Curse

Symeon · Sep 09, 2007, 08:35 AM // 08:35

So you complain about needing to 'grind' reputation points to get GW:EN armor, saying that this puts time played above player skill; are you suggesting that we should somehow use our own skills to acquire armor instead? Are you suggesting that previous armors didn't cost anything, therefore you didn't need to farm ('grind') for them at all? That argument makes no sense whatsoever.

Pretty armor gives you no advantage. It's optional. Work for it if you want it, stop expecting everything you want to be handed to you without putting in any effort.

I complete all the quests. I like mapping, so I kill enemies while I run around the GW:EN areas. I do a few dungeons. And hey presto, R5. You need to try harder.

Redfeather1975 · Sep 09, 2007, 08:49 AM // 08:49

Let's not keep saying that the content is optional, so it's not a problem.
Let's instead think of multiple options to access the content that will appeal to a wider variety of players.

Here's my suggestions:

Bring into EotN the commendation/contract items that are rewarded from special quests.
You can have the option to trade a number of commendations/contracts to an NPC to craft 1 weapon or 1 piece of armour or 1 consumable. You still unlock unlimited crafting transactions when you reach rank x.

PVE skills have an optional power level adjustment using one of the profession's attributes. You can either level up all your PVE skills by gaining faction titles, or you can alternatively choose a certain primary or secondary profession and raise the particular attribute to increase the power of the particular PVE skill for a certain build you wish to try out.

Content has more accessibility options, some only offering limited use....but still accessible to a wider variety of players.

Seissor · Sep 09, 2007, 09:20 AM // 09:20

Sorry, i dont want my end game to be go outside, C spacebar, C spacebar, C spacebar, C spacebar, for a day or two to rank up to buy armor. Thats a kinda cheap way to give a game longer playtime at the expensive of quality playtime.

As for the "players want everything NOW and ur all cry babies" rebuttle. What now? The armor still costs money and materials, you dont reach Rank 5, walse into town say ty and walk away with armor. duhhhh you already grinded for the money and materials. and getting R5 in a title is added further grind.

Its like making a race sim and bragging how there's new tracks to play and race on, but you cant do more than 30mph on them. Just to extend gameplay.

Most people arent annoyed with the titles, it's more a case of, we're annoyed with the repeativie clearing of areas to get them. Seriously, its fun for 2-3 hours then its boring and we might as well go play another MMORPG and farm.

As for ppl saying they did missions and quests and didnt farm, voila R5. Well WOW. I have done all areas, done all missions, completed all the sidequests and even cleared areas and it will only net you R4. about 1/5 way into R5. And then wake up and realise you got a bonus of 500 faction for doing missions 1st time and 250-500 for doing sidequests and now THEY ARE GONE, NOT REPEATABLE. Missions are, but not for 500 faction, only 100. Remember pre-seer? WOW lvl 7 in under 3 hours! And the higher the level the slower the advancement.

BlackSephir · Sep 09, 2007, 12:22 PM // 12:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Symeon

So you complain about needing to 'grind' reputation points to get GW:EN armor, saying that this puts time played above player skill; are you suggesting that we should somehow use our own skills to acquire armor instead? Are you suggesting that previous armors didn't cost anything, therefore you didn't need to farm ('grind') for them at all? That argument makes no sense whatsoever.

How can I suggest that players should use their own skills instead, that's horrible idea! Pressing c, space and repeating is so much better.

Quote:

Are you suggesting that previous armors didn't cost anything

I don't remember grinding for titles to even be able to craft that damned thing, do you?

Quote:

Pretty armor gives you no advantage. It's optional.

I think I commented about this whole "optional" talk in my previous post, care to read?

Quote:

I complete all the quests. I like mapping, so I kill enemies while I run around the GW:EN areas. I do a few dungeons. And hey presto, R5. You need to try harder.

All I hear is "grind more"
Wow, that's magical. I did all the Ebon Vanguard quest, dungeons, I killed mobs and guess what? R3. So what to do if you want to get R5.
Oh yeah, grind

Ah, one more thing- do people really think that 'special' GWEN armour should be so easily obtainable? I thought they wanted a challenge?
Whoops I forgot- try not to fall asleep while grinding R5, now THAT'S challenge

Stolen Souls · Sep 09, 2007, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Symeon

So you complain about needing to 'grind' reputation points to get GW:EN armor, saying that this puts time played above player skill; are you suggesting that we should somehow use our own skills to acquire armor instead?

Naw, you're right...grind is sooo much better than skill. *rolls eyes*

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Symeon

Are you suggesting that previous armors didn't cost anything, therefore you didn't need to farm ('grind') for them at all? That argument makes no sense whatsoever.

The previous armor DID cost something...gold + materials. And guess what...they STILL cost gold + materials....PLUS grind to be able to craft them. As if farming alone wasn't a bore in itself, now there's additional grind on top of it, GG. And before anyone says "you can make the gold for it while you grind"...BS.

Adding this grind to artificially lengthen gameplay was a crappy, cheap way to go about doing things. There was a time where GW could boast that it was an MMO with no grind. Then it went to having very little grind, to some grind. Now grinding is required to get armor.

mscobra · Sep 09, 2007, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redfeather1975

According to Strain, one of the main advantages to using a non-subscription model for an online rpg game is that people can more easily play multiple games and quit playing GW, enjoy another game and then come back when a new GW game is released. Anet isn't trying to put a stranglehold on gamers to exclusively play their game.
The farming faction aspect was introduced because there seem to be a lot of gamers who want to only play Guild Wars and they want to continue to develop their characters for extended amounts of time. Although I think they went a little too far with some of these 'time sink' to reward options in the game. I know for a fact that if there were absolutely no rewards in Guild Wars people would think it insane to be expected to collect 250 of x or clear out entire zones for nothing in return, because those activities are not really enjoyable. It's only the anticipation of being rewarded that gives many players the tolerance to endure such repetitive activities.

So, are you defending an expansion that is way too short and lacks content, one were quality was replaced with a grind?

lord dragon · Sep 09, 2007, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

People should stop deluding themselves. Guild Wars has always had grind.

Ever wanted something special, something moderately to extremely high-end? The only guarantee you ever had to get it, was to grind. Grind grind grind until it drops for you, or grind grind grind to make enough gold to buy it. Grind grind grind for your nifty rank emote, grind for ectoplasm, grind for obsidian, grind for that elusive perfect req 8 brute sword. Whatever struck your fancy, if it wasn't common as muck, you had to grind for it.

The difference is, grind now has a name: titles. And guess what, it's still just as optional as the grind of old that I just mentioned. Just play the game, and every basic bit of content will come to you without grinding, in GW:EN more so than in most chapters.

When you are talking, not what you can buy or not buy, but skills added to it, it does unbalance the game. The options are grind, or play by yourself. For me, both are not worth doing. I came to an MMO to play with people. I know some who like to play by themselves and agree they should have the option. I didn't buy the game for the single player aspect of it. So, it is either grind away to get skills that teams are asking for, or play by myself, or leave. None of those options are apealing to me.

Please remember...

I must not GRIND. GRIND is the mind-killer. GRIND is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my GRIND... I will permit it to pass over me and through me.

TabascoSauce · Sep 09, 2007, 10:54 PM // 22:54

No, I think the real answer is support those who have supported ANet by buying extra character slots and extra accounts. The best way to do that is to make the titles account-wide.

Doing the game x10 is - "more game".

Grind for points after by clearing mobs in areas x10 is - "grind".

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

lord dragon · Sep 09, 2007, 11:04 PM // 23:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inger

You are acting like GW:EN is FORCING you to repeatedly go out and kill monsters over and over again with that sole purpose in mind. Grind in GW:EN is EAAAAAAAAAASSSSSY. If you go out and just play the main storyline and complete the game you WILL get AT LEAST rank 3 in all the different titles. That is just from playing normally, not going out of ur way to specifically go out in a zone and just kill monsters. Once u add in also doing the quests and heck rank 4-5 is just as easily attained. The PVE skills are the only thing influencing PVE however these skills are very good at ranks 2-3, once u get to 4-5 they are useable in any high lvl area. The difference beyond lvl 5 is very negligible.

You say that as more time goes by higher and higher ranks of titles will be desired in pugs, well guess what, as time passes ur titles are gonna go up too

. IT just happens as u play the game normally the only way they won't is if u deliberately go and avoid npc point givers.

And what does that bottom thing about grind u keep adding even mean?!

I never said it wasn't easy, I said it was mindless dribble for the masses that believe that a title in a video game actually means something. As for playing GWEN, I did. It was the most boring of the releases to date. I put the price down to the price of a couple of bad movies that didn't last as long. Sort of like looking at static on a television. Now, with that said, I still had the other areas of the game to play and decided to just do that. Now this is changing because of the skills coming in from GWEN. So, as I have said before. I can GRIND my way in a senseless way to a title that I will never be interested in to get a skill that a PUG wants, or I can play the game solo. Both are not valid options for me.

As for my signature. It is a quote from DUNE. It means. Grind is the killer of the game. It will destroy your mind of creativity. It has snuck in the game like a thief in the night and started to rot GW. I have seen to many leave GW lately. This is ashame. Now for the grinder who hero and heches it, no loss. For Anet, they already made thier money on the game, so if people leave after, it is to thier advantage, less equipment to run. So....

Please remember...

I must not GRIND. GRIND is the mind-killer. GRIND is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my GRIND... I will permit it to pass over me and through me.

Gli · Sep 09, 2007, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord dragon

When you are talking, not what you can buy or not buy, but skills added to it, it does unbalance the game. The options are grind, or play by yourself.

Rubbish.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord dragon

For me, both are not worth doing. I came to an MMO to play with people. I know some who like to play by themselves and agree they should have the option. I didn't buy the game for the single player aspect of it. So, it is either grind away to get skills that teams are asking for, or play by myself, or leave. None of those options are apealing to me.

More rubbish. You could perhaps play with people who aren't obsessing over a pointless extra level in a skill?

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord dragon

Please remember...

I must not GRIND. GRIND is the mind-killer. GRIND is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my GRIND... I will permit it to pass over me and through me.

It wasn't clever the first time, and I don't think the repetition is growing on anyone.

LifeInfusion · Sep 09, 2007, 11:33 PM // 23:33

trying to compete with wow in a grind-based MMO market is like hitting your head on a wall.

GW wasn't made with grind in mind, which is why it is crazy to think they should add grind to compete with WOW.

Jeff Strain said GW wasn't made to compete with WoW in his latest discussion on MMO business models.

Bryant Again · Sep 09, 2007, 11:47 PM // 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

More rubbish. You could perhaps play with people who aren't obsessing over a pointless extra level in a skill?

Lol, gl with that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

It wasn't clever the first time, and I don't think the repetition is growing on anyone.

I think it's his sig more than anything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

trying to compete with wow in a grind-based MMO market is like hitting your head on a wall.

GW wasn't made with grind in mind, which is why it is crazy to think they should add grind to compete with WOW.

Jeff Strain said GW wasn't made to compete with WoW in his latest discussion on MMO business models.

See in P2P MMO's I expect grind, and don't really mind it. They'll try whatever they can to "drain" the money out of you (depends on your financial situation, of course). With Guild Wars, it feels like a "last resort" more than anything. Not that I really mind, since I don't look at it like an MMO, but since other people do have that mindset, it can be a problem.

Darlichay Dalinar · Sep 09, 2007, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Symeon

Pretty armor gives you no advantage. It's optional.

True, but it's been a big part of ANET's advocation in the game's sales. This has been terribly moved into for GW:EN and by giving a grind for said optional-yet-advocated items is... a poor display.

Sure, we have a year to gain said armors and items. Maybe we're slamming our heads into a wall by doing so much so quickly (some of us) but all the same we do like to be different, at least for a little while...

I mean, I play a dervish 95% of the time, and so many run around in primeval. I would love to be different and love to have something that kind of stood out, and so outside the money grind, I had to get points like I did for sunspear and Lightbringer... Dumb.

Moving on... And sorry if I was confusing.

Crotalus · Sep 09, 2007, 11:59 PM // 23:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Symeon

Pretty armor gives you no advantage.

Exactly! Unlike skills which can make or break a battle those fancy skins will not. You can beat Shiro without 'Spoil Victor' but he goes down easier with that skill. (That is just one example)

The Guild Wars community has stated time and time again that to obtain all the skills in one campaign, one must grind(farm). Anet has backed up the communities wishes. Do you honestly think that for the optional armor and weapons Anet will remove the grind while allowing the important content(skills) to have grind? If that happens then Anet fails at game design.

I am not trying to turn this into skill acquisition QQ thread but to show that if Anet (and the community) is unwilling to remove the grind for skills, an important piece of content, then it would be out of the question to ask them to remove grind for an optional piece of content, armor and weapons.

If you don't like the grind for either optional or important content then don't support Anet in Guild Wars 2. It is very much apparent that they are catering to the grind monkeys in GW:EN which will most likely translate into GW2.

Mac Sidewinder · Sep 10, 2007, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord dragon

As for my signature. It is a quote from DUNE. It means. Grind is the killer of the game. It will destroy your mind of creativity. It has snuck in the game like a thief in the night and started to rot GW. I have seen to many leave GW lately. This is ashame. Now for the grinder who hero and heches it, no loss. For Anet, they already made thier money on the game, so if people leave after, it is to thier advantage, less equipment to run.

I don't like "grind" anymore than the next person but you ought to think about what you say before you post. Do you really think that Anet's plan was to make everybody pissed off so they would quit playing the game? How is this advantagous to them in any way? Less money for equipment? Come on. I'm sure they try to make the best game they can to keep their fan base up as high as possible. They miss the mark once in a while (like this expansion) but i'm pretty sure they're not trying to commit suicide by driving everyone away.

If you're disapointed, that's understandable, but at least try to make intelligent comments.

IlikeGW · Sep 10, 2007, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Guild Wars has always had secret grinding. They just dress it up different ways but lately they forgot to put clothes on it.

=HT=Ingram · Sep 10, 2007, 08:37 AM // 08:37

This is true, and its a continuing movement of any game anymore. heck look at games like BF2? a traditional FPS right? well yea, but it also has grind in it for ranks and unlocks that give the long term player advantages over others. Again this is a mentality thing that the developers reward the people that play more with something, but its not necessary to enjoy the game if you don't do it either... I use this comparison only for example of unusual and generally unexpected grind in another type of game.

Its all about prestige more then necessity. Anet knows that this is a driving factor for some players in these types of games. "I'm better then you cause ..." mentality... When in all reality its a trick to keep the haves playing and the have nots' wanting what the haves have. lol That was convoluted huh? lol But then again so is some of the communities mentality on things...

Its all in what you take away from it. If you bought GWEN and was unhappy with it, well ok, your job is done at this point, you got new options, or you don't its all up to you... If you do not have GWEN well then your not too concerned with any of this. but don't be too surprised to see people in the newest part of the game for a period of time.. it takes time for the community to filter back to their old routines after a new chapter or expansion is released. But it always seems to happen eventually. Either by the old school people going and doing some stuff they have not in a long time, OR by new people to the game world coming in.

China may or may not be a big draw, but either way I doubt anet will charge them subscriptions as it stands as their number 1 business model not to have a subscription. True the Government may charge them for the censor controls or whatever, but I doubt that will be under Anets purview, but more the Chinese government taking their cut for use of their infrastructure.

lord dragon · Sep 10, 2007, 09:24 AM // 09:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

More rubbish. You could perhaps play with people who aren't obsessing over a pointless extra level in a skill?

It wasn't clever the first time, and I don't think the repetition is growing on anyone.

The question is whether you have the skill or not and how powerful it is. This has started. Get over the idea that these skills did not unbalance the game, they have.

As for the other, this is my signature. You will see it on all my posts.

Please remember...

I must not GRIND. GRIND is the mind-killer. GRIND is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my GRIND... I will permit it to pass over me and through me.

lord dragon · Sep 10, 2007, 09:28 AM // 09:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mac Sidewinder

I don't like "grind" anymore than the next person but you ought to think about what you say before you post. Do you really think that Anet's plan was to make everybody pissed off so they would quit playing the game? How is this advantagous to them in any way? Less money for equipment? Come on. I'm sure they try to make the best game they can to keep their fan base up as high as possible. They miss the mark once in a while (like this expansion) but i'm pretty sure they're not trying to commit suicide by driving everyone away.

If you're disapointed, that's understandable, but at least try to make intelligent comments.

The bottom line is this is happening. I have seen it before in other MMOs and I am seeing it now in GW.

Please remember...

I must not GRIND. GRIND is the mind-killer. GRIND is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my GRIND... I will permit it to pass over me and through me.

=HT=Ingram · Sep 10, 2007, 08:28 PM // 20:28

lol I had to have read that 30 times now lord in various threads. lol I think it deserves an in game quote with a henchmen someplace lol