Curse

Mr None · Nov 14, 2007, 08:47 AM // 08:47

In the early days of my noobiness I, as a warrior, was really determined to make this run.
It was back in the old days of Prophecies, no faction or nightfall there. The run was like 3k a person and it was all the money I had and it seemed to me that 3k is an insaine amount of welth

We've been trying for 2 days, me and random low lvl folks, to make this run or fight through. I didn't have any elite, didn't have max armour or any decent weapon.

We never made it pased the first area. Not even up to the dreadnouts. On rare ocasions, some one would make it pased the first cave but die soon after

Please listen to zwei2stein. If anything in the world can help you make this fight/run with lvl 12 henchies then it's what he is suggesting

But again, as zwei2stein said, you will NOT make it through Dreadnouts, cause the summit will camp the rezz shrine, raise 15 minions of your dead bodies and will be killing you in 2 secs after you get ressurrected.

Mark Nevermiss · Nov 14, 2007, 10:11 AM // 10:11

I found it more fun to do the desert missions, the dopple and Glint to take my Canthan warrior to Droks. Took me under 4 hours to get from LA there, including the breaks.

kidburla · Nov 14, 2007, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

if you didn't learn value of energy management or that flare sucks compared to empty skillslot in 23 months of your gameplay, you are not going to make it, ever. Sorry.

I don't run out of energy that much, I don't use exhaustion skills (except Meteor Shower), and I have a high Energy Storage (the benefit of being an Elem primary). In terms of Flare, what is everyone's problem? I use it instead of a weapon as it doesn't set off hexes like the very annoying Spirit Shackles, and causes 56 damage at my level, versus 22 for a max damage staff/wand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRGN

If you've gotten to Fisherman's Haven then you ought to be able to run something like this:
[skill]Fireball[/skill] [skill]Meteor[/skill] [skill]Meteor Shower[/skill] [skill]Immolate[/skill] [skill]Incendiary Bonds[/skill] [skill]Aura of Restoration[/skill] [skill]Fire Attunement[/skill]

[skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

You can cap Bonds off some boss in Kryta(it's on wiki). If you have other elementalist skills unlocked and/or have a lot of Balth faction, then there's some other skills to use such as

[skill]Rodgort's Invocation[/skill] and [skill]Glyph of Sacrifice[/skill](for Meteor Shower). But the above build is just assuming you don't have access to a whole lot of skills.

Interesting build, but no mesmer skills in there. I'm not well up on getting skills through Balth faction; if I unlock the skill using that, then can I buy it from a trainer who doesn't normally offer that skill? If not, then I don't see the point of the unlock for PvE chars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmango

Backfire is too expensive energy wise and last barely long enough for it to be good, even for PVE. Empathy should be on a mesmer. Armor of mist - why? (power spike --> no, if you MUST have an interupt, leech signet)

Yes backfire is expensive - but it is very handy! It lasts 10 seconds - only 3 less than Empathy at its maximum. I normally cast it on one of the monks in a group, they are normally stupid enough to kill themselves a few seconds later. Armor of Mist is my main running skill - not just for long runs like this one but for getting out of a tight spot (leave the henchies behind and then go back and res them later when the mobs have moved on) or just legging it to a zoning portal when I get close to the edge of a zone and I'm getting chased. Finally, Power Spike is great against spells which would normally have the longest cast times. Leech Signet has too long a recharge time and only gives you energy, well like I said I don't have much of a problem with energy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Get some elites, and go through the south where the henchies are stronger and you'll have a greater viability of not ragequitting the game after facing literally impossible odds.

I don't think that is likely. Guild Wars is like one of my favourite games, and I've done some things before which have taken ages (e.g. the aforementioned BHS->ToA, Villainy of Galrath, etc)

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Okay, i will be nice to you:

0) Get to desert, get more skills.

1) Fam, farm your ass off. Get at least 150k, the more the merrier.
2) Buy GWEN consumables:
* i recon your trip to take about 25-30 hours of unintetupted playtime, you can leave your computer running overnight so that it does not need to be one session. If your connection is unstable get some program that that would wake you up when you get DC so that you can reconect.
* you will need at least 50 of each consumable: armor of salvation, grail of holy might (most important!) and essence of celerity. these consumables are for your whole party and are not canceled when you die, and they basically make henchies equivalent of ~L18/20, making them much less useless.
* seek out player with gwen and buy them from him. pay 1k per piece, or less if you can haggle. But some powerstones with left money, use those only when you are at 60 DP to get most of them and only if you are unable to chip away at monsters at all.
3) Take some time PvPing and unlock some late game skills that would help you out. if its elite, use tome for normal skills just buy at trainer.
4) If you still feel insecure /you should/, get more party wide dp removals.
5) also, you can get some cheap XP scrolls since if you manage to kill several monsters in row, it will help to recover DP.

6) get gwen or nf, seriously, heroes would make this much more doable.

Edit:

7) !!! Get armor set with full survivor insignia and vitae runes, minor fire and minor estorage, sup vigor. get either +60 HP staff or caster sword with +5e +30hp and focus with +30hp. This should nto cost more than aditional 50k, your best armor available should be in desert.

Yes, you make some good points and I will look into those consumables. Where is good to farm though? I usually muck about solo-ing in Ascalon because it means I get to keep everything rather than splitting 20g between 8 henchmen and only keeping 3. Your point (3) is mentioning skill unlocking again - see above. Also I don't believe I can get access to tomes before completing the game, as don't have HM. Anyway, at least when I get some money I'll know how to spend it!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pick Me

Now I can't remember where exactly you can get these skills, hopefully they are available to you where you have been.

Armor of Mist or wards against the elements

Use Hex Breaker early, so when you get into a small mob of imps, you have hex breaker on, and hex breaker recharged. So when they hit you once, you stop it, then quickly use hex breaker again before you get hit by the 2nd one.

I'd suggest you just play through the game, I know it maybe boring, but at least you'll get to where you want to go.

Yes, I have Armor of Mist and Ward Against Elements. The first one is in my general build already - see my earlier post. As for WAE, I find it almost useless in running, because the ward only affects a certain radius, so you have to be in amongst the enemies before you cast WAE, by which time you're already almost dead. In terms of your HB hint, this is one of the most useful things anyone has said so far, and I will certainly use that method going forward. Finally, I'm not trying to do this because playing through the game is "boring", in fact I am quite looking forward to the desert missions, especially Thirsty River which I have heard a lot about. To re-iterate, I'm not trying to "skip" those areas of the game, I'd just like to be able to get to the SS by exploration. (Incidentally, exploration is one of the reasons I bought the game and also with WoW, and is the main reason I'm not so interested in GWF and GWN, because they restrict you a lot more in that regard).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Nevermiss

I found it more fun to do the desert missions, the dopple and Glint to take my Canthan warrior to Droks. Took me under 4 hours to get from LA there, including the breaks.

The thing is that I am intending to do those things eventually. And I'm sure that I will find them fun. But I don't like to rush through things in 4 hours, I like to explore and make the most of the game (which is why I still haven't reached the desert after 23 months).

Snograt · Nov 14, 2007, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Again, my hat's off to you and I wish you well in your endeavour. I was pretty much the same on my first slog through Prophecies; went everywhere and did everything before advancing the plot. My first char was a very bad Wammo - had Mending on my bar all the way to THK ^^. I eventually managed the Beacon's - Drok's run, but only with a group of like-minded individuals - I could have run it, but I was (and am!) far from having the level of skill required for the run.

As a suggestion, and knowing your ethos on how the game should be played - how about buying Nightfall? That's a whole new land waiting to be explored in itself, BUT - you could also send your Ele on a quick boat trip and pick up some heroes to help with your mission. This may seem a bit like cheating , but hell - it's one major skill boost having 3 high-level heroes fighting alongside you!

Once again - good luck

(Oh and yes: Watchmen for the win, as they say in these parts ^^)

Shyft the Pyro · Nov 15, 2007, 07:54 AM // 07:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidburla

But people do run through it! On their own, plus a few low-level players who want to get run to droks. People have been doing this run since well before GWF was released. They are warriors who swear by "Charge!" but this skill has the same speed boost (33%) as Armor Of Mist. So why shouldn't an E/Me be able to run through it?

I won't respond to the comments you've made on my original post (as I trust you understand where I was coming from now that you've read other people's replies), but I feel the need to explain to you the drastic differences between the skills and the professions in this specific situation.

First off, Charge affects the whole party. If you're using henchmen (or lower-level players) to take some heat off you while you run, Charge may let them get further than they would on their own. It's highly unlikely they'll make it past the imps and the wurms and the avicara at the very first choke point, but the runner won't get targeted by the AI if they do and will have a greater chance of making it through what is arguably the hardest point in the run.

Second, Charge is a shout, and activates instantly. Even if you trigger the 20% skill cast mods on both your weapon and off-hand item, you will still need to stop to cast Armor of Mist. The stopping, combined with the aftercast period during which the character cannot move, may give the enemies more time to shoot/hex/catch up to you, which in turn can end your run.

Third, Charge is an elite, and by the time a warrior can pick it up at Perdition Rock they'll have other speed boost skills in their running build. Even if restricted to Prophecies-only skills, they will have both Sprint and Charge, which activate instantly and can combine for a constant speed boost that allows the warriors to outrun pursuing enemies. Better yet, the warriors will also have Balanced Stance, which will allow them to avoid knockdown from wurms, and will be able to activate both that and a speed boost (Charge) to get away from wurm-infested spots quickly.

Even if we ignore the knockdown factor, your elementalist will not fare nearly as well. Armor of Mist will increase your AL and boost your speed, but it will not do so instantaneously. Worse, its recharge is longer than duration even at 16 Water with a +20% enchanting weapon, which means you will not be able to maintain a constant speed boost. Granted, you could make do with Windborne Speed covering the downtime, but it is yet another skill you'll need to stop to activate, which will in turn make the already hardest run in Guild Wars even harder.

Despite claiming to be an experienced player, you still fail to understand the basic requirements for completing this run that I outlined in my first post: hex removal, condition removal, healing, speed boost, knockdown prevention. The sad reality is that, when restricted to Prophecies-only E/Me skills, you will not be able to cover all these bases. That is why you will fail when you try to "run" through the place. Even if you luck out by casting your speed boost enchantments in safe spots and healing with Aura of Restoration and Shattering the hexes that get through Hex Breaker and not actually stepping on any of the Pinesouls' traps, knockdown will literally stop you in your tracks. You might manage to get away from the Azure Shadows, but the first wurm that forces you down will swallow you whole.

I have to agree that I find it admirable you've been able to find an exciting new way of making the game more challenging for you, but you seem to expect that your sub-optimal setup can prevail against a challenge that can only be completed in one of a few specific ways. I applaud your enthusiasm, and wish you the best of luck - but as a realist, I have no choice but to be sad at the many hours I feel you will waste attempting to accomplish what you're setting out to do.

"Way back before Factions," as you put it, I wanted to run/fight to Droks on my ranger too. One week of failed attempts later, I decided to simply play through the game and enjoy it rather than keep dying to the same monsters over and over. I got to Droks the "regular" way one week after that.

Take from this what you will.

Whirlwind · Nov 15, 2007, 09:10 AM // 09:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidburla

Unfortunately, this "attrition" approach is not as easy as in e.g. WoW. In WoW, you can res yourself right next to where you died. However in GW, you will always be returned to the res shrine, which I can imagine will be particularly annoying in Snake Dance.

Id just like to point out that this is not WoW, and has absolutely nothing to do with WoW and the topic and conversation is about a certain area in "Guild Wars" ! Therefor don't pollute the forum of a this game with "that word", because it is dirty and evil and it makes me feel poopy to have to read it. That is all thanks !

Pick Me · Nov 15, 2007, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidburla

Yes, I have Armor of Mist and Ward Against Elements. The first one is in my general build already - see my earlier post. As for WAE, I find it almost useless in running, because the ward only affects a certain radius, so you have to be in amongst the enemies before you cast WAE, by which time you're already almost dead. In terms of your HB hint, this is one of the most useful things anyone has said so far, and I will certainly use that method going forward. Finally, I'm not trying to do this because playing through the game is "boring", in fact I am quite looking forward to the desert missions, especially Thirsty River which I have heard a lot about. To re-iterate, I'm not trying to "skip" those areas of the game, I'd just like to be able to get to the SS by exploration. (Incidentally, exploration is one of the reasons I bought the game and also with WoW, and is the main reason I'm not so interested in GWF and GWN, because they restrict you a lot more in that regard).

Okay, so you find certain parts of the game boring, no problems here. I mean, you can't get to the Desert until you go through Kryta and Maguuma (aka, the parts you think are boring).

What will make it worse, is if you make it to Camp Rankor, you still need to go through Kryta and Maguuma because you can't reach the Desert from Droks.

If you end up with elites, you'll find those "boring" areas even more so, as you'll cake walk through it with great ease.

What do you mean "I'd just like to be able to get to the SS by exploration"? What do you mean by SS? SD = Snake Dance, SS usually means in GW terms, Spiteful Spirit. But when you say, the SS, it means a place usually.

As an E/Me, you can't use Spiteful Spirit anyway, so I'm sure you didn't mean getting the skill via exploration.

Anyway, good luck!

kidburla · Nov 16, 2007, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shyft the Pyro

but I feel the need to explain to you the drastic differences between the skills and the professions in this specific situation.

And you made a v good job of it. Thank you, you made some very good points and I can see now why the warrior prof is so good for this run.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shyft the Pyro

Despite claiming to be an experienced player, you still fail to understand the basic requirements for completing this run that I outlined in my first post: hex removal, condition removal, healing, speed boost, knockdown prevention. The sad reality is that, when restricted to Prophecies-only E/Me skills, you will not be able to cover all these bases. That is why you will fail when you try to "run" through the place. Even if you luck out by casting your speed boost enchantments in safe spots and healing with Aura of Restoration and Shattering the hexes that get through Hex Breaker and not actually stepping on any of the Pinesouls' traps, knockdown will literally stop you in your tracks. You might manage to get away from the Azure Shadows, but the first wurm that forces you down will swallow you whole.

Yeah, I know what you said. But the monsters I'm facing at the moment don't have knockdown skills, and I am taking the philosophy of "cross that bridge when you come to it". I can't even begin to plan a strategy for fighting/running past an enemy I haven't even seen yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shyft the Pyro

be sad at the many hours I feel you will waste attempting to accomplish what you're setting out to do.

Don't be sad. It'll all be good fun. I'm not addicted!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whirlwind

Id just like to point out that this is not WoW, and has absolutely nothing to do with WoW and the topic and conversation is about a certain area in "Guild Wars" ! Therefor don't pollute the forum of a this game with "that word", because it is dirty and evil and it makes me feel poopy to have to read it. That is all thanks !

Apologies, I didn't realise people felt quite so strongly about it. I'll try not to mention it again!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pick Me

Okay, so you find certain parts of the game boring, no problems here. I mean, you can't get to the Desert until you go through Kryta and Maguuma (aka, the parts you think are boring).

What will make it worse, is if you make it to Camp Rankor, you still need to go through Kryta and Maguuma because you can't reach the Desert from Droks.

I never said that I found any of the game boring! I have completed Kryta and Maguuma (except the missions, which I'm working on). I loved both those regions, I don't find any of the game boring!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pick Me

What do you mean "I'd just like to be able to get to the SS by exploration"? What do you mean by SS? SD = Snake Dance, SS usually means in GW terms, Spiteful Spirit. But when you say, the SS, it means a place usually.

As an E/Me, you can't use Spiteful Spirit anyway, so I'm sure you didn't mean getting the skill via exploration.

Lol. By SS I just mean "Southern Shiverpeaks". Now I know that this is technically not correct, because technically by just walking into Lornar's Pass out of Beacon's Perch, you have reached the "Southern Shiverpeaks" (as Lornar's Pass is in the Southern Shiverpeaks technically). But I meant the areas of Southern Shiverpeaks further south than that, i.e. below Snake Dance and Grenth's Footprint.

angmar_nite · Nov 17, 2007, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Let's think this through. You need more than 33% speed boost to do the run.

You need PERMANENT fast acting speed boost. Warriors have sprint and charge which can be alternated.

You need hex removal to fight snares. Warriors have a combination of hex breaker, smite hex, holy viel.

You need a proper self heal rather than aura of restoration. Warriors have healing signet.

You have to be able to tank a bit which an ele runner just can't do.

And you need an extraordinary amount of skill and familiarity.

Thing is, all droks runners already have a good selection of running skills and such available to them. Ele's only have armor of mist which is already bad due to recharge and long cast time.

And the

Yeah, I know what you said. But the monsters I'm facing at the moment don't have knockdown skills, and I am taking the philosophy of "cross that bridge when you come to it". I can't even begin to plan a strategy for fighting/running past an enemy I haven't even seen yet.

line is just foolish. If you waste all 8 skill slots without anti knockdown, it doesn't matter how far you get. And you can plan. Wiki is your friend. It's as giants with ranged combat, decent damage, large numbers, aoe knockdown, and trigger spawning nightmares with signet knockdown.

pumpkin pie · Nov 17, 2007, 05:07 AM // 05:07

I think Lonar pass is kinda like the reputation points you need to gather to get to the good armor in prophecies, you are not suppose to skip that other exit, but if you can reach the armor fair and square through Lonar pass with your character (without paying or having a friend run you) you've probably earn your reputation and can get said armor.

I think you would have more success if you seek out a group of players who are lvl 20 and do it together.

arcady · Nov 17, 2007, 05:54 AM // 05:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidburla

As a postscript: in terms of "skipping game content", I do not see what I am doing as "skipping game content". I still intend to play through the missions in the correct order. I simply hold the strong belief that if an area can be reached by exploration, it should be reached by that method before attempting an "easy" method of getting to it by a mission "portal".

Well...

That's really not the right way to look at this particular situation.

Droknar's Forge is normally reached near the endgame - when there are less than 5 missions to go to finishing the game. By contrast Beacon's Perch is usually reached before a character is even level 20. Normally by only level 12-14. It is part of the early game. About 2/5 to 3/5ths of the game exists in between the two spots.

So, it is skipping through.

Original intention for the Drok's run was for a full party of 6 level 20 characters to fight down over the course of several hours using a very well balanced team build. It is today possible with single toon runs, but only as a Dervish primary and usually Assassin secondary - or sometimes a Warrior primary (but they have altered it over time in attempts to prevent warriors from doing the run - fortunately for Dervishes Anet seems to have stopped caring about the issue before Nightfall came out).

It might be possible to do it with an E/Me, but don't expect anyone to provide a reliable solution - it will mostly be about getting lucky.

Your best bet is to pay a Dervish / Assassin to run you - they usually charge 1.5k to 2k and expect to be paid at Snake Dance and Camp Rankor. If the runner asks for payment upfront it is almost surely a scammer.

arcady · Nov 17, 2007, 06:08 AM // 06:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr None

But again, as zwei2stein said, you will NOT make it through Dreadnouts, cause the summit will camp the rezz shrine, raise 15 minions of your dead bodies and will be killing you in 2 secs after you get ressurrected.

Yep.

I actually tried to run this one on my E/Me a few months ago and I had 3 heroes with me when I did it. After 6 hours I finally got to Dreadnoughts, but at 60%DP across the board. And sure enough, they camped the rez shrine. I was surviving for an average of a few seconds each rez, and after every rez the mob I was facing was bigger...

So I gave up. Next I logged in I zoned to Beacons, looked for a runner, and dished out some coins. I was in Droks 20 minutes later. Of course, other than buying max stat armor there was nothing for me to do there as I did not want to skip all of the content of the game, so I just zoned back up to Lion's Arch and continued with the quests I was on.

Wacky · Nov 17, 2007, 06:10 AM // 06:10

People have been able to do the Droks run with every primary profession, but generally it's quite difficult unless you're W/ or D/, so it will take quite a few times.

I managed to get it with Me/ and R/ and A/ a few times using mostly builds posted in gwguru or own invention, but it takes quite a few tries.

If you're adamant in running it, you need to have (most of these previous mentioned):

1. Speed buff
2. Anti-knockdown (EOTN has a few PVE skills that does it - I am Unstoppable and Dwarven Stability)
3. Either hex removal or Obsidian Flesh/Spell Breaker/Vow of Silence/ Shadow Form, or both. (Obsidian Flesh probably won't work well due to the -50% speed, and the rest aren't in the right secondary, so you'll want hex removal from your /Me)
4. Massive ability to tank. (maybe +armor and Stone Striker + Mantra of Earth?)
5. Note, they strip enchants, so if relying on enchants you'll need cover enchant too.
6. The Forge Runner guide from the warrior section.

I haven't tried with E/Me, but with Me/W

1. Illusion of Haste worked well enough (Armor of Mist is even better, but you need cover enchant)
2. Balanced Stance worked well enough (I am unstoppable is probably better)
3. Inspired + Hex Breaker was sufficient (barely, needs precise timing to use hex breaker twice)
4. Pre nerf "Shields Up!" was the only thing I had I think
5. I think I used something random

So ... should be doable with an E/Me. Wouldn't be easy though.

mrmango · Nov 19, 2007, 12:30 AM // 00:30

Point is, you can't do it with only prophecies skills up to your point.

sixofone · Nov 29, 2007, 08:21 PM // 20:21

I applaud your intention, no matter how "unrealistic"!

I stumbled into Lornar's Pass by accident from Beacon's Perch once I had reached there going thru the storyline campaigns. Once I got there, I didn't know what I was supposed to do - so I decided to see if I could cap an Elite, as I didn't have any at that point. I got my a** kicked, being only about lvl 12, with nothing but henchies.

Last weekend, I made the run from from Grenth's Footprint up to Beacon's Perch with a Necro I made in Nightfall. I had a full 8-man team (h&h only) with me, and made it in about two hours. I had no speed boosts (being a N/Me - I didn't intend to make the run, so I didn't bring "Illusion of Haste"). I wanted to cap an Elite in Dreadnought's Drift. Once I got there, and got the skill (rather easily, to my surprise!), I decided to push my luck and keep heading North. I made it to Beacon's Perch with a -8%DP, but otherwise whole. (I used a modified Sab's 3-man team, with myself as a SS Nec.)

Coming from Beacon's Perch, however, you're restricted to a 6-man team, and henchies will be a liability as they're too low a level.

As an Ele, the problem (aside from all those mentioned above) will be that your speed boost is an enchantment and can get stripped. (Same with Illusion of Haste as a Mes.) And they put Ice Imps to slow down Warriors since it will reduce speed by 90% for about 8 seconds on anyone with less energy than they have. You need Hex Breaker to avoid this!

If you do ever manage to make the run (solo?!), hats off to ya! That will be quite an accomplishment!!

杀TanK杀 · Dec 04, 2007, 11:06 AM // 11:06

In some places the only way to get thru is kill one.. wipe.. kill one.. wipe, at the state your character is in there is no way you are gunna be able to kill one. If you could put together a group of lvl 20 guildies that are willing to do it there is chance, but heroes are useless and I highly doubt you would manage...

Pleikki · Dec 31, 2007, 08:19 AM // 08:19

He might be ABle run Droks imo with Nec I runned BEacon-Droks with hench team With N/w for fun one day

Just Get runner or finish Jungle go to Desert FInish it and your in droks ^^ and from there it isnt hard to get rankor or what ever you want.

fgarvin · Dec 31, 2007, 12:11 PM // 12:11

Have any Guildies willing to accompany you on the trip?

Age · Dec 31, 2007, 10:10 PM // 22:10

I suggested in Sardalac that there be an outpost in South end of Lornar's with party of 8 lvl 20 henchies to get you GMC.

therangereminem · Jan 01, 2008, 03:34 AM // 03:34

ok the run you guys are talking about was not soppose to be there like most runs, but only wayt o nerf the runs is make its imposiable to fight through the areas,

so a there reason you party size is 6 and level 12 is your NOT SOPPOSE TO GO NORTH TO SOUTH BUT FROM SOUTH TO NORTH