Curse

yesitsrob · Nov 09, 2007, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karia Mirniman

WHAT ASTONISHING ARROGANCE.

So the thousands of Level 20 players who have played sufficiently long enough and become skilled enough to reach Drakkar Lake and complete A Hunter's Pride are SCRUB NOBODIES.

My guild drops people like you when they appear. Elitism and selfishness does nothing for the game or the community.

Ok.

it was a bit of a harshly blunt way to put it. I should have just said "bad players"

When we first started doing DoA we didn't use SY, Racthoh's para is without doubt the main source of passive defense in the builds we run, but thats mainly because that's all the needs to be, there's many alternatives out there really but it would be taking offensive skill slots out for more defensive ones, which generally is just going to make it slower.

DivineEnvoy · Nov 09, 2007, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

I'll address this because it's a valid point. In December there was a tournament where only Nightfall and Core skills were allowed. The fact that it even existed is proof that with only Nightfall, you can make a build. Especially for PvE.

What you lose as a monk without the other two chapters, in terms of viable skills:

Prophecies;
Kiss
RC

Factions;
Spirit Bond
Gift
Signet of Rejuvinattion

What you still have in Nightfall/core/EotN (well balanced monk setup)

Light of Deliverance / Zealous Benediction, both solid monk elites for different styles of play and areas.

Reversal of Fortune, the key monk skill.

Protective Spirit, reducing mass damage in Hard Mode.

Guardian/Shield of Absorption, efficient small prots.

Words of Comfort, direct target 5e heal.

Dismiss Condition, condi removal and heal.

Holy Veil and Cure Hex, strong hex removals.

Basically, all the components of a balanced monk build are still there. No real major restrictions on play are on your friend. Would he learn this if he relied on Ursan?

Let's say he's about to vanquish an area with a lot of condition outputs; normally, we would bring Restore Condition to it; since he does not have that, perhaps he can waste two to three slots for condition removals, right? How's that balanced? This is only for monks, there are other professions in the game as well. Truly, it has been unfair for players who only own a limited number of campaigns.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

I cleared Urgoz' Warren while I didn't even find out yet what attribute points were, being a little social goes a long way (Hello team I am an enormous noob so show me around a bit). I still don't get it why a game should be balanced around people that are baed. And you can play in HA at any time, you just won't win halls. Competitive PvP means there will be...competition.

Yeah but if it wasn't for GW, that why would we be on this forum in the first place. Stop saying from people that discuss the game on guru that they have no life. There really isn't anything else to discuss on a game forum now is there?

Most of us are in small guilds, and even inactive guilds. Hence, we have to find pick up groups for places such as HA, and thus ranks will be required. Due to his late start, things have been unfair for him. Who is really going to teach him what to do, and how can he learn to HA without any ranks?

You misinterepted what I said. I have never stated that people who discuss the game on Guru here have no lives. I am basically saying that life is already painful enough itself, especially more painful if you are in a post-secondary. So why should we have it harder in a game that's supposed to be fun?

Quote:

Originally Posted by reverse_oreo

In closing, we can beat doa without gimmicks, pve skills, consumables, etc... people who run UrsanWay cant. Simple.

Two monks are capable of solo-ing Temple on Hard Mode by themselves. I don't care what you use, but it's overpowered, so you have to solo like them because that's what I believe it's right. (/Sarcasm)
Sound's wrong, doesn't it? That's basically what you are telling the rest of us.

This discussion really reminds me of how a nearby university lowered its entrance requirement, and people were complaining how their degrees have been degraded. Relevantly, Guild Wars is not a university, where we have to learn Quantum uncertainties or learn how to find the third degree of Taylor series in a given equation, even to the degree where people's SAT scores are required. It's a game after all. If you like to challenge yourself, go ahead, use non-pve-only skills. If you have an exam or a certain event you have to attend tommorrow, and you would like to vanquish an area tonight, sure, use Ursan Blessing. I really don't see the reason why everyone must use the former way.

GloryFox · Nov 09, 2007, 01:27 AM // 01:27

Pairs of Monks would clear UW, thats just two people. Now I see teams of 8 Ursanway through it.

Before 2

Now 8

Whats wrong with that?

angmar_nite · Nov 09, 2007, 01:35 AM // 01:35

Pair of monks takes a lot more time. AND coordination. AND dedication. AND expertise on UW

trobinson97 · Nov 09, 2007, 02:22 AM // 02:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by angmar_nite

Pair of monks takes a lot more time. AND coordination. AND dedication. AND expertise on UW

Sounds like UB is the same way, except it takes less time, and you're using a full group.

Crom The Pale · Nov 09, 2007, 02:29 AM // 02:29

In the end the absolute undeniable truth is this is a video game.

Players of all skill levels purchased this game to play and enjoy themselves.

The 'Elite' players believe they need something to hold over the heads of other people. They get mad when something comes along and makes the 'hard work' they put into playing this video game less of an accomplishment.

This is akin to Deep Blue beating Garry Kasparov.

Its not fair that something came along and depreciated them in thier own eyes.

If your self esteem is so closely tied to a video game that you get upset when a group of 'scrubs' or 'noobs' can defeat a 3D animated monkey you have a very serious problem on your hands.

GloryFox · Nov 09, 2007, 02:58 AM // 02:58

Quote:

The 'Elite' players believe they need something to hold over the heads of other people. They get mad when something comes along and makes the 'hard work' they put into playing this video game less of an accomplishment.

Hey... casting that Protective Spirit spell is so much hard work, so is using Blessed Signet when maintaining any Bonds you have up.

As we all know damage control makes people feel so "Elite" these days.

draxynnic · Nov 09, 2007, 03:09 AM // 03:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcsumo

Also I wouldn't be overly comfortable, in a team where 1 player is the difference between success and failure. I know you all have to do your jobs right and that you are all very good players. But the fact remains, if you replaced Rac's para with General Morgahn, set up as a motivation healer type, (ie nobody has SY and TNTF) your team would fail spectacularly. Thus if that player had connection problems or some other reason they had to leave your run is over. At least if we lose a bear, we have a fighting chance to carry on if we play really well.

Most teams are like that - losing the wrong person can be a huge hit to your chance of success. You say you can survive losing a bear with 6b+2m, but would you be so confident of being able to push through if it was one of the monks that you lost?

Most parties with less than 3 healers are going to be in a similar situation - if one of the healers drops, they're in trouble. Pretty much any group with a MM is going to take a significant hit if the MM disappears... but people still generally don't take redundant MMs.

[DE] · Nov 09, 2007, 04:05 AM // 04:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

In the end the absolute undeniable truth is this is a video game.

Players of all skill levels purchased this game to play and enjoy themselves.

The 'Elite' players believe they need something to hold over the heads of other people. They get mad when something comes along and makes the 'hard work' they put into playing this video game less of an accomplishment.

This is akin to Deep Blue beating Garry Kasparov.

Its not fair that something came along and depreciated them in thier own eyes.

If your self esteem is so closely tied to a video game that you get upset when a group of 'scrubs' or 'noobs' can defeat a 3D animated monkey you have a very serious problem on your hands.

We have been over this argument and others numerous times in this thread. Countless posts have been made, and as such is the case, instead of me retyping stuff for the thousandth time I suggest you take a look back at the thread to find out why what you just said was extremely incompetent.

unienaule · Nov 09, 2007, 04:31 AM // 04:31

So I should add "this is just a video game" to my list of silly comebacks as to why balance doesn't matter? Wow.

Further note, it's not to hold something over the heads of people that I would like to see balance. I've never even cleared a zone of DoA, mainly because I don't like margonites and I don't like torment.

God-mode skill is still god-mode.

trobinson97 · Nov 09, 2007, 04:56 AM // 04:56

There are a lot of builds that go against the pve balance you guys seem to be championing, in fact, almost every farming build is imbalanced. Now that people are doing DoA quests, it's nothing but a cry fest. "It's not fair they don't have to use the skills I do", "It's not fair they get rewards I got in less time", "It's not fair because prices will go down and I won't be able to charge 100l+XX ectos for stuff" and other paraphrases like that are what's really behind your concern for balance in PvE. At least Angmar Nite admits it.

If UB groups couldn't do DoA, you'd have no issue, but people could still take their 3 man teams, their trappers and such and farm all those precious rewards in those precious "elite" areas anyway. They've been doing it all this time with those "imbalanced" builds so where was all the crying about the economy and balance then?

You don't have to complete a single quest to get an armbrace as long as you have the right farming build. You can get (and have been able to do so for a long while) armbraces without doing a single quest. UB now gives the more casual players (or players who just want to try something different) who want to do the areas but didn't have the right class, or the right amount of time a chance to do it after a little practice and now the tears start flowing. It's all just so tragic.

unienaule · Nov 09, 2007, 05:11 AM // 05:11

Wow, get off your high horse. Being able to make custom builds against enemies who have set skill bars will always result in things like three man farming teams. However, are they using one silly stupid broken skill to turn on god-mode, or are they using some form of strategy and tactics?

Here's an example. In the days of Orozar, I used symbiosis to make a ridiculous tank with 8-9 maintained enchants on him and use dwayna's to heal him for 250-300. Is that breaking the game? No. Is that knowing my enemies won't be able to counter a certain strategy because they can't change their builds? Yes. Did that build work in other places? Not so much. DO YOU EVER HAVE TO CHANGE YOUR URSAN BAR FOR AN AREA? NO. There is no skill involved in Ursan at all, and that is why I oppose it.

ryanryanryan0310 · Nov 09, 2007, 05:13 AM // 05:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richardt

Hmmmmm.....so I just spent the last hour going through a search for Mallyx (i.e. I typed Mallyx into the search window). I also looked at pvxwiki, and both wiki's discussions on DoA.

You lost me at looking up builts on pvxwiki.

DivineEnvoy · Nov 09, 2007, 05:54 AM // 05:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by unienaule

Wow, get off your high horse. Being able to make custom builds against enemies who have set skill bars will always result in things like three man farming teams. However, are they using one silly stupid broken skill to turn on god-mode, or are they using some form of strategy and tactics?

Here's an example. In the days of Orozar, I used symbiosis to make a ridiculous tank with 8-9 maintained enchants on him and use dwayna's to heal him for 250-300. Is that breaking the game? No. Is that knowing my enemies won't be able to counter a certain strategy because they can't change their builds? Yes. Did that build work in other places? Not so much. DO YOU EVER HAVE TO CHANGE YOUR URSAN BAR FOR AN AREA? NO. There is no skill involved in Ursan at all, and that is why I oppose it.

Clearly you have never used Ursan at all. Keep in mind that when you put Ursan Blessing skills on your skill bar, the other 7 skills will remain there. Since Ursan Blessing will remove our other 7 skills when it's used, it is best for us to bring long lasting skills. I bring Ruby Djinn or Naga Shaman depends on the environment whether it is fire favorable or not. Also, if I have to make a run to a certain point while having Ursan, I would bring a long-lasting stance like drunken master to help the boost. However, if I have to protect my heroes/henches, I would bring dwarven armor. I use spear and shield myself, so I usually bring a spear skill or two to do some damage while my bear is down. Of course, I also bring a few shouts to buff the team around. The worse thing about being in the bear form is that you can't use your resurrection skill when you are a bear. In other words, if the two monks in the team die, and no one is aware of that, bears will go down as fast as a human mesmer in front of an angered norn. In this sense, does it mean Ursan Blessing is balanced?

P.S: I have been using fast cast nuker on my mesmer for two years (without changing) after Guild Wars original is released; does that mean my fire build is imbalanced? If so, how come balancing updates always boost up my skills?

Shaz · Nov 09, 2007, 06:34 AM // 06:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy

Clearly you have never used Ursan at all. Keep in mind that when you put Ursan Blessing skills on your skill bar, the other 7 skills will remain there. Since Ursan Blessing will remove our other 7 skills when it's used, it is best for us to bring long lasting skills. I bring Ruby Djinn or Naga Shaman depends on the environment whether it is fire favorable or not. Also, if I have to make a run to a certain point while having Ursan, I would bring a long-lasting stance like drunken master to help the boost. However, if I have to protect my heroes/henches, I would bring dwarven armor. I use spear and shield myself, so I usually bring a spear skill or two to do some damage while my bear is down. Of course, I also bring a few shouts to buff the team around. The worse thing about being in the bear form is that you can't use your resurrection skill when you are a bear. In other words, if the two monks in the team die, and no one is aware of that, bears will go down as fast as a human mesmer in front of an angered norn. In this sense, does it mean Ursan Blessing is balanced?

Um...I don't see how what you said make Ursan not a broken skill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy

P.S: I have been using fast cast nuker on my mesmer for two years (without changing) after Guild Wars original is released; does that mean my fire build is imbalanced? If so, how come balancing updates always boost up my skills?

Say what? Ok you lost me here

DivineEnvoy · Nov 09, 2007, 06:53 AM // 06:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaz

Um...I don't see how what you said make Ursan not a broken skill.
Say what? Ok you lost me here

What I said was really a reply to what unienaule considered as "balanced." If you actually read what unienaule said, it makes much more sense.

Shaz · Nov 09, 2007, 07:05 AM // 07:05

I did actually, still don't see how that make Ursan not a broken skill. What unienaule said about balanced and what you said are completely different.

bungusmaximus · Nov 09, 2007, 07:14 AM // 07:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy

Most of us are in small guilds, and even inactive guilds. Hence, we have to find pick up groups for places such as HA, and thus ranks will be required. Due to his late start, things have been unfair for him. Who is really going to teach him what to do, and how can he learn to HA without any ranks?

Don't have an easy answer to that (well, let us use UB in halls LOLOLOL), I started playing when factions came out, so I'm not exactly a super-vet either. PvP is another story anyways because it takes such a (*&*(&!!!! lot of time to be good at and you can't nerf the competition. THis means you can always play HA (I played it when I owned gw for 2 months), but you will inevitably get creamed.

About your friend, tell him to roll an ele, let him finish NF, and let him PWN doa. You don't have to be exactly good to play SF ele. I'm in a small guild too, so I always PUG lots of things, like DoA of Urgoz or HA. When you get the hang of an area you can farm the living crap out of it real soon, it's really not that hard, just need a patient team. And then there's heroes, ooooh they're so sweet, LOL who needs prophecies (flame retarded suit engaged)

.

DivineEnvoy · Nov 09, 2007, 07:51 AM // 07:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaz

I did actually, still don't see how that make Ursan not a broken skill. What unienaule said about balanced and what you said are completely different.

Let me put this in a more simple way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by unienaule

Here's an example. In the days of Orozar, I used symbiosis to make a ridiculous tank with 8-9 maintained enchants on him and use dwayna's to heal him for 250-300. Is that breaking the game? No. Is that knowing my enemies won't be able to counter a certain strategy because they can't change their builds? Yes. Did that build work in other places? Not so much. DO YOU EVER HAVE TO CHANGE YOUR URSAN BAR FOR AN AREA? NO. There is no skill involved in Ursan at all, and that is why I oppose it.

unienaule is saying that Ursan Blessing does not require a change to the build when an area is changed, while other builds require to do so; therefore it is unbalanced, since it seems to be uncounterable to all the mobs every area.

My post on 354 is really a counter to this. I mentioned how while having an Ursan bar, it is still needed to change certain skills as areas change. We don't only bring Ursan Blessing, we bring 7 other skills as well. I also listed a disadvantage when one is in the bear form to reinforce my arguement: one cannot use resurrect skill.
My later paragraph is really a conclusive message to breakdown the logic within this so-called balance. As noted, this person believes that since a build is not changed throughout the course of switching areas, it must be overpowered. However, that's not really the case to balance, since my nuker build has lasted me two years without changing, and it is not overpowered as noted that balance updates have buffed it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

Don't have an easy answer to that (well, let us use UB in halls LOLOLOL), I started playing when factions came out, so I'm not exactly a super-vet either. PvP is another story anyways because it takes such a (*&*(&!!!! lot of time to be good at and you can't nerf the competition. THis means you can always play HA (I played it when I owned gw for 2 months), but you will inevitably get creamed.

About your friend, tell him to roll an ele, let him finish NF, and let him PWN doa. You don't have to be exactly good to play SF ele. I'm in a small guild too, so I always PUG lots of things, like DoA of Urgoz or HA. When you get the hang of an area you can farm the living crap out of it real soon, it's really not that hard, just need a patient team. And then there's heroes, ooooh they're so sweet, LOL who needs prophecies (flame retarded suit engaged)

.

Well PVP isn't an issue for him anymore, since he enjoys PVE just enough. Nice idea by the way, maybe I should suggest for him to make an elementalist. Relevantly, he likes his current profession as he can do over 100 damage per second. Guess his heroes/henches really restrict his gameplay.

Shaz · Nov 09, 2007, 08:24 AM // 08:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy

unienaule is saying that Ursan Blessing does not require a change to the build when an area is changed, while other builds require to do so; therefore it is unbalanced, since it seems to be uncounterable to all the mobs every area.

My post on 354 is really a counter to this. I mentioned how while having an Ursan bar, it is still needed to change certain skills as areas change. We don't only bring Ursan Blessing, we bring 7 other skills as well. I also listed a disadvantage when one is in the bear form to reinforce my arguement: one cannot use resurrect skill.

I got that actually

. What you said is still completely different from what unienaule said. While you can change the 7 skills to help you with different area, you are not require so. Just Ursan is enough cause havoc, other skills are just icing on the cake (so that make it even more imba, so not really helping your case) while you are out of the form (even for a warrior, if you have different energy set weapons, you're rarely out of it. At the most 20 secs, so meh). Cause while in Ursan form, the only thing that can shut you down, is major Edenial, and not many PvE AI does that.

I know that ANET will fix this skill without a doubt. Just hope it sooner then later.