Curse

Dzan · Sep 09, 2007, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by nw5221

How do you know I don’t pull & just rush in, Einstein? It’s a lucky thing we have “geniuses” like you to straighten out the rest of us dumb yokels … Blow us all kiss [email protected] and get lost. – If only I was as cool as you are: then I’d really be something!

I'll say it again since you must have missed it back on page 2...

Quote:

If you can't beat a dungeon I have three pieces of advice that will let you beat every dungeon...

1. Learn to corner block.
2. Bring enough prot to keep your corner blocker alive.
3. Bring Broad Head Arrow to kill caster bosses at the end.

If you do all three of those things properly, you can't possibly lose.

Again, if you do those three things correctly you will not fail. Those three rules are the new holy trinity of guild wars.

Gigashadow · Sep 09, 2007, 10:28 PM // 22:28

The GW:EN content is harder than Nightfall, but this is made up for by the fact that the henchmen now have WAY better skill bars.

Some of the older builds are out of style, and if you are just using whatever setup you had from Nightfall, it might seem frustrating at first. I haven't been using searing flames, but minion masters still work well in most areas, as does a spiteful spirit curses necro.

I've found ward vs melee to be exceptionally useful. Bring the earth henchman, Herta. I have also started bringing ward vs melee on my warrior sometimes, so that I have complete control over where and when it gets placed. You can direct your heroes and henchmen to move into the ward if needed, or you can run and drop it around them defensively if they are already in the thick of things.

Etta · Sep 09, 2007, 10:31 PM // 22:31

OP, why don't you post a few pic of your team builds, skills bar etc etc. And what area or cave that you were having a hard time with? EotN's dificulty is just right, it's harder than the earlier chapters but not too hard that make it impossible.

tyrant rex · Sep 09, 2007, 10:33 PM // 22:33

if you cant beat all eotn content with you ,3 heros ,and 4 hench you are bad , that is all.

Etta · Sep 09, 2007, 10:46 PM // 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyrant rex

if you cant beat all eotn content with you ,3 heros ,and 4 hench you are bad , that is all.

this post made me lol, you came up with that yourself?

Vanessa Dwager · Sep 09, 2007, 10:47 PM // 22:47

Compared to the Realm of torment GW:EN is Preschool difficulty. Well, polycrap had me cursing in every language I know.

GW:EN gave me the challenge, but having been through 3 campaigns I've become so experianced and efficient at what I do nothing really gets that hard for me. I mean hell, Destroyers may do big damage but they have no healers. Margonites and abyssal demons do a lot of damage and they have healers WITH spell breaker.

Ebony Shadowheart · Sep 09, 2007, 11:02 PM // 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by acidic

learn 2 play, QQ more, MEnding and frenzy ftw

Learn to not be a jackass

Personally if you want to offer useless comments such as 'you're doing it wrong' at least offer some reasons why you feel this. Considering you're not playing WITH the OP I dount you know why he's having issues.

Many of you assume he just sucks, well I hate to tell you but everyone that plays does so differently. Thus, some people will find different areas harder or easier than others. Casual players that end up getting their ass kicked end up frutsrated and angry, thus tada this type of thread. Instead of trying to help said person too many of you offer no constructive critism; just blantant 'you suck' comments that do nothing but piss people off more.

That being said, wsper me in game some time Nw, I'll help you on any dungeon I have open.

wolfwing · Sep 09, 2007, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Well I did better on my second trip to beat the centaur boss in Slavers Exile with H+H, the only issue I'm having is multiple adds, or overly insane enemy pack size. I counted 10 in one pack, thats more then the player has and way more the average levels. I beat them, but it really ended up hit and run, and war of attrition.

Burst Cancel · Sep 09, 2007, 11:28 PM // 23:28

To all of those people suggesting that we should be more supportive and helpful, I'd like to point out that the OP has not given us any information to work with. Ranting - especially when the rant is entirely without merit - will only draw derision. Based on the tone of the OP's replies, I'm not even convinced they want help, frankly.

To whoever suggested that GW shouldn't be build-limited, down that path lies gaming utterly devoid of challenges. All skills are not equally good, nor are all combinations of said skills. It therefore stands to reason that, for any given situation, there is a best build or a subset of best builds. Game difficulty under such a scheme can then be considered as how close you have to get to that best build in order to succeed. The easiest areas are ones in which any old build will do, and the hardest ones require very specific builds and tactics. In other words, games that allow you to pick your own tools must necessarily require you to pick the best tools to some degree. If that were not the case, the game would be entirely too easy. Imagine GW designed so that any random skillbar could win - how difficult would such a game be for people who brought the most powerful skillbars?

Difficulty in GW has generally been low, and EoTN is no exception. Most of the areas can be done in one try without specialized preparation, and the rest might require a scouting pass to figure out exactly what you are facing, adjusting your team accordingly, and going back in to steamroll the place. That said, I do expect some challenge if/when EoTN hard mode is implemented.

Hyper.nl · Sep 09, 2007, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Shards of Orr and Frostman's Burrows (After preview weekend) were quite hard. I reached 60% dp with my hero/hench team. I've not been running specific builds tailored to the surroundings since I use a generally highly effective all-purp build.

For Frostman's I brought a load of consumables and festival powerup items which made it quite easily actually, but without them I would surely have failed.

(From 60 DP to 10 MB, +2 on all attib, +10 armor +4 health regen ftw)

Having that said, the main storyline was quite easy overall with a few hard parts here and there, but nothing too bad.

Darlichay Dalinar · Sep 09, 2007, 11:32 PM // 23:32

Definitely see a challenge come Hard Mode... I still think it was rushed, though, all the same. Agree on every other point you've made, however, Burst.

wolfwing · Sep 09, 2007, 11:37 PM // 23:37

Question about the consumables, can you have two consumables that give a bonus at the same time?

Molock · Sep 09, 2007, 11:37 PM // 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by reverse_oreo

Game is easy, please stop crying about the difficulty. The hardest monsters in the entire GW arsenal are the new dinosaurs. Destroyers are simple, charr are surprisingly easy. Please, rune up your heroes and win the game.

I agree, the only foes that made me wipe in EotN we're the dinosaurs.. So two wipes between two characters.. I beat EotN twice.

dbcoder · Sep 09, 2007, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Bring a prot monk that knows how to pre-prot. You can't fail.

Sab · Sep 10, 2007, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

How many of these unique characters do you see in PvP? How many builds are currently being used in the Hero Battles? This is the problem inherent in the current system. It has become completely cookie cutter and boring. Isn't one of the major points in playing a Role-playing type of game creating and playing a UNIQUE character??!! This is one of the big problems I had with the Boreas Seabed mission before the Heros came along. This is a mission where an Interrupter is necessary to defeat the end boss. None of the henchies are use those skills. If you're playing a character who doesn't have interrupts, you're screwed in this mission.

To me, having areas of an RPG came that require specific builds to be successful (such as the Magni tournament) is not a sign of a challenging game but a sign of poor design choices. Why give us such a large potential to create and play so many unique characters only to limit which ones can be successful going into the game? Anet should be designing combat to reward the diverse and unique builds not penalize them.

While I agree overall that being forced to bring skill X is bad design, I have to disagree about something here.

Cookie cutter does not necessarily mean boring. You see, cookie cutter builds become cookie cutter because they are effective, and they are effective because they are versatile. There are exceptions, such as Shadow Prison or Toxic Shock Assassins, but I'm talking about builds like Burning Arrow, Shock Axe, Dom Mes, etc. Their versatility brings a great deal of depth, and as such, there's a lot to be mastered in playing the build. This is where the fun lies - learning to play that build against different opponents in different situations.

But that's PvP - you play to win and you win by playing the best builds available. In PvE, you don't need to run specific builds to win, they simply allow you to roll through an area quicker. Aside from quests where the game dumps a skill on my skill bar to continue, I can beat most of GWEN with eight empty slots. And actually, I pretty much did, I had Echo + Fall Back, plus a bunch of other random skills to make things go faster. If I weren't there, my heroes and henchies would've done all the work, just a little slower.

Point being, in GWEN's main line of quests, you're not locked into a single build. Not even close. You can put literally any eight skills on your skill bar and win, provided that the rest of your team (heroes, henchies or humans) is decent. I'm guessing the OP's problem is having *four* badly set up skill bars. GWEN isn't *that* lenient, I'm afraid.

Floski · Sep 10, 2007, 12:14 AM // 00:14

The game is sorry that you can't run a metshower warrior/ele and be effective, but some combos are just bad. Learn a decent build, or come up with one that doesn't suck and you will win. Just don't say "I WISH I COULD USE THE AWESOME AOE POWER OF AN ELEMENTALIST BUT HAVE THE TANKING POWER OF A WARRIOR." and make some half assed bar.

Hanok Odbrook · Sep 10, 2007, 12:24 AM // 00:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

If anything, in dungeons, you get morale boost every 25 kills. If your party dies more often than that, yes - it's your fault.

Not necessarily. Even using flagging/pulling techniques, there were times where I saw a monk hero with 10% morale boost go down in less than six hits. After that, the second monk hero couldn't keep up and wiped before the first one was rezzed. And then it was the full party wipe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

If only this were multiplayer game, where one could ask someone for help with that.

Easier said then done. I prefer to play solo, but often times, simply do not have the time to be able to find a decent PUG or player to pair up with due to my "real life" scheduling and commitments. I decided to make GW my first MMO for many reasons, not the least of which was the no subscrip model, and the fact that it was geared towards the casual player, hence the first real soloable MMO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

Yea, magni and polymock are game-breaking.... /sarcasm

IT DOES. And this is why this thread came to be. Because SF/MM is no longer teh pwnz. And now everyone is scratching their heads as to why GW:EN is "hard".

Unique does not mean random 8 skills. Of all given options, most builds suck. But at very least with GW:EN, there's plenty of room for very diverse options.

GW is a game of builds. Not *A* build, but builds. People are asking for next holy trinity. But in GW:EN, such doesn't exist. What works in one dungeon, doesn't in other. So you need to adapt and improve.

You don't bring a knife to a gunfight, so you don't bring MM to a place with no corpses. A game cannot reward ignorance.

The reason people offer advice on builds, is because 98.5% of the time, people who are having trouble have:
- non-max armor
- non-working builds (heal sig, frenzy, gash, restore life)
- 280 health
- 2 SF and a MM in an area with no corpses and fire-immune mobs
and so on...
Yes, the choice of skills determines the outcome. But mentioning "wards" or "conditions" or "counters" doesn't help. So people offer synergetic builds.

This is a game of builds and skill, the choice of skills. Too many however are playing it like WoW.

WoW is designed from ground up to make you win. GW isn't. Of course, in a world where everyone is a winner, nobody is.

I never said any of this was game-breaking - it's just very disappointing that we have to resort to a small handful of builds in order to be successful. Magni is the perfect example of the flaw in the system - the tournament is either impossible (wrong build) or way too easy (the right build). The reason for this is that most combat is centered around Offensive capabilities. Shut down the offense, and it's a cake walk. Change the system to be more Defensive, and it will make it more challenging without having to change out a favorite build.

Why can't I play an MM in the tournament? Well, first there are no exploitable corpses, unless you have a pet that gets killed off. Secondly, playing an MM with only minion skills IS inherently stupid. Can you get through any given part of the game this way - yes, but it's a limiting build. However, why not give an proper Death/MM build a shot in this tournament by having opponents leave exploitable corpses - for one thing, it would make it a whole lot of fun just to watch the carnage as you progress through matches.

Again, look at PvP, and the Hero Battles in particular. Everyone and their grandmother is running the same Team Build at this point. I used to love playing HB before the recent changes. There was a lot of variety and there were a lot of great matches I had the chance to participate in. Now it's completely uninteresting to me. When I get really bored, I experiement with a counter to the Cookie Cutter, but I don't want to end up having to run this counter exclusively. I want to be able to pick a build and go have some fun trying something different.

The same goes for PvE. I don't want to run a build or use skill sets that everyone else is using just to be able to play through dungeons or missions. I want to play the builds I have used through each of the three campaigns in the last 2 and half years because those are the ones I have had the most fun with, and enjoy playing. Of course not every possible choice is going to work, such as loading up a Warrior's Swordsmanship attribute, but using an Axe with Hammer Master skills. That's just common sense. However, upon building and learning to use a great Hammer Warrior, I shouldn't get to an area that basically says, "Sorry, all mobs here are Hammer Immune, you are now useless to your party, go try something else." To me, that's just a cop out on the creator's part. It should be up to them to make the area challenging, even to a Hammer Warrior and not just exclude them from all the fun.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

Does Insidious Parasite matter?

Not in and of itself.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

Elushia · Sep 10, 2007, 12:26 AM // 00:26

EotN is supposed to bring along new challenges, new places, and new heros to play Guild Wars with.

The normal storyline, I say, is easy doing the missions and all that, but anything that relates to a dungeon that doesn't have Irontoe in it is a different story.

The new dungeons are supposed to give you some great things that you need to actually work for instead of run in and grab it.

It could be the fact of what skills your heros are using. For example, putting Renew Life in a Hero's skillbar may make them run to the frontlines under fire to rezz a tank. Most of the time they'll die. Its better to bring a ranged rezz on them so, in the case the frontline is under fire, they have a better surviving rate. Special note to Zhed users because I noticed he DOES go to you when you die and try to rezz you (being whatever rezz).

Also, try bringing self heals because any healer can't heal you all the time. Try to get one that has a short casting time and recharge like Lion's Comfort and Shadow Refuge.

Another is that some skills enemies use aren't typical in normal GW enviroment. Example for that is Visions of Regret which is normally end game area in Nightfall but its practically at where you enter GW:EN for the first time. Interruptions are very useful in GW/EN because of some of the new skills (Wurm Bile) and different npc skill bars.

Mac Sidewinder · Sep 10, 2007, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etta

OP, why don't you post a few pic of your team builds, skills bar etc etc. And what area or cave that you were having a hard time with? EotN's dificulty is just right, it's harder than the earlier chapters but not too hard that make it impossible.

Lol after reading 4 pages of; you suck, you're a noob, and my personal favorite "get less bad", do you really think the OP would ping their build here? It would be another 4 pages of the same insulting crap.

Personally I don't think EOTN is that hard but at least give the guy a break. Post more helpful things. I did see that he/she got runes for his/her heroes and that helped - which this was suggested in another post. Things like that help, the "get more skill" attitude/response doesn't.

This is one of the very few forums I have seen that you are immediately jumped on when you have a problem or ask a question.

knoll · Sep 10, 2007, 01:06 AM // 01:06

Pull. Use decent heros with health, meaniing dont go in there with 440 health on all your guys. Know what creatures do and adjust to it. Simple.