Curse

malko050987 · Sep 04, 2007, 10:02 AM // 10:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

I'm not sure I'm going to fail, but neither am I sure I'm going to succeed... which is what really matters. I need to know what I'm getting into before I get into it. If not, then I could end up wasting several hours of my precious time pratting about in a dungeon at 60% death penalty before finally being forced to give up.... and that makes me VERY bitter.

Of course.

What do you take me for? Some Leeroy Wammo who charges into everything head-first and bounces about wildly until I die or win by pure luck?
No.
I plan. I try to account for what I'll need to get through the area as cleanly and efficiently as possible first time... with no repetitions needed. I want to see the sights, kill the monsters, pick up the loot and leave. I win my wars with minimal losses.
I do NOT appreciate having my time wasted by constant dying and failed plans due to an inability to effectively counter everything I'm coming up against.
I don't like to do things by trial and error, but by precise calculation... and as far as I'm concerned, if that isn't possible then something is seriously wrong.

But then to me all of this goes without saying.
Why.... Do you go into that dungeon the first time DESIRING your own failure?
Somehow... I think not.

Well, when I went into the Dungeon in the preview, it was easy. So, after GWEN came out, I went in again, to see if there were any changes.

Well, there were. And I had 60DP most of the way, but I beat it in the end, and I had a really crap team setup, with one useless hero and two henchies who spent 80% of the time in corpse form.

So, you could probably beat it if you use common sense.

shogun avatar · Sep 04, 2007, 10:06 AM // 10:06

Fun and not so hard run imho.
My team:
1x warrior (me) -> ursan blessing, death's charge
1 hero monk
1 hero MM
1 hero nuker
2 hench monks
1 hench ele (cyn = meteor shower)
1 hench ranger (zho = broad head arrow)

I charge in and activate blessing, norns and minions body block while nuker do their magic. ranger keeps wurms dazed, monks keep us alive

like i said. fun, and amusing run. took me 40 min to complete. done it 3 times. got 3 diamonds, 2 onyx and 1 green hammer (that's 1 ugly fish)

pork soldier · Sep 04, 2007, 10:18 AM // 10:18

lern2 longbow pull in the first room, then just kill everything. Easy as pie, takes ~5 minutes.

rohara · Sep 04, 2007, 10:18 AM // 10:18

been using a setup like this with a couple guildies:

- 1 water ele (ward against harm, maelstrom, blurred vision, etc)
- 1 earth ele (ward of stability, ward against elements, sandstorm, etc)
- 1 fire ele (savannah heat, meteor shower, etc)
- 2 monks, we mistakenly ran 2 lod's at the same time but it worked fine
- 2 choking gas/practiced stance rangers
- 1 degen/interrupt/clumsiness mesmer

maybe we go a little overboard on the wards and interrupts...but we hadn't played since the preview and weren't sure how much harder it was after the update. that got us through to frostmaw rather easily (except for the jotuns, they're mean bastards). taking out frostmaw and his cronies, however, was rather difficult. we probably would have lost if he hadn't bugged out and stopped attacking lol

SotiCoto · Sep 04, 2007, 11:00 AM // 11:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by malko050987

Well, when I went into the Dungeon in the preview, it was easy. So, after GWEN came out, I went in again, to see if there were any changes.

Well, there were. And I had 60DP most of the way, but I beat it in the end, and I had a really crap team setup, with one useless hero and two henchies who spent 80% of the time in corpse form.

So, you could probably beat it if you use common sense.

So people keep saying.
I decided not to go in there during the preview event because I was more concerned with farming Norn Faction at that stage.... I should have done it... but it is too late for that now.

Even so... I don't get much time in a day to play Guild Wars any more... so about how long would it take?
And difficulty-wise.... how does it compare to the Sepulchure of Dragimmar (the only dungeon I've been through so far)?

malko050987 · Sep 04, 2007, 12:05 PM // 12:05

Well, with a good team setup you can do it in around 2 hours, probablya bit less.

Difficulty-wise, it's harder than the Sepulchre. Lots of ele mobs, especially in the first chamber. Also, there are waaaay too many wurm pops. Advance slowly, and try to lure the mobs towards you with a longbow/flatbow. Otherwise the Norns will charge ahead and aggro everything on the radar.

SetsunaSamurai · Sep 04, 2007, 12:16 PM // 12:16

The only hard part about Frostmaw's is the Mandragora hordes. Everything else is a breeze, especially the boss.

Devious Immortal · Sep 04, 2007, 12:29 PM // 12:29

This is my team build. The screenie was taken on our first attempt in preview week-end. We did it without too many deaths. After the the full release we went again. We had few moments of touch and go but we made it in the end. In the last room there are now more worms popups then before I think.

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...2006/gw034.jpg

SotiCoto · Sep 04, 2007, 12:47 PM // 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by malko050987

Well, with a good team setup you can do it in around 2 hours, probablya bit less.

Difficulty-wise, it's harder than the Sepulchre. Lots of ele mobs, especially in the first chamber. Also, there are waaaay too many wurm pops. Advance slowly, and try to lure the mobs towards you with a longbow/flatbow. Otherwise the Norns will charge ahead and aggro everything on the radar.

-_-;

I don't deal too well with elementalist mobs.
Lemme guess... Chromatic Drakes with Sliver Armour and their Mind Elites... Frozen Elementals with their damnable Blurred Vision... No place for an Assassin at all.
I imagine my own Elementalist would do far better with his Ward Against Harm set-up... though if they're all Water Ele like him then I suspect even that won't work too well. Best invest in some actual Water Ele armour (rather than his current kit which is flame-resistant).

Doesn't help my Assassin much in any case.
I suppose he can wail on the wurms. They're usually easy prey.

Do the Norns need to survive... incidentally?

Squishy ftw · Sep 04, 2007, 12:47 PM // 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by malko050987

Well, with a good team setup you can do it in around 2 hours, probablya bit less.

Difficulty-wise, it's harder than the Sepulchre. Lots of ele mobs, especially in the first chamber. Also, there are waaaay too many wurm pops. Advance slowly, and try to lure the mobs towards you with a longbow/flatbow. Otherwise the Norns will charge ahead and aggro everything on the radar.

I'd rather say about 1 hr. Only challening part to me were those annoying mandragors

. If our party gets whiped, it's because of them.
And setup: W, 3x Mo, 1x MM(virulence), 1x SS, 2x SF nukers

malko050987 · Sep 04, 2007, 12:59 PM // 12:59

I had no problems with the Mandragors, actually. It was the Jotun that kept destroying my party.

And there are Avalanches as well >.<

SotiCoto · Sep 04, 2007, 01:11 PM // 13:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by malko050987

I had no problems with the Mandragors, actually. It was the Jotun that kept destroying my party.

And there are Avalanches as well >.<

... I can solo Jotun (only issue being the occasional stomp).... and Avalanches for that matter (the rest of my party don't like them much though, so I make a beeline for Avalanches first to neutralise the threat).

I guess we all have different strengths and weaknesses.
Mandragors don't cause me that much trouble, despite their condition-spam. They die quickly, and only Blindness can stop me rampaging through them.
I can gub Whisps with ease. No problem there.
Wurms die easily enough, though I don't like getting the Bile on me. Nasty new addition that is.

It is the Chromatic Drakes I can't stand... and the Frozen Elementals are dangerous in large enough numbers (though a small few are no problem).
Just fighting those Chromatic Drakes brings back my horrible nightmares of the dreaded Star Ancient Koosun... I HATE Sliver Armor...
As for the Elementals... Blurred Vision messes up my comboing unpleasantly, but enough Deep Freeze spam can do a number on my party...

jiggerjay · Sep 04, 2007, 01:12 PM // 13:12

the norn if they die get back up eventually afaik like killroy.

A11Eur0 · Sep 04, 2007, 01:22 PM // 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

Didn't you pay attention to the rest of what I was saying?

People complain about the lack of Hard Mode in Eye of the North.... so assuming they're planning to add it eventually, it is only right that there be some divergence between the two... and Normal Mode be not quite as tough. If there were no difference between them then what the heck is the point in making the change?

Unlike some of you folk, I do NOT like challenge.
I am a perfectionist.
I am not a gambler.
I am not a risk-taker.
If I cannot do something perfectly then I can't be satisfied I've done it right... and I cannot do it perfectly if it is made to be a "challenge", as there is far greater chance of failure.
If I cannot clear the entire dungeon of enemies without dying, then chances are it will only irritate me to have to go ahead with it... and there is no question of "have to"... as I need to complete everything. "Challenges" and "Elite Areas" only interfere with my ability to do everything in the game and leave me feeling poorly equipped and inadequate to the task... which is not entertaining in the slightest.
Quite why anyone wants to be "challenged" is completely beyond me, as I think it is an inane and utterly ridiculous desire.... but... whatever.
I can just about feel some semblence of completion if I can get through everything in Normal Mode... Let me have that much at least.

Why dont we just find you a code that gives you every green in the game, masters completion and every single title track out there...since you're a lazy tard who doesn't like to work for something.

Sure, just make an Easy mode with all level 5's and ecto dropping from every enemy and let us people who like to feel "in the game" rather than just spending time clicking and pressing buttons play normal and hard mode.

Dude, you know how spoiled you sound?

malko050987 · Sep 04, 2007, 01:34 PM // 13:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiggerjay

the norn if they die get back up eventually afaik like killroy.

They are ressurected when there are no more enemies in their aggro range. I think you have to be close to them as well, or they stay dead. Not sure on this one, though.

Holz · Sep 04, 2007, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Does this dungeon give you the best reward in GW:EN? If no, what other dungeon gives better/more rewards? Thanks.

malko050987 · Sep 04, 2007, 01:54 PM // 13:54

All dungeons usually give diamons/onyx and a weapon. I got a green from Raven's Point, and golds from the other Norn dungeons. The chance of each is equal, I think.

Of course, each chest probably has items related to the enemy you killed. I got a Destroyer Shield from the Destroyer Chest, by example. You can also get Polymock pieces from any of the chests.

So... if you want to just farm a chest, you can pick the easiest dungeon and farm away. ^_^

SotiCoto · Sep 04, 2007, 01:58 PM // 13:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by A11Eur0

Why dont we just find you a code that gives you every green in the game, masters completion and every single title track out there...since you're a lazy tard who doesn't like to work for something.

Sure, just make an Easy mode with all level 5's and ecto dropping from every enemy and let us people who like to feel "in the game" rather than just spending time clicking and pressing buttons play normal and hard mode.

Dude, you know how spoiled you sound?

Dude... do you know how incredibly ignorant you sound?

Not that I expect you care. You either didn't read or completely failed to understand my post.... and because I'm feeling generous I will attempt to reiterate for you:

I have NO problem at all with applying effort to something. I am not the "lazy tard" you take me for. I farm on a regular basis to fund my gaming. I grind for title points without so much as a hint of complaint. Pure stubborn effort is NO problem for me provided I know it will get results.

I just don't appreciate having my time wasted by failed attempts. I hate having to repeat myself ad infinitum, half breaking my fingers in the process, learning and experiencing nothing new...
Hard Mode, short of its farming usefulness, is like jumping out of an aeroplane with a bedsheet instead of a parachute: only fun if you enjoy the distinct probability that you're going to fail. No matter how much you plan it, it has by definition been made more risky and thus countered the planning process.... which entirely defeats the purpose of the exercise. It takes utter concentration on a downright painful level just to make it through, which subtracts cosmically from having the freedom of the experience.

By all means prat around in your Hard Mode with your numbers, button-pressing and clicking.... and leave Normal Mode to those of us who actually like to feel IN the game.
As far as I'm concerned... more content for the game means actually making new enemies that function differently and an explanation behind that difference, a plot behind the game and interesting quests to tie it together... It requires something to actually immerse the player IN the game world; NOT just more monsters, higher levels and speeding them up. That isn't fun; that is just annoying. If I wanted a test of my reflexes and how quickly I can exhaust myself then I'd go play football outside (which notably I'm not very good at).

Guild Wars is NOT a sport.
Guild Wars is an online RPG. If you can't play the role because you're too stuck in the numbers then you have no business playing the damned game... let alone criticising me for it. Bugger off to PvP or something if you want to play tag.

malko050987 · Sep 04, 2007, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Well, I personally have no problems with Hard Mode. Some areas are impossible without specific builds, but they are still possible. So it's not a question of wasted effort, but of you not having the skill to make it in those areas.

SotiCoto · Sep 04, 2007, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by malko050987

All dungeons usually give diamons/onyx and a weapon. I got a green from Raven's Point, and golds from the other Norn dungeons. The chance of each is equal, I think.

Of course, each chest probably has items related to the enemy you killed. I got a Destroyer Shield from the Destroyer Chest, by example. You can also get Polymock pieces from any of the chests.

So... if you want to just farm a chest, you can pick the easiest dungeon and farm away. ^_^

That big elemental in Dragimmar only gave me a gold shield from his chest... Nothing else. It was a crap one too. I merched it without a second thought... I only did it to complete the quest... basically. Just as well really.

Quote:

Originally Posted by malko050987

Well, I personally have no problems with Hard Mode. Some areas are impossible without specific builds, but they are still possible. So it's not a question of wasted effort, but of you not having the skill to make it in those areas.

Or the class. I made the choice to make an Assassin as my first character and I have stuck by that. I have tried to find a way to adapt that to the game every step of the way... and sometimes it has been difficult, but I have managed for the most part. Some bits still evade my ability though... and that annoys me.

The real point though is that there is a strong element of luck involved. Even with the best team set-up and an exact knowledge of what is required in each circumstance, tougher enemies and a tougher environment build in an ever-increasing element of uncertainty that I'm not comfortable with. Most of the time I don't even have that.
If I can't put together what I perceive to be a generally strong build and make it through... but rather have to keep dying and changing things constantly until something has some small probability of success.... then I derive NO satisfaction from it. It certainly doesn't help that people are reluctant to help because they don't even understand why a person wouldn't want to kill themselves repeated in the first place... all for the sake of some alien concept called "challenge".
Why do you suppose I don't play PvP? It is too unpredictable, quite aside from the fact that there is no plot-relevance to it. Nobody fights a war for its own sake.

And honestly... there is very little skill in Guild Wars. I'm sure that anyone in the Hall of Heroes teams with any ability to explain themselves objectively could teach me in a very short space of time how to be on a similar level to any one of them.... It is just about knowing the game. The harder you make it, the less there is to know, and the more awkward it becomes to know it.