Curse

GourangaPizza · Sep 05, 2007, 03:31 PM // 15:31

How about Anet host a competition in which 3D Model artists try to create a new armor based on the model's mesh they release? This is a cheap solution and they do not even have to hire additional staff or move a finger at all.

Mordakai · Sep 05, 2007, 03:34 PM // 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

I don't think everyone would be so pissed off if these armors were 1k each. Sure, they're...interesting, but definantly not worth more than 1.5k a piece.

But then they could not be stored in the HoM, which is kinda the point, right?

Another way to think about this is these are 10k versions of 15k armor.

So, you're really saving 25k off a complete set!

(I should go into sales.... not!)

Draikin · Sep 05, 2007, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Prove to me that the armors in Eye of the North are the same armors as the previous game?

Let's look at the Asuran armor for example: compare Asuran monk with Elite Saintly armor, Asuran Ranger with Elite Drakescale, Asuran Warrior with Elite Kurzick, Asuran necromancer with Elite Luxon, Asuran elementalist with Elite Hydromancer,... Then please point out how these are not the same armor?

Mordakai · Sep 05, 2007, 03:47 PM // 15:47

They are not exactly the same, but they are close enough to leave little doubt about their "inspiration."

Which is why I think it was deleberate way to offer armor from other campaigns in GWEN, so people can get Kurzick-like armor w/o owning Factions.

Gattocheese · Sep 05, 2007, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Yeah this is SUPPOSED to be end game elite armor. So we should see a price tag of 10-15k a piece. But they also use some reskins of the 1k-1.5k armors. Meaning why pay more for the same? I would pay to get rid of the armor, any takers?(Anet)

Actually i am gonna say it right now. If Anet came out with a lil add on to the expansion with just 40 actual new model armors, and a few new weapons i would pay for that. I wouldnt pay alot, but i would pay for that. Put some end game armor in there when you beat the game, like destroyer armor. Put in some armor in thats at an end of a elite dungeon. Make your pride and joy have content man! Let Guild Wars live to see Guild Wars 2.

lyra_song · Sep 05, 2007, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draikin

Let's look at the Asuran armor for example: compare Asuran monk with Elite Saintly armor, Asuran Ranger with Elite Drakescale, Asuran Warrior with Elite Kurzick, Asuran necromancer with Elite Luxon, Asuran elementalist with Elite Hydromancer,... Then please point out how these are not the same armor?

They are not the same armor in simple virtue of the fact that a red delicious apple is NOT a macintosh apple. Two apples, similar taste, color, shape, and overall texture.

Yes. Asuran armor uses the older meshes, changes the mesh on them and uses a new texture. BUT ITS STILL NOT THE SAME ARMOR.

Drakescale and 15k Drakescale are not the same armor.
Rouges and 15k Rouges are not the same armor.
Fanatics and Cultists are not the same armor.
Studded Leather and 15k Studded Leather are not the same armor.
Kurzick warrior armor and 15k kurzick warrior are not the same armor.
Sunspear warrior armor and Elite sunspear warrior armor are not the same armor.

You wanna say all the GW:EN armors are NOT new? Fine. But by that logic Kurzick warrior and Elite Kurzick Warrior are the SAME armor when they are clearly not.

Sword Liger · Sep 05, 2007, 04:25 PM // 16:25

such a dissapointment, some stuff is ok, all the armour besides the stand alone peices are sucky reskins. Destroyer weapons are good though.

Abedeus · Sep 05, 2007, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Drakescale and 15k Drakescale are not the same armor.
Rouges and 15k Rouges are not the same armor.
Fanatics and Cultists are not the same armor.
Studded Leather and 15k Studded Leather are not the same armor.
Kurzick warrior armor and 15k kurzick warrior are not the same armor.
Sunspear warrior armor and Elite sunspear warrior armor are not the same armor.

Sure they are not same. But Asuran is a reskin of few armors, so it's SAME as them.
And a lot of monk armors in GWEN use the same textures. I don't care if Rouge and 15k Rouge look almost same, because they use two diffrend textures and I know that when I pay 14k more, I know I get a better armor. Now I don't know if I get a better armor (let's say, Ancient) or so-so reskin of better armors (Dwarven). And don't know why they say ,,40 new armors!!'', while maybe 6-8 are new (mainly Norn ones), while at least 30 other are reskins.

lyra_song · Sep 05, 2007, 05:09 PM // 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Sure they are not same. But Asuran is a reskin of few armors, so it's SAME as them.

You just contradicted yourself.

First reskins is not the same. Then reskin is the same.

Make up your mind.

Is a reskin the same or not?

If yes, then the Droknars and the Citadel/Grotto armors are the same.
If no, then Droknars and Citadel/Grotto are different.

You cant say one reskin isnt the same then turn around and tell me it is.

So which one is it? Are reskins the same, or are they different?

Quote:

And a lot of monk armors in GWEN use the same textures.

None of the new armors share ANY textures with the old armors. They share base meshes, but those meshes are modified. The probably share the same UV map, but i cant be sure.

Quote:

I don't care if Rouge and 15k Rouge look almost same, because they use two diffrend textures and I know that when I pay 14k more, I know I get a better armor.

If price is your problem, then state that as your problem.

Quote:

Now I don't know if I get a better armor (let's say, Ancient) or so-so reskin of better armors (Dwarven). And don't know why they say ,,40 new armors!!'', while maybe 6-8 are new (mainly Norn ones), while at least 30 other are reskins.

See....this where theres any sort of actual argument.

Does a reskin constitute as a "new" armor?

Discuss that!

CHunterX · Sep 05, 2007, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

None of the new armors share ANY textures with the old armors. They share base meshes, but those meshes are modified. The probably share the same UV map, but i cant be sure.

Actually, most of the armors contain the same elements of the original textures (look at the Monk's Monument shoulder pad along with the Judges, pretty blatant) but they subtly re-colored them, and adjusted the placement of some "lines," something that could have been done in photoshop within minutes if you have the original texture at hand. I hardly consider that all 40 armors are "new" and it should have been worded: 40 recycled armors.

EDIT: I'll throw an example of a good reskin at you: Elementalist Collectors and Elementalist Aeroforged, or whatever the 15k version is called nowadays, they change the names on me weekly. THAT I consider a new armor. Many will agree with me.

Karia Mirniman · Sep 05, 2007, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

See....this where theres any sort of actual argument.

Does a reskin constitute as a "new" armor?

Discuss that!

You can't change reality however you argue it, a large number of people think it's not 'new' and are disappointed.

Emanuel Zorg · Sep 05, 2007, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

However I disagree that the quality is less. Its the same quality of work.

Well, this is technically true. I mean, if Asura armor were literally an exact copy of Kurzick armor down to the texture, it would be the same quality of work, by definition. However, it would be clear that absolutely no time or effort went into creating it, since it's an exact copy.

What we have are not exact copies, but when the vast majority of new armors are obvious reskins, it gives the appearance that the time and effort put into them is not the same as previous games. Because in previous games, we have seen reskins, but we have not seen the vast majority of all armors being reskins. Creating all-new models and textures as they have for past games certainly requires more effort, so I don't think it's unreasonable to say that less total effort was put into the GW:EN armors. However, I don't think that's because the designers that worked on them "half-assed" them -- I think it's a result of having fewer designers working fewer hours to create them. Again, this has to do with a disconnect between player expectations (ArenaNet will put everything they have into the final expansion for GW1) and reality (ArenaNet has already moved most of their resources to GW2).

So the problem is not so much one of quality, but of originality and creativity. I think we can at least agree that when the vast majority of new armors reuse existing models, the originality factor is pretty low. I've never noticed a single reskin before because I have a bad eye for such things, but when I looked at the GW:EN armors I immediately recognized most of them as things I'd seen before.

Just look at the new heroes for some very creative and original armors. I do understand that it's probably easier to create hero armors than player armors. They only need to be created for one size on one model. But I also understand players' disappointment at seeing these beautiful, original, and creative armors for heroes, while the player armors almost all have designs we've seen before. Most likely they didn't have enough man-hours to be original or creative with the designs so they just put their effort into new textures, but it's still disappointing to many players.

That said, I don't believe they should change any existing armors, because as you've mentioned, it would be unfair to people who bought them already.

Mai · Sep 05, 2007, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Quote:

Does a reskin constitute as a "new" armor?

Discuss that!

The answer is no, even though it has the textures are different, the 1.5k version and 15k version still have the same base model.

The reason that so many people are disgruntled is that ANET advertised that these "new" armors would have a completely new look as in the Vabbian set that players received in Nightfall.

Quote:

They are not the same armor in simple virtue of the fact that a red delicious apple is NOT a macintosh apple. Two apples, similar taste, color, shape, and overall texture.

But they are still apples. People bought GWEN expecting new armor or oranges , if you want to use fruits to describe armor meshes, but what they received was another colored apple labeled as an orange.

CHunterX · Sep 05, 2007, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emanuel Zorg

That said, I don't believe they should change any existing armors, because as you've mentioned, it would be unfair to people who bought them already.

If they were to reskin the armor, I believe they should (and would, although it would be weeks later) add a refund quest (they did it with Razah) or something similar to those who have already paid for the armor.
I still think they should remodel most of the existing GW:EN armors though, or at least put real effort into the textures.

Mordakai · Sep 05, 2007, 05:48 PM // 17:48

I like one guys idea to sell an "armor pack" for $5 to $10.

FLAME AWAY!

Squirl · Sep 05, 2007, 05:55 PM // 17:55

I'd buy the armor pack as long as they were all new models and not blatant reskins. My Sins been wearing the same armor for the last 800 hours of playing her. Nothing can beat the Luxon shorts :3

Zonzai · Sep 05, 2007, 06:08 PM // 18:08

I'd buy an armor pack. But not "an access to current armor sets and/or reskins" pack.

Yeah the new armor isn't anything special and some of the sets are downright lame. I hope ANet learns from this mistake and doesn't do it again. And I think that they will.

And we'll just have to stick with the armor sets that we already have.

lyra_song · Sep 05, 2007, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHunterX

Actually, most of the armors contain the same elements of the original textures (look at the Monk's Monument shoulder pad along with the Judges, pretty blatant) but they subtly re-colored them, and adjusted the placement of some "lines," something that could have been done in photoshop within minutes if you have the original texture at hand.

If two armors share the same base mesh, they will have the same lines, divisions and contours. Theres no way to escape that even if you modify the mesh. Unless you radically alter or rebuild a mesh, it will have a similar overall texture because of its inherent common base mesh.

However, that being said, it proves nothing that the armors share textures. They may share a common THEME, or fabric color, but from what ive observed, none of the reskins reuse the old texture in any way.

Quote:

I hardly consider that all 40 armors are "new" and it should have been worded: 40 recycled armors.

EDIT: I'll throw an example of a good reskin at you: Elementalist Collectors and Elementalist Aeroforged, or whatever the 15k version is called nowadays, they change the names on me weekly. THAT I consider a new armor. Many will agree with me.

Way to contradict yourself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karia Mirniman

You can't change reality however you argue it, a large number of people think it's not 'new' and are disappointed.

You also contradicted yourself. How come I cant change reality with my arguements, yet other people can?

Just because other people think its not new doesnt mean it isnt new.
That automatically invalidates what I think? Because i think that it is new?

So my opinion is not as good as yours? Or the "majority"?

Im not arguing against your disappointment. But this petition is based on semantic bullshit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mai

The answer is no, even though it has the textures are different, the 1.5k version and 15k version still have the same base model.

But you didnt really answer the question.

The question is "Is a reskin count as new?". You say no. Now tell me why.

All youve answered is that the reskins do not count as having new MESHES. Dont deviate and tell me that its the same as the older armor.

If I lined up all the reskinned armors from ALL the games, would you honestly tell me you CANT tell them apart? That they would be the same? Theres no distinction, differences, subtle nuances that make each one different from the other?

Quote:

But they are still apples. People bought GWEN expecting new armor or oranges , if you want to use fruits to describe armor meshes, but what they received was another colored apple labeled as an orange.

Dont distort my analogy Mai.

Apples are the metaphor for armor. All apples are similar, otherwise they wouldnt be categorized as apples. Just as all armors look similar. Even armors that do not share meshes share the same basic templates, even if some of them have some withstanding "stand-out" designs.

--------------

Bottom line for me.
They are just some bad reskins. If they were good reskins, nobody would be complaining.

edit: Mixed up metaphor for analogy -.o

CHunterX · Sep 05, 2007, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Way to contradict yourself.

lol, I dont think you get it these arguments. I see most of the complaining about the armors not solely based on the fact that they are reskins, but that they are reskins which look identical or mostly identical at first, even a second glance. I've never heard more than maybe 2 people ever complain about Aeromancer armor using the same model as Collectors, and IIRC it was the most popular Ascended armor during Prophecies. That is because it was a good reskin, unlike the armors we see in GW:EN.

Again, please note that some reskins are fine. Prophecies had some and for the most part I think everyone agreed they looked fantastic and unique (barring 15k Hydro). With GW:EN we are seeing models that have been retextured 3-4 times throughout various campaigns (Warrior Kurzick comes to mind), and it looks like maybe one or two pieces which actually got a new model, and the textures applied are less than unique. People aren't contraindicating themselves over and over and over, you simply don't understand the argument.

lyra_song · Sep 05, 2007, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHunterX

lol, I dont think you get it these arguments. I see most of the complaining about the armors not solely based on the fact that they are reskins, but that they are reskins which look identical or mostly identical at first, even a second glance. I've never heard more than maybe 2 people ever complain about Aeromancer armor using the same model as Collectors, and IIRC it was the most popular Ascended armor during Prophecies. That is because it was a good reskin, unlike the armors we see in GW:EN.

Read my post above yours

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Bottom line for me.
They are just some bad reskins. If they were good reskins, nobody would be complaining.

I DO get it. I DO understand the problem.

What I'm trying to do is filter out the non-sensical garbage thats in the thread lilke "Anet did a half-ass job" or "Reskins are the same as the old ones, so they arent new".

Quote:

Again, please note that some reskins are fine. Prophecies had some and for the most part I think everyone agreed they looked fantastic and unique (barring 15k Hydro). With GW:EN we are seeing models that have been retextured 3-4 times throughout various campaigns (Warrior Kurzick comes to mind), and it looks like maybe one or two pieces which actually got a new model, and the textures applied are less than unique. People aren't contraindicating themselves over and over and over, you simply don't understand the argument.

You clearly said.

"I hardly consider that all 40 armors are "new" and it should have been worded: 40 recycled armors."

and then you said.

"I'll throw an example of a good reskin at you: Elementalist Collectors and Elementalist Aeroforged, or whatever the 15k version is called nowadays, they change the names on me weekly. THAT I consider a new armor. Many will agree with me."

If you are CLARIFYING your original position as to mean that the "The reskins suck", Then i agree with you. But your original statement is a contradiction.