Curse

Hanok Odbrook · Sep 09, 2007, 09:25 AM // 09:25

I see a lot of people here suggesting or mentioning builds, but does no see that this is part of the problem?

There are 10 primary professions in GW. Since each PvE character is required to take on a secondary, that give us 9 basic builds for each character, totaling up to a base of 90 unique profession combos. Add to that each of the different Attributes assigned to each profession, and we literally have hundreds of possible unique combinations. Through into the mix the recently added PvE only skills that are not tied to an attribute, and we probably now have the potential to have thousands of completely unique characters.

How many of these unique characters do you see in PvP? How many builds are currently being used in the Hero Battles? This is the problem inherent in the current system. It has become completely cookie cutter and boring. Isn't one of the major points in playing a Role-playing type of game creating and playing a UNIQUE character??!! This is one of the big problems I had with the Boreas Seabed mission before the Heros came along. This is a mission where an Interrupter is necessary to defeat the end boss. None of the henchies are use those skills. If you're playing a character who doesn't have interrupts, you're screwed in this mission.

To me, having areas of an RPG came that require specific builds to be successful (such as the Magni tournament) is not a sign of a challenging game but a sign of poor design choices. Why give us such a large potential to create and play so many unique characters only to limit which ones can be successful going into the game? Anet should be designing combat to reward the diverse and unique builds not penalize them.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

PS - Just because Anet has now given us the Powerstone of Courage, doesn't mean we should be required to use it. Just because our characters can die doesn't mean they have to design areas where death of any party member is going to be a given. Why not just put a magically sealed door at the end of each dungeon requiring all members in the party to have 60% DP in order to pass? It just doesn't make sense. Give me a challenge, but don't take the shorcuts in order to make something harder than it actually is.\

PPS to Darkobra - my Assassin would own you - I use a build where blinding doesn't matter - and I'm keeping that secret to myself!! ;P

Holly Herro · Sep 09, 2007, 09:31 AM // 09:31

I had to get a new screen when going through pre-seer.

wolfwing · Sep 09, 2007, 09:31 AM // 09:31

Only problem I have with the expansion is the dumbing down of hero's *why the heck are my ranged guys running repeatedly into close range with eneemies and getting slaughtered?

Though one issue I have that IS Anet's fault and I can't seem to find a solution, is the HUGE adds you get. Some dungeons slavers for example, you will pull1 guy from a single group and you get 4 groups chasing you for no reason. Why is it that when I pull a wretched wolf group 3 unrelated groups follow? I've sat and watched this happen many times, I'm being swarmmed by enemies ANyone else noticing the overly agro nature of groups?

Antheus · Sep 09, 2007, 11:31 AM // 11:31

Quote:

Just because our characters can die doesn't mean they have to design areas where death of any party member is going to be a given.

Where is such a dungeon? DoA HM isn't that bad. And there's nothing in any of the storyline dungeons that are even remotely hard.

If anything, in dungeons, you get morale boost every 25 kills. If your party dies more often than that, yes - it's your fault.

Quote:

This is one of the big problems I had with the Boreas Seabed mission before the Heros came along. This is a mission where an Interrupter is necessary to defeat the end boss. None of the henchies are use those skills. If you're playing a character who doesn't have interrupts, you're screwed in this mission.

If only this were multiplayer game, where one could ask someone for help with that.

Quote:

(such as the Magni tournament)

Yea, magni and polymock are game-breaking.... /sarcasm

Quote:

Anet should be designing combat to reward the diverse and unique builds not penalize them.

IT DOES. And this is why this thread came to be. Because SF/MM is no longer teh pwnz. And now everyone is scratching their heads as to why GW:EN is "hard".

Unique does not mean random 8 skills. Of all given options, most builds suck. But at very least with GW:EN, there's plenty of room for very diverse options.

GW is a game of builds. Not *A* build, but builds. People are asking for next holy trinity. But in GW:EN, such doesn't exist. What works in one dungeon, doesn't in other. So you need to adapt and improve.

You don't bring a knife to a gunfight, so you don't bring MM to a place with no corpses. A game cannot reward ignorance.

The reason people offer advice on builds, is because 98.5% of the time, people who are having trouble have:
- non-max armor
- non-working builds (heal sig, frenzy, gash, restore life)
- 280 health
- 2 SF and a MM in an area with no corpses and fire-immune mobs
and so on...

Yes, the choice of skills determines the outcome. But mentioning "wards" or "conditions" or "counters" doesn't help. So people offer synergetic builds.

This is a game of builds and skill, the choice of skills. Too many however are playing it like WoW.

WoW is designed from ground up to make you win. GW isn't. Of course, in a world where everyone is a winner, nobody is.

Quote:

my Assassin would own you - I use a build where blinding doesn't matter - and I'm keeping that secret to myself!!

Does Insidious Parasite matter?

damack x · Sep 09, 2007, 11:40 AM // 11:40

It's not hard at all in my opinion, some dungeons are hard but that's good. What would most players think if dungeons weren't hard/challenging?

So far I've done everything with H/H...some things were a bit frustrating but some dungeons I complete in 30 mins now, instead of the 90 mins the first time..

GW:EN is all about tactics.

FeroxC · Sep 09, 2007, 11:58 AM // 11:58

I just got the game and heres my first experiance in a dungeon(drakkar lake):

As soon as i entered the first dungeon with my inadequate team the frustraition kicked in, wtf are these boobie traps, how do you open the doors etc.

When some of my casters got DP i should of resigned but didnt. Even though i was killing the mobs the odd warrior kept picking of a caster resulting in 60dp all around which made the progress painfully slow, but still progress right ?

I finally got to level 2 and met a lovely level 29 ele boss, near instant wipe. I pulled the few guys from around him killed them off then set the 8 man party on him, wipe. Try again, wipe. Look his health regenerates realy slow keep trying, wipe,wipe,wipe,wipe,wipe ok his tiny health regen is more than the damage we can dish out before the team gets wiped.

Id never been so frustraited, i knew i should of resigned alot earlier.

Hope that cheers you up :P

TabascoSauce · Sep 09, 2007, 11:59 AM // 11:59

This thread so perfectly illustrates why other MMO fanboards constantly point to us as the epitome of an understanding, supportive, helpful community.

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

Free Runner · Sep 09, 2007, 12:04 PM // 12:04

1 BHA ranger hero,good luring and flagging your heros make these dungeons easy. If you dont have Factions take Zho and you will see how much of a difference an interupter makes

Antheus · Sep 09, 2007, 12:12 PM // 12:12

Quote:

wtf are these boobie traps, how do you open the doors etc.

Hmm, I already like this dungeon.

Quote:

Id never been so frustraited, i knew i should of resigned alot earlier.

Here's the real question. Did you learn from the mistakes, will you try to correct them, improve the build, pulling, try to find counters to mobs?

Or will you go again, with same build, again zerging until DP-ed out?

many dungeons don't work out in the first try. The key is to *improve*, and try again, not repeatedly trying to complete and failing every time.

PS. The end boss in that mission is tough, that's why the rez shrine is right around the corner.

Lil Mystique · Sep 09, 2007, 12:55 PM // 12:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by themickman

nw5221, can i take a wild guess and say that you are an assassin primary?

Be nice to assassins ;p My boyfriend and I finished EOTN with us both playing assassin and using only our heroes. We took a prot hero and a healer hero and varied the others as needed. Also, extinguish is invaluable in certain areas (i.e. the burning forest). As other posters have already said it's all about trial and error. Personally, I am glad it is difficult and makes you think. I love a good challenge

Dark Interception · Sep 09, 2007, 01:13 PM // 13:13

Like said a million times allready the key is to adapt, ive nearly cleared every dungeon now and almost never did I do it with the same setup, for example .. the shards of orr was very frustrating at first cause I used my 2 W/ earth shakers and melee buff P/ soon I saw all the blinds and kd's and (finally) good monks they had and quickly I dp'd to 60% so I switched to an Unsteady ground warder with ward against melee/stability zhed as savannah heat, vekk as ward against harm water ele and Ogden as a SoJ smiter with smite hex/condition/boon .. just blew erverything up .. and as for the post about the lvl 29 water ele boss, its a caster, theres a million ways to deal with a caster I for example took gwen with me and she just diversioned/power locked everything, tadaaaa.

jon0592 · Sep 09, 2007, 01:58 PM // 13:58

It's prett easy, you just have to change up your build. The only hard creatures are the dinosaurs since they patrol so much, but you won't be in those zones for a long time anyways.

Prophecies - managable
Factions - I hated it
NF - Pretty balanced

Factions....oh em gee. The afflicted are so messed up...and the henchmen you get in K-Center or Marketplace can't even handle them...I know you get 1 monk which means to use the Rt hench to heal also, but he spends his time running around and only making 1 spirit. By the time he gets his spirits down 4/8 of us are dead and are able to move onto the next group...

Crom The Pale · Sep 09, 2007, 01:59 PM // 13:59

The difficulty lvl here is geared towards people that have completed at least one if not all 3 chapters. It is not unreasonably hard.

I have bested the entire GW:EN with only heros and hench. Yes at times this meant I was battling in a dungeon with 60% dp, but If you understand the game mechanics this is not that much of a problem. Basically all dp does is change how you approach a foe and how long it takes to complete a dungeon/quest.

The fact that 60% dp doesnt warp my party out of a dungeon(as it does on hard mode) thrills me.

I was recently attempting part of The Last Hierophant, my party was wiped and resurected at a shrine surrounded by a large mob. I flagged my heros and pulled the mob away from the shrine, this took several attempts and left me with a full party of 60%dp.
However after I managed to pull them away I was able to start chipping away at them, pulling in wanderers and killing my way to the boss at the end.
Selvetarm wasn't all that hard once I took out his protectors.

Stuborness is the key to winning in some of these dungeons, maybe thats not what you want, pehaps it is not fun to have such a challenge for you. If this is the case avoid the Master Difficulty dungeons as they are ment for more skilled and determined players.

Epinephrine · Sep 09, 2007, 02:01 PM // 14:01

I'm going to side with the "learn to play" calls here.

If it's not part of the basic plot stream it doesn't have to be easy - even then, some challenges are expected.

I have yet to find anything that difficult. Using the lump on your shoulders helps a lot. I do sympathise with people who run into difficulties, but calling for it to be easier is not the right solution if other people are enjoying the challenges, and beating them. The reason there are so many different dungeons and levels of challenge is to allow people to play where they want. If you don't like the difficulty, play another part. There is no requirement to do them all. Ruining dungeons for others because you want an easier time isn't a solution. If it were part of the required plot and 90% of people couldn't do it I'd agree that there would be a problem, but optional dungeon content in a difficult area being inaccessible to some is perfectly fine. I'm tired of "lowest common denominator" difficulties.

Jeremy Untouchable · Sep 09, 2007, 02:02 PM // 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzan

If you can't beat a dungeon I have three pieces of advice that will let you beat every dungeon...

1. Learn to corner block.
2. Bring enough prot to keep your corner blocker alive.
3. Bring Broad Head Arrow to kill caster bosses at the end.

If you do all three of those things properly, you can't possibly lose.

QFT.......Its pretty simple. Most of the people i have been talking to find EOTN too easy in spots. Most of the dungeons are just hard enough to be fun. They are Nowhere near as hard as DOA

Dirty Savage · Sep 09, 2007, 02:34 PM // 14:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by nw5221

I have been playing Guild Wars since July of 2005. I have purchased all of the new games, as well as the new expansion. I’ve been looking forward to “Eye of the North” ever since I read about it. I enjoy GW immensely but I have to tell you that I am also VERY FRUSTRATED!!

With every new game, I’ve grown more and more irritated at the unrealistic difficulty in certain areas. I understand that there has to be a degree of challenge, but the game is becoming 90% aggravation. The quests in the dungeons are next to impossible to complete. Within 2 minutes the entire party has a -60% death penalty. The foes are not only unrealistically ultra-powerful but there are times that I’ll attack a group of 5 and within seconds every red dot on the mini-map is drawn in and ‘suddenly’ I’m fighting 30. And that’s a “lovely” experience if you happen to be near a resurrection shrine. Because the AI isn’t smart enough to Rez away from the foes…So I get to experience the “joy” of getting slaughtered 50 times.

I have tried several quests 4 or 5 times only to quit in frustration. I’ve tried with henchmen and I’ve tried with real players. I’ve yet to complete them.

I’m at a point where I’m about to quit.

You can't just rush in and fight mobs like this. The formula for success is really quite simple. Step 1: Flag heroes/henchmen back. Step 2: get yourself a longbow, creep up and shoot the first enemy and then run back towards your flagged heroes/henchmen. Yeah, it takes forever doing this - Frostmaw's Burrow took me over two hours to complete - but it is such a simple solution. Threads like this always make me giggle because you just know the poster has absolutely no pulling skills.

Iuris · Sep 09, 2007, 02:42 PM // 14:42

Quote:

Only problem I have with the expansion is the dumbing down of hero's *why the heck are my ranged guys running repeatedly into close range with eneemies and getting slaughtered?

Possibly they ate trying to use throw dirt.

SotiCoto · Sep 09, 2007, 02:48 PM // 14:48

More difficulty =/= more fun.

People who tell others to suck less =/= center of Universe... nor even remotely important. The "I can suck my own **** therefore everyone should be able to" attitude is hardly endearing.

And a word to those: Be less tarded.

nw5221 · Sep 09, 2007, 02:50 PM // 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty Savage

You can't just rush in and fight mobs like this. The formula for success is really quite simple. Step 1: Flag heroes/henchmen back. Step 2: get yourself a longbow, creep up and shoot the first enemy and then run back towards your flagged heroes/henchmen. Yeah, it takes forever doing this - Frostmaw's Burrow took me over two hours to complete - but it is such a simple solution. Threads like this always make me giggle because you just know the poster has absolutely no pulling skills.

How do you know I don’t pull & just rush in, Einstein? It’s a lucky thing we have “geniuses” like you to straighten out the rest of us dumb yokels … Blow us all kiss [email protected] and get lost. – If only I was as cool as you are: then I’d really be something!

Darkobra · Sep 09, 2007, 02:54 PM // 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

More difficulty =/= more fun.

People who tell others to suck less =/= center of Universe... nor even remotely important. The "I can suck my own **** therefore everyone should be able to" attitude is hardly endearing.

And a word to those: Be less tarded.

You're asking a bit much from them; they struggle to type more than 12 words before collapsing in on themselves.