten soo mad at him i dont use him anymore which is sad cause i love my donkey but ANET FIX THE HERO RETARD BUG

tenshi_strife · Sep 04, 2007, 04:07 PM // 16:07

i concur but the biggest problem i have run into is my heros going on strike, yea thats right not casting at all..... im sitting there dieing and the rest of my team is dieing i open up tahls and dunks hero bar and guess what not a single spell has been cast -.-..... i agree the ai on heros and henchman have become RETARDED, i wonder if this is a poor attempt at making people group with humans....

SotiCoto · Sep 04, 2007, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenshi_strife

i concur but the biggest problem i have run into is my heros going on strike, yea thats right not casting at all..... im sitting there dieing and the rest of my team is dieing i open up tahls and dunks hero bar and guess what not a single spell has been cast -.-..... i agree the ai on heros and henchman have become RETARDED, i wonder if this is a poor attempt at making people group with humans....

Would the fact that they can't manage their energy have anything to do with it?

Herohench can't tell if they have "low energy". They don't know that they can't cast a spell until they try to cast it and it won't bloody work due to lack of energy.... so then they just sit there and wait for the energy to come back.
If they're not casting and still have full energy though then yeah.... something has gone seriously buggy... I recommend Ctrl+Shift+Spacing a whole lot.

Croco Clouds · Sep 04, 2007, 04:54 PM // 16:54

For some reason I often saw Cynn tanks while fighting the Destroyers after I pull the mobs. Jora does the same thing as well. Guess it's their bad temper heh