Curse

trobinson97 · Oct 31, 2007, 01:27 AM // 01:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteWasabi

Sorry but you are wrong. URSAN blessing ignores armor....Goes right through it. Plus, its a skill and if you use it with CELERITY you are doing WAY more damage than your warr build.

Sorry, YOU are wrong. Ursan Strike is armor ignoring, and it's the only skill from Ursan Blessing that is so. Also, are you also making a case for nerfing Essence of Celerity (a consumable which like Ursan Blessing is up to the individual/group to use) as well? Also, would not Warskull's warrior do more damage if he were using the consumable as you were? Stronger case please. You never told me how this has ruined the game.

Also, even though that pic is a little better than the first one you posted, how about an /age next time, so at least I won't have to question that part of your statement.

Whiskeyjack · Oct 31, 2007, 01:30 AM // 01:30

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That pretty much says it all. You don't want people to succeed in a video game because they won't use the builds you feel they should to do it? How sad are you? For shame.

You really don't get it mate, noone care's wether you complete so called "elite" mission's with a build you created. The problem is that Ursan is so obviously OP(along with some other PvE skills) that it fundamentally break's the whole concept of what this game is supposed to be about-player skill. While its true in my view that PvE has always required only an average level of skill to complete any area, ursan blessing has taken the game to the extreme that anyone regardless of how bad they are or how little understanding they have of the game can beat anything the game has to offer, added to which they don't even have to make thier own skill bar. In my view thats bad for the game, if it continues at it's current pace soon noone will get in a PUG for an "elite" area without using UB, do you think thats a good thing?

Some of us would like the game to be balanced to the extent that strategy, awareness and thought behind builds determines success not cheap 1 skill bar's.

If you disagree could you explain WHY you think ursan is good for the game, hopefully without your amatuer phychology and drama queen hissy fits.

Oh and

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Who's we?

All the decent players I know don't use the skill, and are in fact disgusted with the whole idea of it. You may think that's being elitist, but its not, "we" would just like the game to head towards a more balanced experience rather than away from it. Thats who "we" are.

trobinson97 · Oct 31, 2007, 01:48 AM // 01:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by whiskeyjack

You really don't get it mate, noone care's wether you complete so called "elite" mission's

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whiskeyjack

ursan blessing has taken the game to the extreme that anyone regardless of how bad they are or how little understanding they have of the game can beat anything the game has to offer, added to which they don't even have to make thier own skill bar. In my view thats bad

So you don't care, but you do care?

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Originally Posted by whiskeyjack

if it continues at it's current pace soon noone will get in a PUG for an "elite" area without using UB, do you think thats a good thing?

I don't think it will make the game any worse than it is already,at least it will still promote pugging. There will always be some type of discrimination in the game, whether it be, title ranks, class, or builds. Why is Ursan discrimination any worse? At least with Ursan classes who don't usually get picked in pugs for certain "elite" missions have a better shot now, so way to go Ursan!

Quote:

Originally Posted by whiskeyjack

Some of us would like the game to be balanced to the extent that strategy, awareness and thought behind builds determines success not cheap 1 skill bar's.

That's a great point whiskey. Good job and here's the solution for people who are like minded; PvP.

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Originally Posted by whiskeyjack

If you disagree could you explain WHY you think ursan is good for the game

People are going back to DoA and other deserted "elite" areas.

People are pugging.

People are enjoying pugs.

People are having fun.

Classes who would usually be the fat kid at basketball tryouts are now getting in groups.

People are having fun.

People are getting to see areas of the game they were not able to before hand.

People are having fun.

*Note, I realize one of those was repeated twice, but really isn't that what games are supposed to be about? Also, I tried to come up with cons at the same time but I just didn't see any.

Quote:

Originally Posted by whiskeyjack

hopefully without your amatuer phychology and drama queen hissy fits.

Aww, feel better now? I hope so. Though truth to be told, I didn't think it was a hissy fit, but as long as you're feeling more confident in yourself I'll accept that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by whiskeyjack

All the decent players I know don't use the skill, and are in fact disgusted with the whole idea of it. You may think that's being elitist, but its not, "we" would just like the game to head towards a more balanced experience rather than away from it. Thats who "we" are.

Well aren't you all a merry band of rebels?! So let me get this straight, you're speaking for yesitsrob and all the decent players you know. yesitsrob was speaking for someone who does use a professed imba build. Again, you should only speak for yourself and encourage all those disgusted friends of yours to do the same. One bit of advice once more you and your friends who crave the balance, and strategic elements; I hear PvP, particularly GvG provides a lot of that.

Also, you realize of course, there are decent players you don't know who use the skill?

angmar_nite · Oct 31, 2007, 01:53 AM // 01:53

hm. A minor nerf such that ursanway is still possible but just slightly harder would be desired. This way, the average warrior can still Urgoz, but the team build designed for efficiency can be just that: efficient.

Gigashadow · Oct 31, 2007, 02:03 AM // 02:03

To all the usual set of retards posting "Yes it's overpowered but so what, you can just not use it", do you think there should be a skill available to everyone that instantly kills a mob and (why not) forces it to drop a gold item? I mean, after all, "if it's overpowered then you don't have to use it."

Let me guess, you also feel ArenaNet could have avoided creating hard mode, because if normal mode was too easy, those people should just have taken off all their armor and done it with no skills equipped, while wearing a blindfold; i.e. if you want a challenge, play really badly.

Honestly some of you are so stupid, I don't know how how you manage to get through life on a day to day basis.

Whiskeyjack · Oct 31, 2007, 02:09 AM // 02:09

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So you don't care, but you do care?

I like how you edited what I actually said, read it again.

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That's a great point whiskey. Good job and here's the solution for people who are like minded; PvP.

I do, but i prefer PvE in the main, thanks for the advvice though. It seem's as though you are implying that balance is irrelevant to PvE, a-net thinks differently, just look at the nerf's to some sunspear skill's.

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People are pugging.

People are enjoying pugs.

People are having fun.

People have alway's pugged, and they will continue to do so after Ursan is nerfed.

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but as long as you're feeling more confident in yourself I'll accept that.

I don't lack confidence, i just call it as i see it.

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Also, you realize of course, there are decent players you don't know who use the skill?

Do they? I am sure many have tried it out of curiosity, but i doubt they use it very often if at all.

Much as i disagree with almost everything you have said, you do make me laugh, no doubt we will hear from you again soon.

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hm. A minor nerf such that ursanway is still possible but just slightly harder would be desired. This way, the average warrior can still Urgoz, but the team build designed for efficiency can be just that: efficient.

Yeah I don't think anyone is suggesting killing the skill entirely, but it does need to be subject to melee counters imo. Incedentally a warrior can do urgoz without Ursan.

Edit:Typo

trobinson97 · Oct 31, 2007, 02:10 AM // 02:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gigashadow

To all the usual set of retards posting "Yes it's overpowered but so what, you can just not use it", do you think there should be a skill available to everyone that instantly kills a mob and (why not) forces it to drop a gold item? I mean, after all, "if it's overpowered then you don't have to use it."

So now we're down to making up skills to complain about? Ursan is nohere close to doing that.

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Let me guess, you also feel ArenaNet could have avoided creating hard mode, because if normal mode was too easy, those people should just have taken off all their armor and done it with no skills equipped, while wearing a blindfold; i.e. if you want a challenge, play really badly.

So now we're down to arguing hypothetical points?

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Honestly some of you are so stupid, I don't know how how you manage to get through life on a day to day basis.

Feel better big guy. It's not all bad.

To "whiskeyjack": sure you'll hear from me again. Good to know that scowl is off your face, smiles are contagious, glad you caught mine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by whiskeyjack

It seem's as though you are implying that balance is relevant to PvE, a-net thinks differently, just look at the nerf's to some sunspear skill's.

No doubt you mean that I am implying that balance is irrelevant to PvE. Using your exact argument, if I were implying that I'd tell you to look at the PvE only skills and consumables from EotN.

Having a lot of fun with you guys, but I think there's even more fun to be had in DoA, so gonna go try and find an "ursan_Way" team and see what the hype is all about. Will check back in a few hours to see if more weak points for nerfing or name calling has occured.

Sacratus Ignis · Oct 31, 2007, 05:56 AM // 05:56

i had a ton of fun beating all of gwen, using typically 2-3 ursans for all the HM dungeons. just got my legendary master of the north last night, i did all the primaries and vanquishing and NM dungeons on my own w.heroes and henchies etc. but it was very rewarding doing the HM dungeons with the same team of alliance members using a build that let us beat all of them. It wasnt absurdly easy (some exceptions), i had a lot of fun, and accomplished my goal of getting that title. Why should it matter if the skill is a little strong if players using it are having fun? that is what a game is about, isnt it?

tmakinen · Oct 31, 2007, 07:32 AM // 07:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sacratus Ignis

Why should it matter if the skill is a little strong if players using it are having fun? that is what a game is about, isnt it?

(sarcasm) Wrong. The game is about a select few getting a chance to swing their elite e-peen at the masses of low life scrub whose only redeeming quality is that they are there to look up to these select few in reverential awe, thus anything that enables the scrubs to do anything that the select few have done totally ruins the game. (sarcasm off)

Very good and level headed arguing there, trobinson

When all is said and done, UB is still somewhat overpowered but I think that most people fail to see exactly why it is so dominant at endgame content. It's because people who are bad at playing the game are first and foremost bad at making a decent skillbar. Now when you plug in UB, they cannot fail at build making, and since UB provides a simple yet effective build even the least skilled people can do something productive. We could as well have decent in-game build templates for people to use if they don't know any better and that would also miraculously raise the average competence of a PUG (have you seen what kind of stuff people run there?

).

If you really want to nerf UB then some combination of the following should suffice:
* make Ursan Strike an attack skill instead of just a skill
* make Ursan Strike do slashing damage instead of armor ignoring
* decrease the damage from Ursan Strike by 10-25%

bungusmaximus · Oct 31, 2007, 07:40 AM // 07:40

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Originally Posted by Citadel Runner

I guess the funniest part of this is that the people who don't like Ursan don't have to use it. They know this. Its not about that. The resentment they have comes from knowing that someone else can use that skill. They hate that. They figured out a way to do certain missions using what they had, and they can't stand the fact that others now can use another way to do the same mission, perhaps even better than them. Its their game after all. How dare anyone else do something another way. Who cares if they will never see them using it (since its pve only), its the mere thought that they use it.

Maybe it's people forcing me to use it when I pug for a hard area. What if I get kicked from a group because I don't have enough points to use UB? I created 3 campaigns on 9 characters and licked every area in the game clean, now I can't get into a team because I didn't grind for a title ><. It's just not right :P. I will just have to see where it ends, if people still use real skillbars in all areas in the game it isn't as bad as it looks. But Don't say I don't want you to have fun with a new toy because that's rubbish.

tmakinen · Oct 31, 2007, 07:52 AM // 07:52

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Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

now I can't get into a team because I didn't grind for a title

Well, two things. First, if you do the norn related quests and turn in completed (NM) hero and dungeon handbooks, you will have at least r7 norn without any grind and second, the effectiveness of UB doesn't change that much with rank so you're good as long as you have the skill regardless of where you stand reputation wise.

bungusmaximus · Oct 31, 2007, 08:04 AM // 08:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmakinen

Well, two things. First, if you do the norn related quests and turn in completed (NM) hero and dungeon handbooks, you will have at least r7 norn without any grind and second, the effectiveness of UB doesn't change that much with rank so you're good as long as you have the skill regardless of where you stand reputation wise.

So you're asking me to finish the game before actually finishing it? I can't finish something twice lol. GW just was about skill>time invested, and people liked it that way.

tmakinen · Oct 31, 2007, 08:15 AM // 08:15

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Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

So you're asking me to finish the game before actually finishing it?

Surely not. You can acquire UB a couple of hours after starting to play GW:EN and as I said, you'll be good to go since reputation rank is just some icing on the cake anyway

trobinson97 · Oct 31, 2007, 10:22 AM // 10:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

Maybe it's people forcing me to use it when I pug for a hard area. What if I get kicked from a group because I don't have enough points to use UB? I created 3 campaigns on 9 characters and licked every area in the game clean, now I can't get into a team because I didn't grind for a title ><. It's just not right :P. I will just have to see where it ends, if people still use real skillbars in all areas in the game it isn't as bad as it looks. But Don't say I don't want you to have fun with a new toy because that's rubbish.

How can anyone force you to do anything in this game. It's not as if I can put my virtual arrow to your head and say "Bring UB or die." Like, tmakinem said, it doesn't take grind to get decent Norn rank (decent being imo around 5). Just doing enough to get the skill would almost suffice.

I'll put it this way, if you're the type of player who likes to have a lot of different classes in DoA so that they are availiable to your friends and guildies, then you're grinding a lot more than it would take to get rank 5 Norn. You say you have 9 chars across 3 campaigns with every area "licked clean", so you've willingly spent time grinding. Besides that, you can always choose to not run with a team who wants to use UB.

UB's existence does not equate to you not being able to get in a team because you didn't grind for a title. Not anymore than say, LB ranks, or fame does anyway. To be totally honest, I went to DoA last night, out of three districts (AD1, ID1, and E-ED1) I saw 1 person looking for a UB team. Only 4 people were in ID, maybe 2 in Europe, and of the 15 or so in AD 75% seemed to be ahking, with 1 seller spamming trade and that one poor Dervish looking for a UB team. Maybe UB is a weekend thing cuz I didn't see how it was ruining anything.

The Rift · Oct 31, 2007, 10:41 AM // 10:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by trobinson97

How can anyone force you to do anything in this game. It's not as if I can put my virtual arrow to your head and say "Bring UB or die." Like, tmakinem said, it doesn't take grind to get decent Norn rank (decent being imo around 5). Just doing enough to get the skill would almost suffice.

I'll put it this way, if you're the type of player who likes to have a lot of different classes in DoA so that they are availiable to your friends and guildies, then you're grinding a lot more than it would take to get rank 5 Norn. You say you have 9 chars across 3 campaigns with every area "licked clean", so you've willingly spent time grinding. Besides that, you can always choose to not run with a team who wants to use UB.

UB's existence does not equate to you not being able to get in a team because you didn't grind for a title. Not anymore than say, LB ranks, or fame does anyway. To be totally honest, I went to DoA last night, out of three districts (AD1, ID1, and E-ED1) I saw 1 person looking for a UB team. Only 4 people were in ID, maybe 2 in Europe, and of the 15 or so in AD 75% seemed to be ahking, with 1 seller spamming trade and that one poor Dervish looking for a UB team. Maybe UB is a weekend thing cuz I didn't see how it was ruining anything.

Amen to that m8.

yesitsrob · Oct 31, 2007, 10:42 AM // 10:42

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Originally Posted by Warskull

You are only looking at 50ish dps from bear form well specced. I can push 40-50dps as a warrior with just an IAS. Give me dragonslash and FGJ and good night, 70dps (peaking with periods on 90 dps.) Furthermore I still have plenty of slots to stack in a conjur (more DPS) and deep wound.

Bear form is amazing if you don't know how to make a skill bar. If you really know how to make a skill bar, bear form pales in comparison to potential of your skill bar.

Warskull, Dragonslash will out DPS bear form for sure under the right circumstances, but with the popularity of this appearing in DoA that has Ravenheart Gloom as one of the areas it absolutely will not.

Blurred Vision, Soothing Images, Protector's Defense, Meekness, Vocal Minority are spammed in large numbers in these places.

For what it's worth I don't run Ursan and do run Dragonslash, but considering the vast amount of warrior shutdown in Nightfall and EotN it will not out DPS a bear in most circumstances.

JeniM · Oct 31, 2007, 01:03 PM // 13:03

I don't use UB
Don't really like it
Lots of people DO like it
They have fun with it
Doesn't bother me
Helps them
Leave it be

Whiskeyjack · Oct 31, 2007, 01:23 PM // 13:23

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if I were implying that I'd tell you to look at the PvE only skills and consumables from EotN.

Fair enough, thats another can of worm's though so let's not go there in case this thread gets derailed.

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UB's existence does not equate to you not being able to get in a team because you didn't grind for a title.

Really?
How long do you think that will last?
At the moment UB is not so widespread because a surprising number of people are ignorant of its existance outside of the blood washes blood mission.
However more and more people are becoming aware of it, just today i saw 3 UB teams forming for Slavers, one of which was warrior and monks only-this is just the beginning imo. If UB is not fixed why would any PUG team take anything other than 6 warriors 2 monks?

This will all end badly, thats my prediction.

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make Ursan Strike an attack skill instead of just a skill

That should be enough to fix it imo.

trobinson97 · Oct 31, 2007, 02:27 PM // 14:27

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Originally Posted by Whiskeyjack

Fair enough, thats another can of worm's though so let's not go there in case this thread gets derailed.

Can agree with that.

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Really?
How long do you think that will last?

When I first started getting into HA, I had no rank, no fame of course. With all the rank discrimination there (and the extreme grind) I was still able to get in successful groups. When I first started going to DoA, I did not have high LB rank, and with all the rank discrimnation there (and the extreme grind) I was able to get in successful groups. No one has turned my D-Slash/SY! War because I only had rank 3 in the Friend track. Getting rank 5 in Norn (and I am not even saying you need at least 5, I just think that is a decent rank for it) doesn't seem so bad when put in comparison with those three.

I'm not saying their won't be discrimination, the GW community has proven time and again that it will find anything to use as a reason to discriminate against other people. At the same time, people will always be able to get in a group if they look long enough or in the right places (friend list, guild/alliance). I don't think Ursan would make it any harder than LB/Rank/or Friend titles.

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At the moment UB is not so widespread because a surprising number of people are ignorant of its existance outside of the blood washes blood mission.
However more and more people are becoming aware of it, just today i saw 3 UB teams forming for Slavers, one of which was warrior and monks only-this is just the beginning imo. If UB is not fixed why would any PUG team take anything other than 6 warriors 2 monks?

This will all end badly, thats my prediction.

So what's your worst case scenario here? Ursanway takes over and that's all people want to play? Again, why does it matter what they do in their instance? Just because they do it, doesn't mean I have to.

Aryn Rand · Oct 31, 2007, 02:46 PM // 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

Warskull, Dragonslash will out DPS bear form for sure under the right circumstances, but with the popularity of this appearing in DoA that has Ravenheart Gloom as one of the areas it absolutely will not.

Blurred Vision, Soothing Images, Protector's Defense, Meekness, Vocal Minority are spammed in large numbers in these places.

For what it's worth I don't run Ursan and do run Dragonslash, but considering the vast amount of warrior shutdown in Nightfall and EotN it will not out DPS a bear in most circumstances.

Il be carefull to just be certain of that, a slayer of all with r8 LB whatever that is called is doing 75+75+40%=210 dmg every ursan strike.

Now this has a 3 second recharge time and 1 second activation. As far as I know(correct me if I am wrong) since its a skill and not a spell it does not have the .75 second aftercast. This makes it hit every 3rd second for 210 dmg. This is 1 skill, the ursan bar also haves the kd wich does dmg and if done correctly prevents aloot of dmg to the team.

Third skill adds dmg 15 for 5 seconds and weakends mobs for 5 seconds as well.
It might not be as good as flail but it does keep up dmg. This is ursan in a vacum and as you say yourself, warrior shutdown really hurst a warriors dps.

But actually running a perfect team with 2 paras proper rit healer for the quest and 1 war, really does clear areas faster than the ursanway build. But this is hard to get at the end of a caimpaign aloot of people stay away from.

Belive me putting multiple characters trough an entire caimpaign just to get to doa is a chore.