Curse

draxynnic · Nov 07, 2007, 03:56 AM // 03:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy

As you said it yourself, they are PVP nerfs. We are talking about PVE here, which is different than PVP. So what if a player decides to make a free forum account and posts on a forum? That action is so easy even a caveman can do it.

Ugh not know what squiggly-things on glowy-box-thing do. Ugh SMASH glowy-box-thing!

Horseman Of War · Nov 07, 2007, 05:29 AM // 05:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyper Cutter

Ursan Blessing IS an elite.

shhh theyll nerf Arcane mimickry

/doh

Glints Bane · Nov 07, 2007, 05:56 AM // 05:56

Ok sorry guys time for me to talk as well.

Many people have stated the "fact" that if you don't like a skill don't use it...that is total BS. It is sad, because of the fact that a super imbalanced skill is defended by people who have not thought through the consiquences that will be reaped because of their stupid and thoughtless actions. For example; The reason people go to DoA and complete the quests is due to many different things. One thing and probably the most common thing is collecting weapons and gemstones for Ambraces. When people can complete DoA multiple time in one day because of an overpowered skill then the prices of these items will drop because they will flood the market(Ambraces are already on the drop). So you CAN continue to wack at things without using your brains(your good at it thus far) but make sure your doing it because you don't want to use your brains and not to make money. In the long run you hurt everyone who is in the Guild Wars economy.

bungusmaximus · Nov 07, 2007, 06:41 AM // 06:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy

This is getting no where. Most of us just continue to post valid reasons against the arguement of nerfing Ursan Blessing; yet they are continue to be ignored.

Hmm, that has a core of truth, because most arguments against bears on steroids are as solid as the arguments in favor. I'm just making my own particular point, as do others.

GW is a bit of a funny game anyways, in other games you can adjust difficulty settings if you're in for a challenge, GW doesn't have such a thing (as it would be impossible to group). Therefore you need challenging areas to keep the hard cores happy and playing. I'm still not in favor of making those easy but that seems to be a matter of taste really. Others don't mind and we indeed can't decide for eachother what's supposed to be fun. Still I wouldn't mind if they made the bears at least counterable by shutdown.

lord dragon · Nov 07, 2007, 07:29 AM // 07:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glints Bane

Ok sorry guys time for me to talk as well.

Many people have stated the "fact" that if you don't like a skill don't use it...that is total BS. It is sad, because of the fact that a super imbalanced skill is defended by people who have not thought through the consiquences that will be reaped because of their stupid and thoughtless actions. For example; The reason people go to DoA and complete the quests is due to many different things. One thing and probably the most common thing is collecting weapons and gemstones for Ambraces. When people can complete DoA multiple time in one day because of an overpowered skill then the prices of these items will drop because they will flood the market(Ambraces are already on the drop). So you CAN continue to wack at things without using your brains(your good at it thus far) but make sure your doing it because you don't want to use your brains and not to make money. In the long run you hurt everyone who is in the Guild Wars economy.

Anytime the price of something falls, I am all for it. If you want money, make it anyway you want, but don't think that it can only be made off of other players. Do I play with ursan, sometimes. Do I play without it, most times. I prefer using skill. But, I don't play DOA for money, I play for fun. If you want farming areas, go to them. Just don't use that as an excuse. I hope all prices come down. It will help the game, not hurt it.

The only people lower prices will hurt are the gold farmers. I won't be sad to see them leave.

Glints Bane · Nov 07, 2007, 07:58 AM // 07:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord dragon

Anytime the price of something falls, I am all for it.

I bet you are, bacause then you wouldn't have to work to hard in order to afford what others used to work hard for, such as Fissure Armor or rare req8 weapons.

Quote:

I don't play DOA for money, I play for fun.

I didn't say everyone played for money I said some and most. This is more then likely true but I don't have the statistics and neither do you so w/e.

Quote:

If you want farming areas, go to them. Just don't use that as an excuse. I hope all prices come down. It will help the game, not hurt it.

The only people lower prices will hurt are the gold farmers. I won't be sad to see them leave.

yeah it wouldn't hurt it...for those people who don't work hard or set goals. I'm a casual player who is working really hard at the moment to gain Fissure armor for my necro. When I get it I will be so proud because I worked for it even though I'm not a hard core gamer like my guildies. When someone who doesn't have to work at all and just gets something thats really cheap(ecto and shards) and goes to buy what I worked for I would be a little upset, not because of different gameplay but because the quality of game play is lowered and the new standard is below par.(par=enjoyable for both casual and hardcore gamers)

mcsumo · Nov 07, 2007, 09:21 AM // 09:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simath

I will reiterate what I stated in the last thread. Claiming that the only player the monk has to heal is Racthoh is entirely false. SY does not effect the loss of health that will be suffered over time by health degen and life stealing. One example would be the hungers in Stygian. SY isn't going to turn that 60-70 dmg Vamp Touch or Vamp Bite is going to be delivering into 0's.

Hah you see what I did there? Exaggerated just like all you antis are. Obviously the monk is going to have to deal with other stuff. Those hungers will take that health right off no matter whet you do (apart from can't touch this). But they are only dangerous in a big group,when they don't have any 'melee' shutdown. So they can be knocked down and interrupted by your balanced bars too if you set up for it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simath

Once again it's not that simple. You can't walk in there with one SY paragon, and 7 smite monks and expect good things to happen.

It isn't that simple for bears either. Just try walking in there in with 6 bears and 2 monks. Even though you know the layout you can easily go down. Especially if your Norn and LB ranks are only mediocre.... even more so if you have a few 'caster' bears.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simath

If running balanced requires no less skill than why are you still playing UB the most uniform and utterly boring team composition possible? This "steel umbrella" is much much more vulnerable than UB. Melee shutdown actually applies to SY, but does not to UB. You can attack through faint, soothing, blind, etc. with no consequence, but SY will be severely crippled until those hexes and conditions are removed.

Because I don't know any paragons. December last year was the last time I relly looked at my paragon. He just didn't seem to do any of the roles I tried as well as I would have liked. (Maybe that was my fault). So I gave up on him. I think a lot of other people did the same once they played them through NF. Also when Kurzick skills first arrived I didn't really look at them since I hadn't really started either title track. So I missed the power of it.

I bet the mobs that apply those hexes and conditions are your priority target though right? Just like bears have to take down AoE damagers first. You don't really have to worry about AoE too much because of super armor. Different tactics for different strengths. Also in a balanced team, with a half decent monk, those hexes and conditions certainly shouldn't last long enough to make a difference.

I too would also prefer to play balanced. But your build isn't really balanced. Take out SY and your entire strategy fails. I don't think you would get very far at all using the exact same team and a paragon without SY.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simath

There's a difference between running consumables for speed purposes and running them because you need them. If you took some time and looked at the beginning of some Mallyx thread you would see SMS was doing DoA long before consumables were introduced to this game.

I know. I was merely pointing out that they are a seperate issue. Bear teams I am involved in don't 'HAVE' to use them. And Damn!!! that would be an expensive way to do it if, you did need to use consumables through every area.

Lastly, this isn't really going to affect the economy that much. People will get bored of it reasonably quickly. Some still can't succeed using Ursanway. It is the farmers who really affect the economy. I mean DoA gems, gemsets, armbraces etc have dropped how much in the last 10 months. Something like 90% isnt it? I am not a trading nut. But that seems like pretty drastic devaluation.

tmakinen · Nov 07, 2007, 09:36 AM // 09:36

The thing that doesn't cease to surprise me in this UB discussion is the apparent amount of passion people show either way. It's a single non-mandatory and fairly 'meh' skill in a fantasy RPG. If somebody gets all worked up over such things I wonder what they do in reality where things have actual consequences ...

However, I realized that there happens to be another build that shares many properties with UB, including:

* relies on skill spamming
* high single target DPS
* armor ignoring damage
* immune to conditions/hexes
* speed buff
* energy management problems / susceptible to energy denial

Main differences are

* protection ignoring damage (better)
* condition control (better)
* ability to block (better)
* amazing self-healing, thus soloable (better)
* melee range only (worse)
* DPS not affected by buffs like LB title (worse)
* no KD (worse)
* lower max AL and HP (worse)

From that list, can you spot the 'proto-bear' build? It's nothing else than the infamous touch ranger! Except for some areas that specifically benefit from a particular buff like LB, a toucher performs as well or even better than an ursan tank. Thus it is impossible to 'balance' UB in its current form because of cumulative PvE only effects. If UB is balanced for DoA, it's pitifully bad everywhere else. If it's balanced for general gameplay, it's way overpowered in DoA. Hence here's another suggestion for solving the dilemma: change UB (and the other PvE elites) so that you can only use it while displaying your Norn reputation title. You can have LB and its benefits but no UB, or UB and its benefits but no LB, your choice. If you switch to LB or some other title while in ursan form, that will automatically trigger Totem of Man. This solves the main problem which is not armor ignoring damage (there are other comparable builds like the toucher) but the cumulative effect of PvE only bonuses.

Anybody happy with that?

bungusmaximus · Nov 07, 2007, 09:40 AM // 09:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmakinen

The thing that doesn't cease to surprise me in this UB discussion is the apparent amount of passion people show either way.

Passion > indifference at any time

I don't see a problem as long as people keep stuff civil.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmakinen

change UB (and the other PvE elites) so that you can only use it while displaying your Norn reputation title. You can have LB and its benefits but no UB, or UB and its benefits but no LB, your choice. If you switch to LB or some other title while in ursan form, that will automatically trigger Totem of Man. This solves the main problem which is not armor ignoring damage (there are other comparable builds like the toucher) but the cumulative effect of PvE only bonuses.

Anybody happy with that?

That's not even such a bad idea if you ask me. Can you use LB gaze and UB at the same time then normally?

Sweet Mystery · Nov 07, 2007, 10:06 AM // 10:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simath

Players should rely on their characters pros and cons in the game. They shouldn't be able to slap a skill on their bar regardless of their class.

Yes.... so they have a choice, not your choice, their choice. They choose to use a skill on their character that is a pro to their character.

Sheesh.... everyone just wants to screw the game for others for such selfish little reasons.

The economy won't crash because say a thousand people use UB... do we really know how many do? Oh one or two may post they used UB teams... well good for them, they went and did something so they enjoyed doing something. That is what it is all about, people enjoying the game.

Shall we stop the 2 and 3 man teams in DoA as they farm it too much and so ruins things? Shall we stop the 55 & SS/SV combos in UW? Shall we nerf VwK to stop the solo Warrior's in UW?

People should get off their high horses and let people play as they want to play. Don't like the skill, dont use it simple. Others will like it and use it and so play it. Let them.

=HT=Ingram · Nov 07, 2007, 11:01 AM // 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by ender6

No need to flame/or cry...

UB will be nerfed as it should.

As Avarre said the biggest mistake ANet made was introducing PvE only skills. The introduction of such skills underminds the gaming concept of GW. What set this game apart from others within its genre was the use of skills and balance. Hopefully ANet has learned its lesson(s) and it will show when GW2 is released.

Your so full of crap your hair stinks clear to Antarctica... In no way does any PvE skill of any kind, or the nerfing of it if need be, to prevent exploit farming bots, "undermine the concept of GW". If anything making GW have skills that PvP people can not bitch about improved the game more then any other thing in the last 3 years. That way if anet wanted to add a skill for something special or Whatever other dumb ass thing in PvE. The PvP exploiters will not abuse it and ruin it for everyone with their Angst.

You can expect right now that PvE skills will be a part of GW2 from the beginning. Both Race and Quest skills... While CORE skills will be pretty much all there will be in PvP for obvious balance reasons. That's practically a given... Any Moron can see that even from the concepts from the GWEN expansion and from things they have already said in interviews.

Shaddow · Nov 07, 2007, 11:15 AM // 11:15

Ill Just say this URSAN blessing is a Elite PVE skill - Supposed to be strong as its an elite. ALSO it makes PVE easier in places but in others it does not as does any other skill so stop moaning about it owning in certain places because thats what skills do. AND if your good enough to get your Norn title maxed shouldn't you have something to enjoy like a kick ass blessing.

yesitsrob · Nov 07, 2007, 12:36 PM // 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmakinen

The thing that doesn't cease to surprise me in this UB discussion is the apparent amount of passion people show either way. It's a single non-mandatory and fairly 'meh' skill in a fantasy RPG. If somebody gets all worked up over such things I wonder what they do in reality where things have actual consequences ...

However, I realized that there happens to be another build that shares many properties with UB, including:

* relies on skill spamming
* high single target DPS
* armor ignoring damage
* immune to conditions/hexes
* speed buff
* energy management problems / susceptible to energy denial

Main differences are

* protection ignoring damage (better)
* condition control (better)
* ability to block (better)
* amazing self-healing, thus soloable (better)
* melee range only (worse)
* DPS not affected by buffs like LB title (worse)
* no KD (worse)
* lower max AL and HP (worse)

From that list, can you spot the 'proto-bear' build? It's nothing else than the infamous touch ranger! Except for some areas that specifically benefit from a particular buff like LB, a toucher performs as well or even better than an ursan tank. Thus it is impossible to 'balance' UB in its current form because of cumulative PvE only effects. If UB is balanced for DoA, it's pitifully bad everywhere else. If it's balanced for general gameplay, it's way overpowered in DoA. Hence here's another suggestion for solving the dilemma: change UB (and the other PvE elites) so that you can only use it while displaying your Norn reputation title. You can have LB and its benefits but no UB, or UB and its benefits but no LB, your choice. If you switch to LB or some other title while in ursan form, that will automatically trigger Totem of Man. This solves the main problem which is not armor ignoring damage (there are other comparable builds like the toucher) but the cumulative effect of PvE only bonuses.

Anybody happy with that?

I think the idea is ok, but people would just swap titles before used they the skill. In some cases that won't be practical, in others it won't be too bad.

Sheriff · Nov 07, 2007, 12:38 PM // 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcsumo

It isn't that simple for bears either. Just try walking in there in with 6 bears and 2 monks.

4 bears + 1 wolf + 1 raven >>>>>>> 6 bears

As soon as the ursan blessing naysayers realize this they'll want all other elites nerfed too

Leave the game as it is people, we have too many nerfs already

lord dragon · Nov 07, 2007, 12:43 PM // 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glints Bane

I bet you are, bacause then you wouldn't have to work to hard in order to afford what others used to work hard for, such as Fissure Armor or rare req8 weapons.

I have about 25 mil xp across 5 characters. I also have the armor and weapons you are talking about. Try again. As for WORK, this is a game. I enjoy PLAYING a game, not working at one. But as for the argument that it is better for higher prices, your argument fails on 2 counts with saying this. One, already have it, 2 did it when it was harder.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glints Bane

I didn't say everyone played for money I said some and most. This is more then likely true but I don't have the statistics and neither do you so w/e.

Some to play for money. There are areas that drop a lot of gold when you kill in hard mode. Some like challenges. Some like titles. Each plays for thier own reason. If you want to get rich, great, just farm more and you will. Lower prices means more can have what they want.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glints Bane

yeah it wouldn't hurt it...for those people who don't work hard or set goals. I'm a casual player who is working really hard at the moment to gain Fissure armor for my necro. When I get it I will be so proud because I worked for it even though I'm not a hard core gamer like my guildies. When someone who doesn't have to work at all and just gets something thats really cheap(ecto and shards) and goes to buy what I worked for I would be a little upset, not because of different gameplay but because the quality of game play is lowered and the new standard is below par.(par=enjoyable for both casual and hardcore gamers)

Goes back to the original flawed premise. Farm fissure and the underworld if you want that armor. You will get the parts you want. It is ashame you are WORKING for it, as I am PLAYING.

Armbraces are coming down. Gems are coming down. More people can play the area that are not the normal cookie cutter builds. I think it is funny and worth the time occasionally. As for the armbraces, again, have one, it looses value everyday. As for gems, have plenty, they are going down. Still happy about the situation as it is no longer the elitist area, and now more can play.

People are pugging again. What is wrong with that?

beanerman_99 · Nov 07, 2007, 02:19 PM // 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet Mystery

Yes.... so they have a choice, not your choice, their choice. They choose to use a skill on their character that is a pro to their character.

Sheesh.... everyone just wants to screw the game for others for such selfish little reasons.

The economy won't crash because say a thousand people use UB... do we really know how many do? Oh one or two may post they used UB teams... well good for them, they went and did something so they enjoyed doing something. That is what it is all about, people enjoying the game.

Shall we stop the 2 and 3 man teams in DoA as they farm it too much and so ruins things? Shall we stop the 55 & SS/SV combos in UW? Shall we nerf VwK to stop the solo Warrior's in UW?

People should get off their high horses and let people play as they want to play. Don't like the skill, dont use it simple. Others will like it and use it and so play it. Let them.

QFT. I really believe that there are many here who want to see UB nerfed because of their own selfish reasons. If they nerf this they should nerf everything. How about nerfing consumables cause they give an unfair advantage? How about nerfing LoD cause it seems every monk uses it so it must be too good, right? Lets nerf 55's once an for all cause not everyone can do it, right? Lets stop any 2 man farming teams cause thats unfair to all the other people, right?

I am a new comer to DoA and I cleared the Veil with a good team and not a single one was Ursan. It was a blast. Then I cleared the city with Ursan tanks and it was quick and it was a blast as well. God, don't you people like having different choices on how to do things? If you don't like Ursan DON'T USE IT. It is NOT ruining the game so just STFU and go play already!

RTSFirebat · Nov 07, 2007, 02:31 PM // 14:31

So in summary we have these groups:

1. I like UB because it gives me a chance to do areas which otherwise my character class could not do very easily.

2. I like UB because it allows elite areas to be done in much shorter spaces of time.

3. I don't like UB because my "insert item or gold thing here" is worth less because of it.

4. I don't like UB because I or someone else has worked hard for something and I don't like the idea of people doing things easier then me.

To be honest UB is slightly overpowered, but I fail to see how people enjoying a different style of game play which UB provides should have any effect on people doing it otherwise.

I just hope A.net balance UB and not nerf if into nothingness...

On another note I have used UB a fair amount lately, why? Because some of the HM missions are just too dang annoying to do any other way, UB have finally allow me to do missions that would other fall into pure luck. I'm looking at you Eternal Grove!

theblackmage · Nov 07, 2007, 06:41 PM // 18:41

To those who say that ursanway = "I WIN" button for skill-less retards: It's not. As a side-note, the only success I've had in elite areas are Shadow Form nuking in Ravenhart Gloom and running mana battery/dying nightmare killing for a trapper friend in UW (just cause it goes a little faster). Thus, as far as elite missions go, I am as skill-less as you can get.

Just for the heck of it, last night I tried the "cheat" team build. And you know what? Titans raped us repeatedly. Now I know, I'm not the most skilled player (far from it). But some people in this thread are implying that ursanway in DoA takes less skill than some tougher non-elite missions, like Abbadon NM, w/o anything from EotN. Not the case. Granted, we were only attempting foundry, but still. If UB=skill-less win, why didn't we win?

And to whoever was saying UB skill #2 is a big [email protected] aggro, how does this help when you have 10+ titans on you (yes, they ALL patrolled to our position at the entrance of the "room", and this was not a random patrol, either.)

So in short, sure, I may [email protected] areas, but how much phail can one expect from an "EZ mode" skill?

It ain't broke. Don't try to fix it.

TheLordOfBlah · Nov 07, 2007, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by kazjun

Don't like it? Don't use it. And as for clearing FoW? Any decent team, or two players and six heroes can clear it just as easily.

Difficulty is not the problem here.. its the amount of time. The fact that this tactic that requires essentially no thought process to run is the most effective way of completing areas is ridiculous. Lets assume that you aren't a dumbass, you probably understand that high end areas are meant to take some form of skill. This doesn't take skill, team building ability, nothing like that, yet is most effective. Why?

GG again ANet for not seeing stupid crap coming. A build that deals high armor ignoring spammable damage that requires you to bring one skill CAN'T be overpowered right?

mcsumo · Nov 07, 2007, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLordOfBlah

Difficulty is not the problem here.. its the amount of time. The fact that this tactic that requires essentially no thought process to run is the most effective way of completing areas is ridiculous.

WRONG.

Somewhere on these forums is a thread showing several people completing DoA, beating Mallyx and discussing times. I believe SMS still hold the record with 2 hrs 8 mins for a run of all 4 areas. They did this with an ingenious build idea that Racthoh came up with. Hats off to them, they are good.

Even the best bear team isn't going to beat that time. I went in with a good team last night. We all did our jobs well and had a lot of fun. But it still took over an hour to beat veil. I can't see us shaving much time off that.

So many arguments against UB and they all can be disproved if you people would just try it yourselves.

There are better builds out there that anybody could run, but unfortunately for the masses, not many want to make a balanced team.... even less have the necessary character/skills to start a team.

That is what makes UB more efficient.... you know you can find a team.

On another point somebody said that a wolf and a raven thrown in with the bears make it better. I can't really see how. Raven has less DPS and blindness taken off the bears and put on to mobs shouldnt make much difference if you are doing it right. Wolf has the DW skill which is good, but again less DPS and attack speed increase for everyone should make little difference, since bears' strength doesn't come from attacks.