Curse

CHunterX · Sep 05, 2007, 04:27 AM // 04:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by pingu666

difference in factions was a)account based, b)doing all the quests could net u the required 10k (on kurzick side, luxon has less for no apprent reason). plus theres AB,FA, and a couple of really quick repeatables.

If you did the quests, you easily had enough per character to get the 10k to continue the story and reach the Elite Armors. Now, in GW:EN, if you were to complete most of the quests + the storyline, you'd most likely be half-way through Rank 3. Which is why I suggested they simply upped the quest rewards. I would be fine with having to get Rank 5 if they simply made it possible without having to kill mobs all day and night

Arcain · Sep 05, 2007, 04:45 AM // 04:45

I have my rank 5 in Ebon vanguard and a full set of Monument armor, I went ahead and did the brainless grind….. now does it feel more “special” for me…. No. The grind was put in as a time sink, something Guild Wars does not need, because we aren’t making monthly payments.

White knight lord · Sep 05, 2007, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doucet

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Oh for god sake! Its just 26k points you need to earn for rank 5 and that takes virtually NO effort at all and a tiny amount of farming.

I reached rank 7 Norn on the preview event from just farming, when the rank needed for armor was alot higher.

You can probably make 3-4k in one area of the map from just killing a few creatures several times. You also get 100-750 points from dungeons and quests, so just replay quests if you dont like farming. And if you dont like doing quests and dungeons why are you playing the game?

FFS if I can manage that in 2 days, then any muppet can reach 26k points. Have you even checked guildwiki.net and saw the new armor? its all absolutely stupid and re-hashed and your not missing anything anyway.

People already winged about this after the preview when you originally needed rank 7 and it got reduceded to rank 5, so be greatfull and just put some effort in.

If you dont want to work for the 4 new armor sets in GWEN, you are more then welcome to go buy one of the dozen alternative armor sets throughout GWs.

GWEN isnt that big a game, and if Anet had simply given the armor away without needing ranks, then people would have nothing to work for. Anet had to incourage people to increase reputation ranks, because otherwise why have 3 non-human races?

Just stop winging and earn those points, and as for an MMO having grind in it. Have you played other MMOs? They all have grind in them, and it cant be avoided! How and why people think its possible to create an MMO without any grind is beyond me!

I dont love farming either and I hate grinding the same zone over and over again, but im willing to endure that because I dont mind working for stuff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doucet

Id just like to say that this guy knows his stuff. I see him constantly making valid arguments over everybody whining about this grind situation and other little GW:EN arguments. Listen to the man. you guys keep sitting here on guru complaining that the grinding is too much because you all too lazy to go out and repeat an area clearing it out maybe..10 times is what it takes. You go out, get the shrine buff, go kill 100, go back, each shrine will grant you 100 points (or more), various upgrades that gives you more points per kill, boss hunt bonus(basically if you slay a boss within the time limit, you gain 200 points, something like that). Doing Vanguard is a breeze. Your all complaining over absolutely nothing. The armor is prestige, it is not required for you to get in anyway whatsoever, all it takes to get it is getting the r5 through repeating an area a few times, so what..you want the armor? work for it and stop complaining.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

You dont ask for something to be removed, because the way you earn it doesnt work. You ask them to improve how you earn it!

^ Best solution to it that I can see. ArenaNet will eventually add more ways to get the titles easier. just give them some time. The game has been out for less than a week at this point, cut the company some slack and go do some dungeons.

Sorry dude but ima have to..First of all grinding sux, it gets old and is used as a lame excuse for replayability content closely related to the statement by VitisVinifera. As I have stated I did Grind for my monks armor and well it feels no more special. I found that clearing Varajar Falls out side of Olafstead to be the best spot with a lot of monsters (300-400 I think)(for the norn) which took bout 1 hr and 30 min to complete so 1 hr and 30 min X 10... is... around 15 hrs if I am not mistaken... and a total waste of time....sure we don't have to grind it is sad they are doing that just to keep us busy which is sad.The "you want it work for it" mentality to gridn for armor is kinda senseless in this seeing as how we gotta work for the Money/materials to get it anyway, I think that is enough imo. and I will ask Anet to improve the griding by saying "Remove the Grind to get armor,weapons and items!" The only reason I see why they put this in was to take up time(keep them busy) for the folks that would beat the expansion quick and a lack of content. ty

Nemo the Capitalist · Sep 05, 2007, 11:25 PM // 23:25

yet another reason why i wont get gwen

LobsterMobster · Sep 05, 2007, 11:49 PM // 23:49

I know it's hard being leet, so I fixed a few mistakes you made in here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Oh for god sake! Its just 26k points you need to earn for rank 5 and that takes LOTS of effort at all and a tiny amount of farming, if you're used to farming ectos like I am.

You can probably make 3-4k in one area of the map from just killing a few hundred creatures several dozen times.

Whine whine whine, I don't know how to spell whine.

There we go.

Me, I hate the Asura grind because I want to get glasses for my mesmer and the summons for my ritualist. It seems a little imbalanced to me that every dungeon will earn you Deldrimor points, regardless of location, yet there isn't quite as much incentive to farm explorables without that big juicy treasure chest at the bottom and a nice reward waiting for you in town.

generik · Sep 06, 2007, 12:19 AM // 00:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcain

Yes, I have noticed those responses, and here is my reply to that kind of thinking. The armor looks nice, so I want the armor, I have paid for the game and I have beaten the story. So I should have access to something without having to grind for hours, turning something that should be fun into work.
Now for the people saying that the grind is easy, well….. get a job, and get a life…. Just because you like mindlessly clearing an area many many many many times over does not mean we all do, or even have the time if we wanted too.

Since you have a life, and have a job... well realise also that the armor is not important. At all.

Ctb · Sep 06, 2007, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcain

...something Guild Wars does not need, because we aren’t making monthly payments.

See, that's what I don't get, I think. I can see how WoW gets away with it. I always figured there's no real gameplay there (by about level 43 I got mighty tired of hitting the same couple of keys over and over), so they need something to hook weak-willed people. With Guild Wars, however, I keep playing because I enjoy the challenge.

But, am I wrong? Do a lot of people actually ENJOY the simplistic, vacuous, and pointless?

Considering the popularity of things like American Idol maybe I shouldn't ask that...

Quote:

Since you have a life, and have a job... well realise also that the armor is not important. At all.

Except, as I pointed out before, this is a non-sequiter. The game always had pointless chotchkies that people with too much spare time could grind for. With GWEN the pointless chotchkies are a substantial part of the game:

+ Pointless grind for faction points with Ebon, Norn, Dwarves, etc.
+ Pointless grind for max titles for HOM
+ Pointless grind for "perfect" weapons in HOM

No, thanks. If this is where Guild Wars is going, count me out. The game was fun because it was challenging. You had to make intelligent decisions in real time, you had to pick skills and weapons intelligently. Then, they added heroes and you had to manage them in a meaningful way.

If the new focus is grind, forget it. I have books to read.

freekedoutfish · Sep 06, 2007, 09:08 AM // 09:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by LobsterMobster

I know it's hard being leet, so I fixed a few mistakes you made in here.

There we go.

Me, I hate the Asura grind because I want to get glasses for my mesmer and the summons for my ritualist. It seems a little imbalanced to me that every dungeon will earn you Deldrimor points, regardless of location, yet there isn't quite as much incentive to farm explorables without that big juicy treasure chest at the bottom and a nice reward waiting for you in town.

Mate that was just extremely sad editing what I wrote and re-quoting it. I have never farmed ectos or shards in my life and I have no desire to get FOW armor. I hate farming and I hate doing repetative stuff like that.

But if I can manage to make 56k points in 2 days, I really dont think asking people to earn 10k points from rank 4 to 5 is too much to ask. When and how did I give the impression that Im "l33t" just because Im trying to suggest that farming 10k points from rank 4 to 5 isnt that hard to do?

Are you suggesting that only a hardcore, elite player is capable of running an instance 3 or 4 times and taking bounties as they do it? If so, then OMG are you just lazey?

Get your facts straight before you try to put words into peoples mouths and assume things about them.

Lets get some perspective right.... you can reach rank 4 on all races by just doing quests and dungeons and bounties as you explore a new area. That leaves 10k more points to rank 5. Now in factions you are asked to earn 10k points for both luxon and kuzack before you can progess and Anet forces you to do that.

In no way has Anet forced you to earn reputation points. There are no points in the game where you cant progesss unless you have x amount of reputation for this race or that one. This is unlike sunspear, luxon and kuzack points which you need before you can move on.

Anet has not forced you to do anything in GWEN you dont want to. The entire game is open ended and optional to doing quests, dungeons and bounties. You could just walk from one end to the other if you wanted.

Yet no one complaints about having to earn 10k faction points or the amount needed for SS before you can progress. And in NF you have to farm those last few SS points. Does anyone complain? Nooo!

Unlike factions and NF you also get reputation points for everything you do in GWEN. Whether it be quests, dungeons, bounties or mini games. There are countless ways to earn reputation, unlike in factions where you get about 2 repeatable quests and the rest is done through pvp alliance battles (and i personally hate pvp).

And in NF you have to farm endless hours of instances to increase further in SS and LB, yet does anyone complain? Nooo!

The only difference here is the vanity factor!

People want their new, fancy armor now. Despite it not being a necessity and despite it not being any better then the max armor you probably already own. Despite the fact you dont need it and its just a vanity thing.

Dont talk to me about being l33t when players like yourself only want GWEN armor now, so you can run around Lions Arch shouting "hey look at me in GWEN armor... hahaha". Why cant you just wait a few days or weeks until you have the right rank?

Surena · Sep 06, 2007, 10:52 AM // 10:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

People want their new, fancy armor now. Despite it not being a necessity and despite it not being any better then the max armor you probably already own. Despite the fact you dont need it and its just a vanity thing.

Dont talk to me about being l33t when players like yourself only want GWEN armor now, so you can run around Lions Arch shouting "hey look at me in GWEN armor... hahaha". Why cant you just wait a few days or weeks until you have the right rank?

The usual useless post, as if anything here would be needed anyway. You don't need GW, you don't need to use Guru and tell others how to manage their free time or how to try liking a game.

I don't care about your FoW or if LA Dis 1 is full of it, I don't care about your titles or your 48h-nonstopplaying achievements. All I care for is my chars and those of my friends whom I can help. What's your problem with people who want armour now? Does it offend you because you like the grind and you believe it should be enforced on all?

shirosae · Sep 06, 2007, 11:31 AM // 11:31

I think the key issue is this:

People would rather have at least a majority of content from the expansion they just bought available to them without doing painful task xyz.

There are people out there who bought GW:EN solely for the '40 new armours'. They'd like to be able to kit out their ten toons without spending an inordinate amount of time doing so.

Now, i personally think the title grind in GW:EN is just about right... for a single character for PvE skills. I can see it getting very old very, very quickly after the third time through it.

Almost thankfully, i think the armours in GW:EN are pretty terrible, so i won't bother taking most of my toons further then the eye to grab the new skills unless i plan on using them in some sort of dungeon crawling team build with my guild, or i really, really want some PvE skills.

This all is why the 'IT'S OPTIONAL!!!!' argument fails every time: You are essentially arguing that it's fine for content in the expansion people just paid for to be unavailable to them, or to only be available to them after performing tasks they hate.

I can appreciate that, y'know, you disagree with these people. But to dismiss complaints from paying customers because they technically don't need to play the game they just bought is just a little obtuse.

I really wouldn't mind at all if the kill-mobs-to-gain-faction titles were made account-wide, or if the two new written evidence book things gave enough points to make them worth handing in.

=HT=Ingram · Sep 06, 2007, 01:05 PM // 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcain

Yes, I have noticed those responses, and here is my reply to that kind of thinking. The armor looks nice, so I want the armor, I have paid for the game and I have beaten the story. So I should have access to something without having to grind for hours, turning something that should be fun into work.
Now for the people saying that the grind is easy, well….. get a job, and get a life…. Just because you like mindlessly clearing an area many many many many times over does not mean we all do, or even have the time if we wanted too.

While I agree with you on one hand I see why its done on another... Plain and simple... Droknars running for armor... If they would have had a title or level requirement on max armor from the beginning then it would not be a surprise now... Thing is they didn't want people to just effortlessly get run to Gwen for new armors... they wants people to play it through a bit and earn it. While I agree if you finished the expansion then you should be allowed to get the armor of your choice I say this... thats what the books are for...

Trade in the books for the title which corresponds to your armor choice. that should put you over the top on the requirements of rank 5 and I think by the time you finish the expansion you should be at least rank 4 on your given title just from playing the expansion...

Ideally I would like to see the armor vendors in the Central Transfer Chamber at the end of expansion area... similar to divine path armorers...

truth be told they may be there I have not finished it as of yet to see, but I am assuming they are not as I have not seen it on wiki or in guru yet... so yea.. If you finished the game you should get the opportunity to get whatever armor you want regardless of title. but the title grind IS unnecessary for those that have NOT finished the expansion to prevent belittling the achievement.

lord dragon · Sep 06, 2007, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ctb

If the new focus is grind, forget it. I have books to read.

You know, watching grass grow while you are doing it makes it so much easier to do. LOL

JASON626 · Sep 06, 2007, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Personally 4 titles on 10 characters = grind.
Whether you want armor or added strength to the PvE only skills.

So if it takes a weekend to earn rank 7 on 1 of the 4 titles. Do the Math. 4 weekends per character. Now add the fact there are 10 professions. I mean when the game is new and exciting it goes by fast but after the first time or two you get tired of it.

I play guilds wars alot. 2,700 hours over the past 13 months. I'm a big believer with this many proffessions to have more account based titles. Plus they introduced PvE only skills late in faction and nightfall. So it feels like you just got through with getting rank in titles to have decent strength in those skills.

I could have cared less about titles until they actually made them useful. Everyone want to get the most of of a game. For some people it doing titles, for some it pvp rank, and for some its about econmy-money making. It would be nice to gain max titles for those that want them to be able to complete it before guild wars 2 comes out.

Mineria · Sep 06, 2007, 06:09 PM // 18:09

Lack of quests and only the option left to grind made me leave WoW to play GW.
And even with the copycat faction grind introduced in GW:EN, it is still far from as bad as WoW.
So still worth playing.
That's just my 5 cents.
BTW. Doing all the quests and dungeons for a faction, gets you to r4.
So if you really want one of those new armor sets, the grind to r5 is minimalistic.

freekedoutfish · Sep 06, 2007, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surena

The usual useless post, as if anything here would be needed anyway. You don't need GW, you don't need to use Guru and tell others how to manage their free time or how to try liking a game.

I don't care about your FoW or if LA Dis 1 is full of it, I don't care about your titles or your 48h-nonstopplaying achievements. All I care for is my chars and those of my friends whom I can help. What's your problem with people who want armour now? Does it offend you because you like the grind and you believe it should be enforced on all?

How many times do I have to repeat myself...

...I personally do not like grind, and im not trying to dictate how people play the game. All im saying is be patient. The storyline isnt not that long, and by the time you have done the few quests and dungeons that exist ingame, you will have close to rank 5.

Then it wont take a staggering amount of repeating dungeons, a few quests or bounty hunting to get to rank 5.

Does no one understand the concept of putting a tiny bit of effort in, and being patient to get stuff?

I really cannot comprehend why people think it is so much hard work to reach rank 5. I really, honsetly cannot. I got my copy of gwen about 3 days ago, and I started off with virtually no Asura points, no Drawf points and no Vanguard points.

Within about a day of doing the quests and a few dungeons and exploring some areas while I took the bounties I was on rank 4 or close. And I still have alot of quests and dungeons to do!

If people are reading this now, and thinking "blah blah blah, he loves grind" or "oh he must be re-doing these quests over and over again". Get this into your heads...

1) I dont like farming and any grind related stuff.
2) I have not once repeated any GWEN quests or dungeons.
3) I have not repeated any bounty hunts in areas (other then during the preview event for which I got rank 7 Norn).

....after 3 days of playing and doing quests and dungeons once. I am now on rank 4 Asura, rank 4 Vanguard and very close to rank 3 Drawf! It is going to require around 10k points to reach rank 5 give or take on all of those.

I am not lieing when I say this, and even today I started on 0 drawf points because I left all my drawf stuff until now. Within a few hours of doing drawf quests and dungeons I am now on rank 3 with is 8k points.

Now if you can make 8k points for drawf in just a few hours of questing, and I can reach rank 4 on both Asura and Vangaurd in 3 days, where is the problem?

The only race title I farmed was the Norn one. That was during the preview event to get armor, when you needed rank 7 and that took endless farming the same instance.

I havent done that for the other titles and I have reached rank 4 already! Tell me where the huge amount of effort is?

Show me where the grind was in gettign rank 4 Asura and Vangard and getting very close to rank 4 Drawf! Something point it out to me!!

I still have ALOT of dungeones left and quests for certain races and I am pretty certain they will get me to rank 5. If not it will only require a tiny bit of bounty hunting.

To those who continue to insist that reaching rank 5 is grind, then you all are either really lazey or you are doing something extremely wrong!

If you have all played through the storyline, done most of the quests and dungeons, you should atleast into around 16k give or take, for all your races?

If your not, then your obviously not getting bounties when you move through new areas or dungeons. Dont blame the game because you dont understand how to earn points.

White knight lord · Sep 06, 2007, 08:21 PM // 20:21

The main points I see in this whole thing are-
1) It is a waste of time. (no matter how good you make it sound)
2) Grinding get old and is boring.
3) Why the grind now?

My answers/opinions
1) It seems like a waste of time
2) After the 1st character it does
3) Lack of replayable content.

Technically they are forceing us to grind the titles through the primaries seeing how we need to do those to advance (just to get technical).Imo I think they should make titles such as these acct based, wouldn't be AS boring since you could change chars and have the same progress on all of them with out doing the same stuff over and over. This would reduce the # of people moaning and groaning bout the grind and how boring it is and we would also not have any of this arguing going on.

Mordakai · Sep 06, 2007, 08:34 PM // 20:34

The thing is:

Factions forced you to grind Faction points, because you could not move on if you wanted to. I didn't want to do every single Luxon quest and then PvP the rest, I wanted to move on with the main storyline. Therefore, Faction was grind.

Nightfall forced you to get Sunspear points. Remember when it launched? I actually stopped playing for a few months, because my level 20 was forced to grind sunspear points that I had none of, because I started in Tyria. Anet fixed it later, which is hopeful for GWEN that they'll add more ways to get points.

But, even if they don't, GWEN does not require grind. Armor is prestige, always has been. Sure, you could run to Droks in the beginning, but Anet fixed that in Factions with Amber, Jade and a 10k Faction requirement to get elite Luxon/Kurzick armor. Nightfall has Elite Sunspear armor. Core has FoW.

As for the skills, most are effective at low levels. They are not necessary to complete the game.

Yes, grinding sucks. But quit acting like this is the first time it's shown up in Guild Wars. Take a break for a few months, and see if Anet adds more ways to get points. I'd be surprised if they didn't.

jkyarr · Sep 06, 2007, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcain

I can understand grinding for some nice title, but for Armor / Weapons access, is not needed. I really liked GW:EN and ended up beating it the 2nd day it was out. The main thing that is really pissing me off now, is the grind for armor...... yes I actually like a few of the "skins". I think once you beat the game, all crafter access for the factions should be open, leaving the grind for maxing out title and PVE skill power.

With work and in a few days here, college, I will not have any "grind time".

To quote one of my favorite people
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...97&postcount=5

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkyarr

I have to bring something up here. Y'all are working with the wrong understanding of what a grind is. You can't define it as the distance in effort between point/achievement A and point/achievement B. That's called a journey. Journeys typically consist of some sort of tasks. With gaming unless the number of instances where such tasks can be carried out are so few that the same encounters have to be reused, you don't really have a "grind". If you make your own choice to re-instantiate the same encounter repetitively then you are willfully making your own grind. When the storyarc, size of zones, and number of encounters are designed to allow you to progress through your objectives or tasks at an adequate rate (meaning it coincides with the timing of the story and plot-necessary events) then there is no inherent grind!

In this context, the complaint that you can't buy and sell from the NPCs in northern towns just because you think you should be able to, FAILS. Why? Because the story provides plot reasons for you to be restricted, and it provides you a means to overcome the restrictions. That's design, not grind. Honestly who's going to whine because the story requires them to do something? Or did I miss the thread where some asked to be able to ascend in pre-searing? Why can't I just win the game without even getting my character out of bed? I mean geeze Anet! Getting my character to walk is such a grind! Fix it!

Furthermore I don't believe for 1 second that someone who played through the entire expansion in 2 days after its release actually had the experience that the developers designed. What right does somebody b-lining for the end have to evaluate the balance of the game? Some game designs are poor (I'm talkin about you SWG) but as you play, anytime the answer to the question "am I having the experience that the designers intended me to have by playing the game this way?" is "no", your evaluation of the whole experience should be stated in that paradigm, not in absolutes.

Fact is there is no grind if you play as designed.

GW:EN is a "smell the roses" addition to the GW brand. Need proof? Look at the Black Moa Chick easter egg.

/end thread

Darkpower Alchemist · Sep 06, 2007, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcain

I have yet to find a fast way of gaining Vanguard points. Just so you know, Norn Dungeons were repeatable with great point gains, now all you get on repeating them is 100 points.
I have elite sets from all 3 Guild War games currently, and I like some of the new armor, but I will never have the time to grind title for 6 PVE characters who I also use for AB / RA.

For the record: I’ve finished GW:EN, I’ve beat most of the Dungeons I’ve turned in a finished hero book (2.5k Vanguard faction) yet I’m only rank 3 in Vanguard after clearing the Charr areas 100% w/bosses also.

I didn't read past this post, so beyond it doesn't concern me, but my Ranger is Stealth Agent(3) and I haven't bothered to attempt to beat the game yet. My book isn't half full. I'm taking my time and enjoying the game. What's the rush? "I beat the game in 2 days!", but why? "Grinding sucks!" "This is an RPG!" yet, in RPGs of all shapes and forms, I had to grind until lvl 50+ just to beat the damn last boss to "end" the game. FF3 and beyond made it where you needed to be minimum lvl 45 to even breath on the last boss in order to just kinda compete with its bosslike power. Do you want more cheese with your whine,good sir?

I'm also almost rank 4 norn and rank 4 delver since I love The Temple of The Damned, and I have a full time job with a wacky flipflopping schedule. My lady hates the game, but that doesn't stop her from getting her time and from me playing my game. It's only a grind if you don't want to play the game, my friend.

/stuff soapbox back under the table

Mineria · Sep 06, 2007, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surena

What's your problem with people who want armour now? Does it offend you because you like the grind and you believe it should be enforced on all?

How doest it work with max prophecies armor? (Droknar)
Faction Kurzick/Luxon/Imperial armor?
Nightfall elite and the vabian set?

For not to forget the fact that GW:EN is an exspansion for level 20 characters.
If you don't like to get the last rank by grind, then don't.
Just remember that you need to do a bit more to get the sets from the campaigns.