Curse

Vincent Ritz · Nov 18, 2005, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Just a thought, but wouldn't life attunement be a good self-maintained enchantment for a gear tank? They're not attacking anything, so the +% healing would help the monks out a bunch.

Haven't had a chance to try it yet, but if you could cover it, it would help a bunch.

Of course this only applies to W/Mo, but it helps a lot more than mending.

darkMiskin: In place of shield stance, you can use disciplined stance... you can still use other skills (except for adrenals) and still have a 75% CTB

Savio · Nov 18, 2005, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Life Attunement works pretty well. One of my friends casts it on me as part of a modified bond build. I don't see the point of self-casting it as it'd require you to put points into Protection, which the Monk already has from doing Life Bond. I just focus on stances and Ob Flesh when I feel like it. Come to think of it, sometimes I didn't even do anything and just let the healers deal with the damage.

Arianna Starbreeze · Nov 18, 2005, 07:17 PM // 19:17

I love Life Attunement. When my husband and I play in Sorrow's, we usually play the monks, with me as healer and him as Prot. He has life attunement in his build as well as barrier and bond with max protection points. It makes my job soooooo much easier.

Funk ee Monk ee · Nov 22, 2005, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Why is everyone using endure/defy pain? Sure 1k HP looks nice, except when those 400 HP drop off at at once. This seemed so simple to me, thought everyone was using it. I have farmed 3 man fairly esaily when a teammate drops. Oh well, here's my W/Mo build just in case I team up with some of you while I am monking or MM'ing:

Shield of Judgement - or Gladiators Defense (if monk is not so good at healing)
Defensive Stance
Bon Defense
Smite Hex
Holy Strike
Banish
Bal Spirit
-- Symbol of Wrath --

I have removed symb of wrath since aoe patch, not sure what i am goind to replace it with. Perhaps Bane Signet? Bane sig, holy strike, banish cast while SoJ is on would be roughly 400-500 damage/10 secs depending on how many times the enemy attacks. Anyway, Bal Spirit keeps your adrenaline and energy recharging at a good clip and you can do pretty good damage using 9 axe, 12 smite and balance in tactics (forget actual number).

wawawa64 · Nov 28, 2005, 07:08 AM // 07:08

I am starting this thread in the hope of increasing rangers' popularity in SF. This is aiming at the 5 men farming build with a tank holding a gear/key and a protection monk with Life bond and Life barrier casted on the tank.

With protection at 16, Life bond can reduce attack damage by 50% and Life barrier can reduce all damage by 50%. This means Life bond + Life barrier can reduce attack damage to .5*.5 = .25 = 25% and all other type of damage (including spells) to 50%.

Now, let's talking about why a ranger can be a better gear/key tank than a warrior. First of all, ranger has a lot of stances that evade attacks. So with Life bond + Life barrier + stance, rangers are well protected against attack damage. But, warriors have better physical armor than rangers, so warriors are better in this case . However, rangers have MUCH better armor against elemental spells/attacs, and since Life bond + Life barrier only give 50% reduction in spells damage and most stances don't avoid elemental spell attacks, rangers are actually better protected against elemental spells attack than warriors.

Second of all, while the warrior is holding a gear/key, he's not doing a lot of damage at all since he can't attack with his weapons. On the other hand, a ranger, while holding a gear/key, can still attack with traps (R/Me with Mantra of XXX), touches (R/N with vampric touches) and smites (R/Mo better than W/Mo because of Rangers' better energy). IMO, this is one major advantage that rangers have over warriors as gear/key tanks.

So after reading this thread, I hope people can give rangers a chance in SF

and people will be spamming GLF trapping, touches or smite ranger gear/key tank !!!!!

w00t! · Nov 28, 2005, 07:18 AM // 07:18

A ranger can theoretically tank nearly as well as a warrioor, but what's the point?

After the nuker nerf, a ranger is an integral part of any SF team. Take barrage and an interrupt or two, and you're all set. With barrage and a zealous bow string, you can DoT as well as any nuker, and nearly as well as a minion master. And with a few stances thrown in, you can avoid damage when and if needed.

So don't sell short the value of a ranger as a damage dealer and interrupter. Rangers are nearly as good at tanking as a warrior, but why settle for that?

You probably don't want to be on any team that doesn't recognize the Ranger's value post-nerf.

VGJustice · Nov 28, 2005, 07:21 AM // 07:21

I don't think that there's anything new about a dodge-tank build. But, I'd like to remind you that most people don't like to think and only look at the basic builds, not potential.

But, then again, thanks for the Ranger love.

wawawa64 · Nov 28, 2005, 07:38 AM // 07:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by w00t!

A ranger can theoretically tank nearly as well as a warrioor, but what's the point?

After the nuker nerf, a ranger is an integral part of any SF team. Take barrage and an interrupt or two, and you're all set. With barrage and a zealous bow string, you can DoT as well as any nuker, and nearly as well as a minion master. And with a few stances thrown in, you can avoid damage when and if needed.

So don't sell short the value of a ranger as a damage dealer and interrupter. Rangers are nearly as good at tanking as a warrior, but why settle for that?

You probably don't want to be on any team that doesn't recognize the Ranger's value post-nerf.

I agree with you. But the majority of peopel don't see rangers' value. How often do you see people spamming GLF rangers in SF (maybe some in UW trapping team)? All they think are tanks, healers and nukers. So hopefully people can 'start' seeing rangers' value starting with the most simple tank/nuker/healer combo. Many people have already talked about how rangers can spam barrage and do better than nukers, now I am trying to let people know rangers can tank better than warriors as well.

Cirian · Nov 29, 2005, 01:41 PM // 13:41

Just as I like to think of Wa/Mo's as paladins, so I think the name of vampire is appropriate for this R/N beastie below.

The ranger I'm having a lot of success with at the moment is a 16 expertise / 12 blood magic / 4 wilderness survival build built around stances and touch attacks. There are variations I can make on the skill bar (including the choice of elite), but it goes something like this:

1. Distracting Shot or Plague Touch
2. Vampiric Touch (65 life steal, 2s recast, 5 energy)
3. Touch of Agony (50 shadow damage, 3s recast, 10% sacrifice, 2 energy)
4. Throw Dirt (16 second aoe blind, 2 energy)
5. Troll Unguent (5 pips, 2 energy) or Rez Signet
6. Escape[Elite] (18s evasion, 30s recast, 2 energy)
7. Lightning Reflexes (11s evasion, 45s recast, 4 energy)
8. Whirling Defence (21s blocking, 60s recast, 4 energy)

There's enough duration on the stances to have only 1 second without some sort of 75% defence up all the time. Generally I rotate Escape -> Lightning -> Escape -> Whirling, rinse and repeat. Throw Dirt is mainly for saving other people and it lasts a reasonable time.

The touch attacks allow you to hold the gear while still dealing damage. You can sacrifice life with Touch of Agony and then steal it back with Vampiric Touch. 115 damage dealt for 7 energy on a 3s recast. If Plague Touch is equipped, poisons and bleeds from enemy archers can be tranfered to enemy targets for 2 energy a time. As all of these abilities are 'skills' not 'attacks' or 'spells', they have enormous benefits that become apparent as they are used, ie, they ignore enemy stances, ripostes, backfire, spell breaker and so on and in addition are very fast cast / recast.

There are other variants utilizing Offering of Blood, Awaken the Blood and Dodge.

My regular weapons are a collector's blood wand (11-22 dark damage, faster recharge) and a droknar's blood idol (+1 blood, +30 life, +12 energy), with a bow I can swap in for situational Distracting Shot moments (assuming I take it). The dark wand bypasses + physical / elemental armour bonuses on warriors / rangers, which is nice, but the touches are so fast to recast that it isn't relied on too much at all.

Sk8tborderx · Nov 30, 2005, 06:02 PM // 18:02

I just have 1 question.... when are people going to realize that earth eles are 20 times better at gear/keg/book tanking than warriors will ever be?

Red Sonya · Dec 01, 2005, 09:02 AM // 09:02

Life Attunement (need monk enchants to keep this active) 36% more HP when healed is great here. If monk brings this I bring restore life instead.
Sprint
Wary Stance
Watch Yourself
Bonettis Defense
Endure Pain
Defy Pain
Reversal of Fortune

Works for me.

Savio · Dec 01, 2005, 09:04 AM // 09:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8tborderx

I just have 1 question.... when are people going to realize that earth eles are 20 times better at gear/keg/book tanking than warriors will ever be?

We tried that already and it didn't work. Perhaps you have some build you'd like to share?

unienaule · Dec 01, 2005, 09:05 AM // 09:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8tborderx

I just have 1 question.... when are people going to realize that earth eles are 20 times better at gear/keg/book tanking than warriors will ever be?

I've tried this, and the main flaw in SF is Cast Times + Cry of Frustration = FTL.

jray14 · Dec 02, 2005, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

We tried that already and it didn't work. Perhaps you have some build you'd like to share?

I use a Mesmer (gasp!) gear-tank in SF

Me/E
Inspiration = 14
Earth Magic = 12
Fast Casting = 4

Mantra of Resolve
Arcane Echo
Obsidian Flesh
Armor of Earth
Crystal Wave
Inspired Enchantment
Inspired Hex
Channeling

Keep Mantra of Resolve up at all times to make yourself immune to all interrupts except occasional knockdowns (easy with duration=90 and recharge=20). Echo Obsidian Flesh and keep it up as much as possible (somewhat difficult due to OF's duration=18 and recharge=30 and AE's recharge=30... you'll have gaps, but read further for how to deal with them). Keep Armor of Earth up at all times (easy with duration=30 and recharge=15). Use Crystal Wave for 82 AOE damage every 20 sec (unless one of your nukers has a condition degen build). If you find yourself needing to re-cast Mantra of Resolve (or Armor of Earth) while Obsidian Flesh is recharging, cast a few cheap Inspired Enchantment's or Inspired Hex's to soak up the Cry of Frustration interrupts from any nearby mesmer enemies first. Otherwise use Inspired Hex to remove extra hexes from yourself and Inspired Enchantment to remove Mark of Protection from those annoying monk enemies. Keep Channeling up at all times to give yourself virtually infinite energy to keep this all up (easy with duration=56 recharge=15).

There are many variations on this too. You might try substituting in Aftershock or some mesmer interrupts for extra offense. Or tone down Inspiration and crank up Fire and add some fire offense such as Lava Burst or Phoenix. Or ditch Crystal Wave and add Kinetic Armor for extra defense, and maintain it with cheap and intentionally mis-aimed Inspired Hex/Enchantment casts (they recharge instantly if cast on someone without a hex/enchantment). If you're lucky enough to have a teammate willing to cast Balthazar's Spirit on you, you can ditch Channeling.

The biggest downside is the slow movement rate. Warrior gear-tanks can bring Sprint to help them get around faster. But I think it's fun anyway

.

And I suppose a mirror-image E/Me with Earth=14 might work better, but I don't have an Ele character to try it out.

Chyvaelry · Sep 30, 2007, 04:48 AM // 04:48

Nice build Jray, I'll hafta give it a whirl!

Captain Arne Is PRO · Sep 30, 2007, 05:23 AM // 05:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chyvaelry

Nice build Jray, I'll hafta give it a whirl!

You realize... that this thread is two years old and gear tanking is no longer a viable tactic?

strcpy · Sep 30, 2007, 09:14 AM // 09:14

I was curious if the gear trick worked again - there was an update many a moon ago that fixed it.

Powerful thread necromancy going on here, more than I have seen in some time (good luck getting the current search function of finding anything close to what you want). By all means try the build - however keep in mind with a thread Necromancy of 20 (or greater) that things are not always as written While old threads may be resurrected the rest of the world has moved on and can not be rolled back at least without a significant amount of points in "Control of Anet". As far as I know is a primary attribute of the handful of managers/owners of the company and you have to be granted that class, not simply choose it.

SnipiousMax · Oct 02, 2007, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Wow, old thread.

Closing to prevent misinformation.