Curse

luilui · Sep 05, 2007, 10:36 AM // 10:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tijger

*steals some of lyra_song's popcorn and watches the proceedings shaking his head, laughing at the amount of people who fell out of the stupid tree and hit every branch on the way down*

People like you two really annoy me, pretending to be smart, posting irresponsible comment, flaming other 200 people without any argument.

If you want to flame someone at least give an argument.

*shaking his head because of the lack of decency in some people*

ayame ftw · Sep 05, 2007, 11:00 AM // 11:00

*Writing something between stars because it makes me look interesting*

haggus71 · Sep 05, 2007, 12:14 PM // 12:14

Lyra_song, Tijger. There is some constructive criticism in here between the flames. You're like the gang at MST 3K, only with no redeeming humor. You want to keep looking like ass hats, keep up the smarmy posts to amuse yourselves. *f-off. does that look elitist enough for you 2?*

Personally, I think the problem is the armor is a glaring reminder that, for what is according to Anet their last big addition to the game for two years, until GW2, the game looks like a cheap retread they tossed at us. Instead of taking time and thought in the design and focus, they threw in a bunch of title grinds and repetitive dungeon crawls to keep the maze rats busy for a while. If they were coming out with GW2 in 6 months, or even next fall, this might pass. 2009? This is a slap in the face.

Each new game had something significant to offer. Factions gave us the split storyline and faction titles, and added to the PvP experience. Nightfall gave us heroes. For ten bucks less than that, we get dungeon crawls(Undercity? The Deep?) and a four-way version of faction/sunspear, plus four badly-designed reskins (with the possible exception the ranger Norn). Oh, and they feed the grind. Easy way to keep farmers/title grinders satisfied, but judging from all those who took the time to think through a decent complaint about the game, they have pissed off a lot of people.

Me, I look at this and think, "Do I want to wait around, plucking along at this game for another 2 years; or should I just take my money somewhere else?" Don't forget. For every bad comment, it takes 10 good ones to equal it out. That's Business 101. There are plenty of good MMOs coming out, or already out there, with excellent storylines, that they should do everything possible to keep as many people playing as they can over the next few years.

Tijger · Sep 05, 2007, 12:37 PM // 12:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by haggus71

Lyra_song, Tijger. There is some constructive criticism in here between the flames. You're like the gang at MST 3K, only with no redeeming humor. You want to keep looking like ass hats, keep up the smarmy posts to amuse yourselves. *f-off. does that look elitist enough for you 2?*

Constructive? How is "We want new 'endgame' armor or else..." being constructive?

Oh, and f*ck you too, its exactly the elitists who cry the loudest here but then, they usually are the whiners anyway

Quote:

Personally, I think the problem is the armor is a glaring reminder that, for what is according to Anet their last big addition to the game for two years, until GW2, the game looks like a cheap retread they tossed at us. Instead of taking time and thought in the design and focus, they threw in a bunch of title grinds and repetitive dungeon crawls to keep the maze rats busy for a while. If they were coming out with GW2 in 6 months, or even next fall, this might pass. 2009? This is a slap in the face.

Thats your opinion, mine differs, I wont sway you with any argument, now will I? So what again is the point of offering said argumentation?
I personally think EN is their best yet with better quests, better rewards, tighter storyline without having to going from A to B to C and personally, some of the armors are great, some are ugly, some are so-so. No different from Prophecies, Factions or Nightfall imho.

Quote:

Each new game had something significant to offer. Factions gave us the split storyline and faction titles, and added to the PvP experience. Nightfall gave us heroes. For ten bucks less than that, we get dungeon crawls(Undercity? The Deep?) and a four-way version of faction/sunspear, plus four badly-designed reskins (with the possible exception the ranger Norn). Oh, and they feed the grind. Easy way to keep farmers/title grinders satisfied, but judging from all those who took the time to think through a decent complaint about the game, they have pissed off a lot of people.

Factions sucked according to hundreds of posters here and the PvP never took off as intended AFAIK. Nightfall? That too incurred endless 'petitions' to change x or y and "I want Z or else..." topics.

4 reskins? Um...so there's only 4 armors? Or do you mean 4 per class (actually x2 if you count male and female which differ quite a bit in most cases)?
As for reskins, all armor in GW is a 'reskin' since the basic character meshes are all human with similar features over which 'armor' is laid, GW has ALWAYS been comprised of reskins from prophecies onwards.

Quote:

Me, I look at this and think, "Do I want to wait around, plucking along at this game for another 2 years; or should I just take my money somewhere else?" Don't forget. For every bad comment, it takes 10 good ones to equal it out. That's Business 101. There are plenty of good MMOs coming out, or already out there, with excellent storylines, that they should do everything possible to keep as many people playing as they can over the next few years.

Oh good god, here we go again...

Arenanet has stated, through various people, that they never ever intended GW to be THE ONLY GAME you can play, in fact its one of the few games of this type you can lay aside for a few months and pick right back up again without needed to re-grind everything.

So who cares if you play game x or y for a couple of months and put down GW, the whole idea that you CAN do exactly that with GW

Shai-hulud · Sep 05, 2007, 12:41 PM // 12:41

40 NEW armors, a good question is what's new.
Obviously reskinned armors are not new for most of us. Perhaps I'm not really an expert at seeing things being remoddeled or I don't really look into it, but even I see similarity between EotN armors and armors from previous campaigns.

I don't really mind about the reskins, as far as I looked at the armors I think most of the reskins look better than the original. Okay, they are not new, but is this such a big deal? Do people buy EotN just for the new armors?
Well I don't, I'm a GW fan (like most of us) from the beginning and I enjoyed the storyline of GW:EN, comparing them to the three other campaigns this game has alot more *original* missions, many more *team grinds (dungeons, where the previous campaigns did not)* and for title hunters among us some new titles.

I think I got quite alot for the $30 I payed for it. Great scenery, funny missions and perhaps some good remoddeled armors. Don't get me wrong, I would have prefered better looking armor in most cases, but I think the good thinks even this out. (soryr for my bad english btw)

Vel · Sep 05, 2007, 01:03 PM // 13:03

Why do I fear that we will have an armor bonus pack in a very near future from ANET?

- Vel

Government Flu · Sep 05, 2007, 01:45 PM // 13:45

Re-skinning the armors would be too time consuming and probably risky. ArenaNet should live with their mistake and learn from it. Personally, I feel they should focus on bonus content for later release while Guild Wars 2 is being made. There's a lot of unexplored areas in Cantha and since EN has lots of dungeons, they can always add another.

lyra_song · Sep 05, 2007, 01:45 PM // 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by haggus71

Lyra_song, Tijger. There is some constructive criticism in here between the flames. You're like the gang at MST 3K, only with no redeeming humor. You want to keep looking like ass hats, keep up the smarmy posts to amuse yourselves. *f-off. does that look elitist enough for you 2?*

Ive been posting meaningfully on this thread.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...7&postcount=13

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...9&postcount=28

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...4&postcount=95

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...8&postcount=97

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...&postcount=172

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...&postcount=202

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...&postcount=233

and this post i still stand by:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...2&postcount=85

But after page 12 or this turned into a off topic lynch mob thread with no real purpose than to bash Anet. Its kinda pointless to try and reason with some people here.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...&postcount=243

After I received PMs from people telling me to stop posting my arguments, trying to bully me (without any sort of proper counter-argument to negate my arguments or render them moot), i pretty much gave up on the lot of you.

Im gonna make this VERY VERY simple and clear.

Just because YOU dont like the look of something doesn't mean you can demand a manufacturer to change the whole product line

Just because YOU dont like the look of something doesn't mean the person who made it did it half-assed or did less work. A LOT of work went into GW:EoTN. And armors are no exception.

Just because YOU dont like it doesnt mean some people aren't allowed to like it.

There is nothing wrong with NOT LIKING IT. Thats your personal preference. Thats your taste. That is FINE!

But dont go on telling me they lied to you, or they did a half ass job, or that you deserve better cause thats all bullshit and fallacious.

Removing ANY armors would severely penalize those who LIKE IT and already OWN IT and are ENJOYING IT.

Draikin · Sep 05, 2007, 02:14 PM // 14:14

This not a matter of "I like or don't like the armor", it's a matter of Anet promising us 40 new armors where "new" of course implies they'd be made from scratch. New does not mean mixing old armor pieces together and giving them a simple re-skin. There's no excuse for this, if they couldn't give us 40 new armors then they should have been honest with us and tell us that, instead of new armor, we were going to get re-skins.

Proteus Summer · Sep 05, 2007, 02:16 PM // 14:16

/signed

Lyra_song This thread was never about complaining to you about the lack of originality with the armors. This was a way for players to express "To Anet" that alot of people were disappointed and felt "ripped off". We as a consumer have the right to express this.

As far as being lied to by anet we sort of were 40 reskins does not equal 40 NEW ARMORS IMO. I'm sure the community would have accepted a large percentage to be reskins, but to have most of them be reskins is just bad business.

Hopefully they can update some of the armors like they did for the 15k tyrian Gladiators at a later date. Maybe anet could swap some of our crappy reskins for some of the hero armors??

lyra_song · Sep 05, 2007, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draikin

This not a matter of "I like or don't like the armor", it's a matter of Anet promising us 40 new armors where "new" of course implies they'd be made from scratch. New does not mean mixing old armor pieces together and giving them a simple re-skin. There's no excuse for this, if they couldn't give us 40 new armors then they should have been honest with us and tell us that, instead of new armor, we were going to get re-skins.

Thats a matter of semantics and it will lead you nowhere.

You can't make a petition based on a semantic argument.

Prove to me that the armors in Eye of the North are the same armors as the previous game?

Do they have the same mesh? Same UV map? Same textures? Same dye pattern?

Theres only 1 place where armors from the previous game are available and thats in FACTIONS. Where you can craft Krytan armor, an armor thats available from PROPHECIES.

Would you be as brazen to say that Fanatic and Cultist armor are the same exact armor? They share the same mesh, but one is quite different from the other.

None of the armors are the same as the old. They dont have the same requirement, mesh, dye pattern, UV maps, or textures.

Theres a big difference between being ripped off/scammed VS being disappointed in your purchase.

One is for lawsuits, the other is for customer support.

Mordakai · Sep 05, 2007, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proteus Summer

As far as being lied to by anet we sort of were 40 reskins does not equal 40 NEW ARMORS IMO. I'm sure the community would have accepted a large percentage to be reskins, but to have most of them be reskins is just bad business.

Large % = Most. What's your complaint again?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proteus Summer

Hopefully they can update some of the armors like they did for the 15k tyrian Gladiators at a later date. Maybe anet could swap some of our crappy reskins for some of the hero armors??

Maybe. It's funny, all the voice acting, graphic overhaul, pretty decent plot, nice PvE skills, new heroes, etc...

and all people complain about is the armor.

Lesson for Anet: Next time, worry less about the game, and focus more on the armor. That's all people seem to care about!

Gattocheese · Sep 05, 2007, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Ok, what you need to understand is this is my opinion. Alot of people share the same. I am a grinder, not a title grinder. My main purpose in guildwars, lets say my main objective that really gets me to play is bettering my character with the best possible wears and items. I posted this before. I like to get the most elite weapons and armor Guild Wars has to offer. Now i worked my ass off playing the game for several months in anticipation for 40 brand new armor sets that were supposed to be "end game armors". When i found out most were reskins of previous armors (as well as weapons) it was the biggest let down for me. I did mainly buy the expansion to get the so called armor and so called end game content. The story is short and there is no content beyond finishing the dungeons and game. So i would of really liked to work for some new models of armor.

This alone has been a let down for a huge amount of people. More so than any other campaign i have ever seen. Dont judge people for what they do in the game. I like to get armor sets and weapons, different models and cool skins. I am proud of that.

Emanuel Zorg · Sep 05, 2007, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Just because YOU dont like the look of something doesn't mean the person who made it did it half-assed or did less work.

While I agree with a lot of what you wrote, this is a strawman. I don't think anyone worth listening to has said "I don't like the way it looks, therefore ANet did a half-assed job".

I think what's being said is that we've seen amazing new armors for all professions in past campaigns. We've seen some quality reworkings of existing armors (such as Warrior Kurzick -> Warrior Sunspear -- it would be wrong to call sunspear a "reskin" because there are differences in the model -- a sign that the time and care was taken to make sure the model and skin worked well together). The quality of work on armors in past campaigns has been consistently high, and even those that I can't stand (assassin ancient armor comes to mind) are well-designed and nicely skinned, and show that a lot of time and creativity went into them.

So it's pretty shocking to see that in GW:EN, the vast majority of armors are obvious reskins of past models. The textures in many cases are quite nice, but the overall look of the armors are all reminiscent of things we've seen before. On top of that, the armors require farming for reputation and cost 10k per piece.

So if we consider 1. ArenaNet's past work, 2. the fact that GW:EN is likely the last expansion for GW1, and 3. That these armors are all elite armors and require grinding for reputation, a lot of players were expecting that ArenaNet would pull out all the stops and give us the best work they're capable of. Player expectations were extremely high, so the level of disappointment is correspondingly high. I don't think any of these armors are hideous when you look at them on their own, but when you compare them to past work and consider the 3 points I mentioned, they don't compare favorably.

lyra_song · Sep 05, 2007, 03:03 PM // 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emanuel Zorg

While I agree with a lot of what you wrote, this is a strawman. I don't think anyone worth listening to has said "I don't like the way it looks, therefore ANet did a half-assed job".

This is directed at those who seem to think Anet half-assed the armors, because those comments annoy me as an artist.

When i work on anything, you can criticize that you dont like it. Or you think its UGLY. Thats fine. But dont tell me i half-assed anything, because thats insulting to me, and not a critique of the work in question. I give my everything into my work and im very proud of that. I doubt Anet is any different.

Quote:

I think what's being said is that we've seen amazing new armors for all professions in past campaigns. We've seen some quality reworkings of existing armors (such as Warrior Kurzick -> Warrior Sunspear -- it would be wrong to call sunspear a "reskin" because there are differences in the model -- a sign that the time and care was taken to make sure the model and skin worked well together). The quality of work on armors in past campaigns has been consistently high, and even those that I can't stand (assassin ancient armor comes to mind) are well-designed and nicely skinned, and show that a lot of time and creativity went into them.

So it's pretty shocking to see that in GW:EN, the vast majority of armors are obvious reskins of past models. The textures in many cases are quite nice, but the overall look of the armors are all reminiscent of things we've seen before. On top of that, the armors require farming for reputation and cost 10k per piece.

So if we consider 1. ArenaNet's past work, 2. the fact that GW:EN is likely the last expansion for GW1, and 3. That these armors are all elite armors and require grinding for reputation, a lot of players were expecting that ArenaNet would pull out all the stops and give us the best work they're capable of. Player expectations were extremely high, so the level of disappointment is correspondingly high. I don't think any of these armors are hideous when you look at them on their own, but when you compare them to past work and consider the 3 points I mentioned, they don't compare favorably.

I agree with you. Theres been high expectations.

I also agree that SOME of the reskins (particularly the dwarven ones) are REALLY BAD. UNINTERESTING. BLAND.

However I disagree that the quality is less. Its the same quality of work.

The quality of work done and attention to detail does not equate to a beautiful final product.

Mordakai · Sep 05, 2007, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynx Of Ithorian

Hey ,

Just wanted to know the views of all you on this matter , I personally im very annoyed at the lack of effort put into the new armor sets , especially the end game armor that looks like badly retextured RECYCLED versions of older armor , my male monk deldimor armor does not even match - the pance look like there off another armor set to the top and i'd wear my sing jea set over it anyday. utterly dissapointed.

The game to me feel's rushed and recycled , even the end-game green weapons are pathetic - brohn healing staff skin ... just wow.

If your feeling as frustrated as me about the lack of effort put into this game , please share your thoughts and maybe , just maybe anet will pull there finger out and release some original armor skins for us to enjoy.

just for reference, here is the OP.

It is insulting. Basically, the OP is saying he doesn't care about anything else in the game, all that matters is the end game armor, and since it's crap, the whole game is crap.

Talk about flawed arguments...

I do find it odd that on one of the best Guild Wars products ever in regards to voice acting, graphics, hero armor, etc.... the player armor is so bad. It really boggles the mind. It's like Anet either didn't think people would notice, or perhaps they purposely put reskins so that people who missed out on other campaigns could get a similar armor here.

I have to believe it's deliberate, in which case, a petition to change the armor is valid. However, if the tone of the OP was just a little more cordial, he would have received less flames and more support.

Bryant Again · Sep 05, 2007, 03:22 PM // 15:22

I don't think everyone would be so pissed off if these armors were 1k each. Sure, they're...interesting, but definantly not worth more than 1.5k a piece.

And yeah I agree largely with Emanual.

Gattocheese · Sep 05, 2007, 03:22 PM // 15:22

There has been alot of high expectations for GWEN. I, myself would of rather them not put so much time trying to improve the graphic view in GWEN and more time into putting new armor models up. The game has a decent graphic engine already. I think the end game content, the stuff that keeps players around should have been paid more attention to.. i.e. armor. In my opinion, i would have loved to beat the game and grind for a title with all my characters to have some original model armor. Now i dont want any new armor. But its just a disappointment almost across the board.

lyra_song · Sep 05, 2007, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

I don't think everyone would be so pissed off if these armors were 1k each. Sure, they're...interesting, but definantly not worth more than 1.5k a piece.

And yeah I agree largely with Emanual.

I think if you grinded for the title, bought it, and felt ripped off, thats a justifyable sensation.

But its just the same as when someone posted being the first to have the Necro Primeval Armor.

But thats different from being ripped off for your real money.
Anet said 40 new armors and they deliver 41 sets + common armors. They gave you exactly what they said you would get.

If you dont like the aesthetics of it, thats a different matter.

Willow O Whisper · Sep 05, 2007, 03:31 PM // 15:31

I just can't take how Gaile told us that the reason for theese reskins is beacuse it fits the lore

That's one of the worst arguments iv'e ever heard.