Curse

Darkpower Alchemist · Sep 12, 2007, 10:52 PM // 22:52

You have to fudge it abit, Soti. Dropping command to 10 gives you a well of attribute points to use in tactics, or spear mastery- really your choice. Leadership at 12 is a mandatory thing when using [wiki]"There's Nothing to Fear!"[/wiki] on a human Paragon player to achieve maximum useage, but nothing says your hero needs that to be great in the support role.

Then of course, there's always [skill]Wild Blow[/skill] for stances and [skill]Gaze of Contempt[/skill] just to throw out skills that need no attribute investment to get the job done. That's what you need to do. Don't look for things always in the line of investment, but what can be used effectively with minimal investment as well. If you're using spear mastery, Cruel is probably your best bet. I, personally never run a self heal on my paragon when I'm the paragon, but on my heroes, I use leader's comfort. As an assassin, once critical agility is running, I'm a beast with blades. Which target you start with also makes for a major sticking point, but you know this of course. Scan the mob, looking for the guy who casts the protection spells/enchants, and kill him first(unless they all have gaurdian

).

Also, if you're using 2 paragons and a 3 monk setup, your paragons should definitly have Deep wound skills, and let them attack different enemies since the henchies will always follow your lead. If enchanted enemies, interupt or strip the enchant then hench mob the target. Or, you could expose defenses...just a thought. I prefer stopping the enchantment over stripping it. One is proactive(Interuption/bypassing def. measures) while the other is reactive(Enchant Stripping/skills that can't be blocked), but you seem the proactive sort.

Those are the things that make a build work, imho. Are you going the proactive route, or the reactive route. You may need to change your own build slightly, but this is what makes you a better player. Liking a build doesn't make it the best for every situation, even in PvE. Keep experimenting and you'll get it.

As for [skill]Anthem of Flame[/skill] VS [skill]Blazing Finale[/skill], AoF works partywide, while BF works on 1 player at a time. AoF is superior for party support.

SotiCoto · Sep 13, 2007, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist

Then of course, there's always [skill]Wild Blow[/skill] for stances and [skill]Gaze of Contempt[/skill] just to throw out skills that need no attribute investment to get the job done. That's what you need to do. Don't look for things always in the line of investment, but what can be used effectively with minimal investment as well.

I've stuck Mirror of Disenchantment on Dunkoro since he is already secondary Mesmer... No investment of points there, though I did have to switch him from passive to defensive, and I don't know what that will do to his behaviour. He'd better keep Protecting as usual.

Quote:

If you're using spear mastery, Cruel is probably your best bet. I, personally never run a self heal on my paragon when I'm the paragon, but on my heroes, I use leader's comfort. As an assassin, once critical agility is running, I'm a beast with blades. Which target you start with also makes for a major sticking point, but you know this of course. Scan the mob, looking for the guy who casts the protection spells/enchants, and kill him first(unless they all have gaurdian

).

To use the dinosaurs as an example... they're usually in mobs of a single species, which makes selection redundant..... but when I get mixed mobs or aggro multiple types at the same time, I'll usually go for the tough, no-block ones in the middle of the mob (Tyrannuses can block occasionally but usually don't, and live long enough to spam Death Blossom all over the shop)... They make the best targets for Death Blossom splash damage since they can't block, and any Raptors nearby get taken down without being able to do a sodden thing about it.

Yes... I know to go for the healer first... naturally... but when things are giving me difficulty, I go for the one who can take the most hits and start wailing on him to take down anything around him.

Quote:

Also, if you're using 2 paragons and a 3 monk setup, your paragons should definitly have Deep wound skills, and let them attack different enemies since the henchies will always follow your lead.

Sounds like a fun idea I suppose.... but I'm not the sort to have the hero skillbars open at all times and constantly re-target to assign the heroes to different enemies. It is FAR too much work, and leaves my character vulnerable and inactive while I do it (I'm no multi-tasker). As such... they tend to attack whatever I Ctrl+Shift+Spaced for a few moments before all switching to attack whatever I'm attacking. I've just learn to deal with that. And in that way, Deep Wound isn't needed because providing my enchants stay up and I can hit the enemy.... they go down fast enough.

Quote:

If enchanted enemies, interupt or strip the enchant then hench mob the target. Or, you could expose defenses...just a thought. I prefer stopping the enchantment over stripping it. One is proactive(Interuption/bypassing def. measures) while the other is reactive(Enchant Stripping/skills that can't be blocked), but you seem the proactive sort.

I attack first... ask questions later... and leave the herohench to their own devices most of the time. I know that an entire pack of Raptors can't be interrupted simultaneously (saying nothing of casting times on Assassin spells), not least since they don't all activate simultaneously..... but Mirror of Disenchantment can strip them all down... so that suits.
Talon Silverwing has an interrupt of sorts besides, which I count as a bonus. I only bring Zho instead if I think Interrupts are actually a necessity.

Quote:

Those are the things that make a build work, imho. Are you going the proactive route, or the reactive route. You may need to change your own build slightly, but this is what makes you a better player. Liking a build doesn't make it the best for every situation, even in PvE. Keep experimenting and you'll get it.

I have certain principles when it comes to my build. There are certain things I will tweak.... but generally if it involves changing the attribute points around then I'm basically making a new build.... and that isn't something I like to do. Minor tweaks only... one skill here and there for particular circumstances.
And when it isn't needed.... I'd rather have a Jack-of-All-Trades build than remake a new hyper-specialised build from scratch every time I go into a new area.

Quote:

As for [skill]Anthem of Flame[/skill] VS [skill]Blazing Finale[/skill], AoF works partywide, while BF works on 1 player at a time. AoF is superior for party support.

Ok.... I'll repeat myself:
Anthem of Flame triggers on the next ATTACK SKILL used by each character.
Total characters in Party: 8
Total characters with Attack Skills: 2 (myself and Talon)
AoF would be a total waste there since only Talon and Myself could use it. The Echo effects on the other hand last for a bloody long time and trigger on a very regular basis... on pretty much every character.
I do intend to test it extensively.....

... But in any case.... thanks for your assistance...

EDIT :~
Let me just be the first to say..... DAMN YOU STUPID AI!
General Morgahn will only cast Blazing Finale and Burning Refrain ON HIMSELF! They would be VERY effective in the hands of a competant human paragon spamming them on EVERYONE..... but Morgahn, in his typical retarded way, understands nothing but spamming the damned things on himself.... -_-;
And given how worthless Anthem of Flame is in context (3 seconds of burning every once in over 10 seconds {until Morgahn casts it again} from just me and Talon)..... I'm at a total loss for what I should be doing.

Back to the bloody drawing board.... -_-;

Mr. G · Sep 13, 2007, 05:11 PM // 17:11

morghan has some evil tricks up his sleeve, like double plated armor or hidden candycanes...even when my entire party goes 60% odds are he isnt over 10....

Emanuel Zorg · Sep 13, 2007, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

¬_¬ ... Two monks are, from what I can tell, insufficient for GW:EN. Everyone else who claims to be doing fine seems to be using three. Seems to make sense to me.

I'm doing fine and I use two monks. And no paragons (unless I'm playing my paragon). Dinosaurs are kind of tough, but Mhenlo + Lina > Twisting Jaws. I do avoid the Ceratadons.

SotiCoto · Sep 13, 2007, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emanuel Zorg

I'm doing fine and I use two monks. And no paragons (unless I'm playing my paragon). Dinosaurs are kind of tough, but Mhenlo + Lina > Twisting Jaws. I do avoid the Ceratadons.

If you avoid Ceratodons, I take it you don't set foot in the Shards of Orr....

Infuriation-station much.

Cathode_Reborn · Sep 13, 2007, 10:30 PM // 22:30

A pure defense paragon seems useless in pve.

2 monks can handle most things if the rest of the team is good. 3 monks can handle everything (including the elite dungeon), no need for more defense if you have 2 hench monks and 1 well setup hero monk. If I wanted more defense, I wouldn't use a paragon. Yeah they're very good in pvp as we all know but this is pve.....take advantage of the crappy ai builds - hexes/condtions arn't removed very often, but usually are easy to reapply if they are. A curses nec can use Enfeebling blood/Shadow of fear to make melee classes nearly harmless....they also still do decent damage using SS/Insidious parasite. Air ele's can do good single target damage and protect the team with a blind skill + Epidemic to spread it. The only paragon id want on my team is a human one with pve skills - There's nothing to fear and Save yourselves....then he can give the team massive protection and use 16 spear mastery with plenty of space for attack skills.

Emanuel Zorg · Sep 14, 2007, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

If you avoid Ceratodons, I take it you don't set foot in the Shards of Orr....

Infuriation-station much.

Sure I do. There aren't Ceratadons in Shards of Orr. Just bring some holy damage and condition removal and you'll be fine. It's kind of frustrating for an assassin, I'm thinking I might try Sight Beyond Sight next time.

blue.rellik · Sep 14, 2007, 02:40 AM // 02:40

This is old news, Morghan (and Paragons in general) have always rocked in PvE. I've been taking Morghan everywhere since I got him in NF

foo · Sep 14, 2007, 05:48 PM // 17:48

original two paragons by the op:
OQGkUNlpJjmj72CDi5K+4aMMWeD
OQGlUFlpJeuo44utwcl1NH+drhhx

Lord Juan · Sep 14, 2007, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Well, as someone who recently leave a fire elementalist and minion master jobless for Morghan and Hayda, i have tho say that paragons are like tanks >.<, i not only can resist a lot more but also kill things even faster than with Zhed and Livia, so i went for to test them by vanquishing vabbi, and, in few words, the henchies, a hero and i was running around with 60% dp and the paragons had morale boost >.<

Paragons are simply amazing, definitely a class made for the battle front.

jimmyboveto · Sep 14, 2007, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onarik Amrak

It's not even that hard, I did it with heroes and henchies.

But having a single para stand up to them is pretty funny lol.

Ya, I just H/H. I brought 1 LoD monk, vekk, and a mm. Henches were Cynn, Herta, mehnlo, and talon.

Anywans, just pinged mehnlo and his other henchy buds over to oola's side with master of whispers. Then, i hung out with my zhed(air magic because of iron mist) and dunkoro. I kept SY up most of the time, and it was fairly easy.

the Puppeteer · Sep 14, 2007, 10:52 PM // 22:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spazzer

You were defending the easier split. You have Oola with you on the North side, wheras Gadd defends the East side.

Gadd uses Iron Mist.

so much for the solo para for destroyers :P

fenix · Sep 15, 2007, 03:09 AM // 03:09

Okay, so I saw this thread, and COULDN'T resist posting.

Firstly, it makes me laugh that for MONTHS all of the good players have been using Paragons, and have been winning easily. Now suddenly SotiCoto posts that Paragons are good, and everyone has posted "OH GOD I NEVER THOUGHT OF PARAGONS BEFORE WHAT A GOOD IDEA". We have been saying this for MONTHS. How can you only now try it? Wonder why they were nerfed so much? They were overpowered. Everywhere. They still are, read half the Paragon skills.

Secondly, this: "I've stuck Mirror of Disenchantment on Dunkoro since he is already secondary Mesmer..."

This makes this entire thread a joke. What ever opinion SotiCoto had on bars, is nullified by that statement. If you still take his word seriously after reading this, then look up what Mirror does, then look up what Dunkoro is, and compare. You ever watched PvP before? Ever noticed that LOTS of teams bring a P/Me? Wonder why?

Thirdly, the paragon bars themselves are bad. Really bad. If you want to win easily with a paragon, keep it simple, because they are incredibly overpowered (still). Just use what is overpowered. Try Song of Restoration and Expel Hexes. The P/Me can even bring Mirror EASILY. You automatically win everything. I beat the final boss of EOTN with that, without anyone dropping below 80% health. (AND I was using all H+H)

Erys Vasburg · Sep 15, 2007, 03:31 AM // 03:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

I don't have any intention of removing that from him.

You are quite stubborn.

SotiCoto · Sep 15, 2007, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

Secondly, this: "I've stuck Mirror of Disenchantment on Dunkoro since he is already secondary Mesmer..."

Someone here suggested it as an answer to the Raptors around the Asura lands. It works well.

Laugh it up if you want, but you'll be the only one showing yourself to be a fool.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

This makes this entire thread a joke. What ever opinion SotiCoto had on bars, is nullified by that statement. If you still take his word seriously after reading this, then look up what Mirror does, then look up what Dunkoro is, and compare. You ever watched PvP before? Ever noticed that LOTS of teams bring a P/Me? Wonder why?

On the contrary, your little tirade there only demonstrates that you have your head wedged firmly up your own arse since your childhood.
I've heard it worded better by school-kids, and it wasn't any more valid then.

What one person here recommends, the next mocks... and frankly I think most people here are even more clueless than I am. Apparently I'm the only one who doesn't think himself god of the game.

bpphantom · Jan 18, 2008, 02:41 PM // 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by foo

original two paragons by the op:
OQGkUNlpJjmj72CDi5K+4aMMWeD
OQGlUFlpJeuo44utwcl1NH+drhhx

Excellent! Thanks.

I just picked up Morghan last night from NF with my Derv, and still need to do Gadd (fsck Gadd!), before I can do GOLEM. I'm curious to see if Morghan's build will help in the Shards at all.

cerb · Jan 18, 2008, 06:18 PM // 18:18

What else can you expect from Morgahn Freeman?