Curse

Cebe · Apr 13, 2008, 02:21 PM // 14:21

After having played a number of matches in Fort Aspenwood, on both sides, I am under the distinct impression that it is extremely difficult for the Luxons to get a win. There are several reasons for this, I've noticed:

1. The Siege Turtle gets very distracted trying to fire on humans stood on the "battlements" inside the base. So long as there is someone stood behind an obstacle, the Siege Turtle will try to fire on him/her until someone else managed to kill them.

2. Monks. Human Monks on the Kurzick side will bond every strategic NPC they can find, it seems. There usually seems to be 1-2 Monks per game, and even when you go in as a character devoted to enchantment stripping, due to the ease of which your primary offense is distracted, it is still very difficult to kill the NPC is the "downtime" between the enchantments being stripped, and the Monk re-casting the enchantments.

3. Due to the fact that the Kurzicks win so easily, the Kurzick Arena Town is much busier than the Luxon Town, and the quality of the players on the Luxon side simply isn't up to those from the Kurzick side.

So I'm setting up this poll, to get an idea of the state of Fort Aspenwood.

Fort Aspenwood used to be fun for both sides. I've played on both sides, and for a good long while after Factions was released, there was a reasonable win:lose rate for Luxons and Kurzicks. Now it seems Kurzicks have the upper hand more and more, and that seems unfair.

Oh well, discuss I guess.

Xerzes II · Apr 13, 2008, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Maybe that's just you. Pretty much every time I play as Luxons we manage to pull through and win, it just depends on the team u have.

TempusReborn · Apr 13, 2008, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Sorry to be contrary but did Fort Aspenwood 20 times a week ago, for some stress relief-complete PuGs - And the Score Rate was 19 Luxon: 1 Kurzick

Muranodo · Apr 13, 2008, 03:24 PM // 15:24

I've been one of those monks who bond every NPC in sight before; it goes to say that it's all team-based as mentioned here.

If the Luxons had MMs, I'd notice imbalanced Kurzick teams would fold rather easily with even two bonders. Plus, even if there are more on the Kurzick side---that also tends to mean more leechers.

Taurus · Apr 13, 2008, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Not that easy, if you're on the luxon side do this : grab a touch ranger with 3 stances ( you dont need a rez ), get inside the green gate ( wait for someone to bring in the amber ) and kill all the three architects.

Schmerdro · Apr 13, 2008, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Well, I would say that it's easier for a good GW player to have a major impact on the Kurzick side by playing a Monk bonder. On the Luxon side, you need good damage, good defense (for turtles and players), and sometimes enchantment removal so it's more complicated and challenging. But then again, on Kurzick side people have to play defensively (play a Monk or Rit, run amber, kill Turtle and not so much Luxons) while Luxons have a simplified combat goal of just killing all Kurzicks (hopefully they focus more on NPCs than players)

I don't play too frequently but when I played on Kurzick with my Monk I won 90% of the time. On the Luxon side, I won 66% of the time.

I think it also depends on which map there is in Alliance Battles. During Caanay Canyon/Etnaran Keys, the best Luxon players are more likely to AB and the best Kurzick players are more like to play Aspenwood... and vice versa.

But yeah, I got bored with bonding behind gates so now I'm full time Luxon with a Beatmaster Ranger with EoE

(rank 8 Luxon and rank 1 Kurzick)

Edit: Just a helpful thread: Fort Aspenwood balance?.

Edit: Just my suggestions for the most useful builds on both sides:
Kurzick: Monk (anything but smite), Restoration/Communing Ritualist (can't kill Spirits behind gates), Spike/Interrupt Ranger (height advantage), Amber Runner (Ele, War, Derv, Ranger, Sin etc. can do this).
Luxon: Monk (anything but smite), any AoE damage dealer (Rit, Ele, Ranger), Anti-caster Mesmer or Necro, Beastmaster with Enraged Lunge and Edge of Extinction, Minion Master. But ALWAYS equip Gaze of Contempt from a Necro secondary and bring a speed booster when you can!

Cebe · Apr 14, 2008, 07:22 AM // 07:22

Well it's certainly plausible that it's just my bad luck, though, I thought luck sometimes went the "other way" from time to time. Not so far for me it seems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurus

Not that easy, if you're on the luxon side do this : grab a touch ranger with 3 stances

As much as I don't like Touch Rangers, that actually seems like a decent suggestion. At least the lifesteal bypasses the bonds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muranodo

If the Luxons had MMs, I'd notice imbalanced Kurzick teams would fold rather easily with even two bonders.

Herein lies the problem as far as I'm concerned: When monks bond the people at the gates, there is precious little to kill and raise minions from.

As far as I'm concerned, I've been doing it all right, I've played Monk, Necro, Mesmer and Ele in Fort Aspenwood recently (Luxon Side) and only once did I manage to win. I won on my Mesmer and got cursed by the Kurzick Monk for diverting their Blessed Signet. Though trying it as Mesmer a couple of other times...we got nowhere.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmerdro

good defense (for turtles and players)

Doesn't seem much point in keeping the turtles alive, as I found out on one of my recent attempts as a Monk. Kurzicks stand on the battlements and draw the Turtle's fire. The turtle is then out of the game until the Kurzick player dies.

the ruloes · Apr 14, 2008, 09:58 AM // 09:58

I've played a couple of matches as a mind blast elementalist on the Luxon side. Generally, I've been winning a lot.

Bonders are hardly ever a challenge, since I just go /N and bring [gaze of contempt] , then time it so that the turtle hits a fraction of a second later than I strip a bonded person. Usually, the bonders are too late to pick up that they've lost their bonds, and they don't have the time to set up their bonds again before I've killed their subject.

The only issue I've really found to be a difficulty are degenerators constantly killing turtles, and me not having any support to save them (and monks are hard to find). But I guess I can't complain, the turtles do incredible damage, and the only way to kill them seem to be by degeneration or life steal.

Whether or not we win a match seem to be determined on whether or not the turtles progress and if they survive.

Schmerdro · Apr 14, 2008, 12:43 PM // 12:43

I've played a Touch Ranger quite a few times and I didn't really like them because their DPS is too small (I would prefer more spike damage with a longer recharge to compensate), they only affect one target at a time (a Chanelling Rit, Fire or Earth Ele, or Barrage Ranger could break a gate or capture a mine faster), and they run out of energy too soon (even with 16 Expertise and Offering of Blood), and they're melee range (too predictable and easily countered by healing Monks).

Quote:

When monks bond the people at the gates, there is precious little to kill and raise minions from.

Sometimes yes, but usually the Necromancer has a few minions before getting there and can spam Gaze of Contempt/Rend Enchantments; with a little help from some allies, that should be enough to break down the gate.

Quote:

Doesn't seem much point in keeping the turtles alive

Did you ever try killing or just pressuring whoever is holding up the turtle? Also, the Monk would be keeping the turtle alive and anybody near it (like those who are trying to break down the nearby gate). The Turtles are extremely useful when Green Gate is down and their powerful AoE attack can damage Gunther and any Kurzicks close to him (the Monks will run out of energy if they try to put Protective Spirit on everyone).

dazza30987 · Apr 14, 2008, 02:10 PM // 14:10

I normaly run MM for the luxon side and have only lost once out of the last 15 time's ive played. The minion's seem to cause enough of a problem for the kurzick's as long as there's enough body's of corse.

Divine Xan · Apr 14, 2008, 02:45 PM // 14:45

I play on both sides (reasonably frequently) and I can say from my experience it is FAR easier on the luxon side. Also ever since the coward buff I have find it even more difficult on the kurzick side due to the insane amount of cowards thrown at you (Love the skill... its just 4 warriors...).

With the luxons it just-> enchant removal -> nuke -> easy... most players on both sides are not amzingly good, even to the point where playing a cripshot can allow you to run rings around people who STILL try to attack you (on either side). As for the number of monks its i find 1 or 0... its a rarity i find to get more then that, and most people who play are not tactical about what they bring.

So, basically, from my own experiences... I find the luxons win more and its easier for them...

ADDITION: Wheres the poll choices for playing both sides lol?

XDeadboltX · Apr 14, 2008, 04:18 PM // 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divine Xan

I play on both sides (reasonably frequently) and I can say from my experience it is FAR easier on the luxon side. Also ever since the coward buff I have find it even more difficult on the kurzick side due to the insane amount of cowards thrown at you (Love the skill... its just 4 warriors...).

With the luxons it just-> enchant removal -> nuke -> easy... most players on both sides are not amzingly good, even to the point where playing a cripshot can allow you to run rings around people who STILL try to attack you (on either side). As for the number of monks its i find 1 or 0... its a rarity i find to get more then that, and most people who play are not tactical about what they bring.

So, basically, from my own experiences... I find the luxons win more and its easier for them...

I havent played aspendwood for a while but this is why I stopped. At least in AB you can bring guildies with decent builds and will work together. When aspenwood first came out it was juts chance if you would get in with friends/guildies because of its popularity

Bront · Apr 15, 2008, 07:11 AM // 07:11

I've played as the Luxons several times, and the Kurzicks once, and only lost once (as a Luxon).

It depends on who you get, but I've found a good Kurzick's team can thwart a Luxon team, and a good Luxon team can thwart a Kurzick team.

The Luxons need to not be afraid to die, keep control of their mines, and babysit the siege turtles to a point.

The Kurzicks need to neutralize the siege turtles, take the mines and run amber (This isn't done enough from what I can see, but rebuilding gates and shortening the match are big deals), and try to get the luxons to overextend.

Parson Brown · Apr 15, 2008, 12:40 PM // 12:40

I remember when Factions came out and everyone was crying about how impossible it was for Kurzicks to win.

Then... someone tried bonding the gate guards... and it was impossible for Luxons to win.

Then... most Luxons started carrying enchant removal... and it was impossible for Kurzicks to win again.

Then... Kurzicks started pulling the Luxon warriors to the back of the arena, preventing the turtles from respawning... and it was impossible for Luxons to win.

As has been said, if Luxons keep their mines, protect turtles, and worry more about NPCs than killing players, they will win. If Kurzicks remember that they are there to defend and run amber, they will win.

Cebe · Apr 15, 2008, 03:08 PM // 15:08

Ok, so that seems encouraging...perhaps I really am getting THAT unlucky with the groups I get stuck into.

I find it interesting though that the poll shows a lot of people "usually play Kurzick", and "win a lot", compared to the Luxon options. Would I be correct in assuming the Kurzick side is more popular due to their propensity to bond up all their NPCs, and hence, people consider it an easier win?

Divine Xan · Apr 15, 2008, 03:16 PM // 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parson Brown

As has been said, if Luxons keep their mines, protect turtles, and worry more about NPCs than killing players, they will win. If Kurzicks remember that they are there to defend and run amber, they will win.

Sadly they dont most of the time

, though it can be a good laugh to see people run off to '1v1' and then start shouting at each other...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

I find it interesting though that the poll shows a lot of people "usually play Kurzick", and "win a lot", compared to the Luxon options. Would I be correct in assuming the Kurzick side is more popular due to their propensity to bond up all their NPCs, and hence, people consider it an easier win?

The poll cant be known to be highly accurate, though i will say that i find the kurzick side is more popular, yes, but there doesnt seem to be a reason, bonders I find are not that common (mesmer fixes this extremly easily btw, and gaze..) so if people could see this as easy wins then people would run bonders more frequently... but the Kurzick side is certainly more frustrating to play and I find there usually of worse quality (from personal experiance).

PS: Yes you probably are unlucky

Schmerdro · Apr 15, 2008, 03:16 PM // 15:16

Imo, the poll shouldn't be taken very seriously because you can not know for sure if people are lieing or voting honestly, and you don't know what kind of players actually voted on this forum (maybe there are more Kurzicks than Luxons for example). It's a fun poll no doubt, but it doesn't say much.

Edit: What Divine Xan said. I definitely agree that the Kurzick side always has more players than the Luxon side which means Kurzicks wait considerably longer to get in... idk how that affects their winning rates but it's another observation.

Shayne Hawke · Apr 15, 2008, 05:31 PM // 17:31

If they don't like it, I suggest that the Luxons play Jade Quarry.

=D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

Would I be correct in assuming the Kurzick side is more popular due to their propensity to bond up all their NPCs, and hence, people consider it an easier win?

I'd actually say that the Luxon side is better to play, just because you can end the game sooner and get more faction for it. It's really a gamble though, because you can end soon and have a full reward, or you can play the whole game and get nothing. Kurzick is a lot more balanced for the end reward.

Bront · Apr 16, 2008, 12:10 AM // 00:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

Ok, so that seems encouraging...perhaps I really am getting THAT unlucky with the groups I get stuck into.

I find it interesting though that the poll shows a lot of people "usually play Kurzick", and "win a lot", compared to the Luxon options. Would I be correct in assuming the Kurzick side is more popular due to their propensity to bond up all their NPCs, and hence, people consider it an easier win?

The Kurzick side is more popular due to their ability to FFF easier, so many people who want to max out their title chose a Kurzick guild over a Luxon guild. That may also elude to the quality of Kurzick players too, though I'm aware not everyone who gets run or FFFs is unskilled.

When do you usually play FA? You could probably organize some people who've had success in it togeather to try to play around the same time.

The big thing though, is play smart and play for the win. Part of the problem lies in many players leaving if there's no monk (on either side, dumb since no DP and res is 6 sec, so death isn't a big deal, and can occasionaly be the fastest way to recharge skills and energy), and players playing like it's a normal PvE area (not even a mission). People Leeching don't help either, but that happens everywhere.

I've found builds that work well there that I wouldn't dream of taking elsewhere. It's an odd mix of PvE, a Mission, and PvP.

Saborath Gilgalad · Apr 16, 2008, 03:57 AM // 03:57

I've played countless of FA on both sides since factions came out and it always has been easier to win on the Luxons. However, when it first came out winning on the luxons was beyond quick and easy, you used to be able to go in and steam roll your why through it in like 5min. Now with the changes to the Luxon warriors and more so the turtles its a bit harder and more annoying, especially when a single ranger can aggro and hold the turtle indiffinently. Though the luxons still tend to win a majority of the time.