Curse

byteme! · Sep 15, 2008, 05:30 AM // 05:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by pizzamonkey

In response to the topic's name, I went to DoA earlier and this is what I saw:

Click Me

Pretty lonely place now, eh..

My point exactly. As stated in my previous post. All these screenshots and stuff from above posts are irrelevant. You have guildies/friends who are capable of completing DoA with. This leaves a huge population unable to participate in what is supposed to be "endgame" content.

@Pizzamonkey....you're SS was an hour earlier then my post. It's not that late yet in my time zone and yet it's a ghost town.

Racthoh · Sep 15, 2008, 07:53 AM // 07:53

The most heavily populated PvE areas are going to be the ones that yield the greatest amount of wealth in the least amount of time with the least amount of effort.

Temple of the Ages always has districts as Ectos are the main form of game currency and the only place to get them is in the Underworld. The Tomb of Primeval Kings can drop ecto as well but the difficulty is greater than that of The Underworld. Also because The Fissure of Woe is the only place to buy your expensive (and thus, most desired) Obsidian Armor and collect Obsidian Shards. We can also attribute a decent population of players solo farming the area at any time, as very little has been done to halt the earliest of solo methods.

When Thought Stealer and Hopping Vampire could drop loot and the method of farming them with spirits became widespread Urgoz was packed. Not to complete it but to loot.

Augury Rock was flooded with bots because farming griffins was absurdly easy. When that was removed they moved to Elona Reach to farm the minotaurs. Again not to complete the mission but to exploit this simple method of obtaining wealth.

Mountain Trolls outside of Droknar's Forge was the same situation.

EoE bombing grawls was an option for rangers.

Vermin in Cantha, running luxon supplies. What could possibly make Lutgardis Conservatory home to a plethora of players at any given time of day?

Raptors.

Look back at my original statement:

Quote:

The most heavily populated PvE areas are going to be the ones that yield the greatest amount of wealth in the least amount of time with the least amount of effort.

DoA is the perfect example of this. Armbraces produced equipment that everyone wanted and sold for 100k +xx ectos for the longest time. With PvE skills, removal of environmental effects, and finally consumables it became a much simpler task to farm one of these Armbraces. Ursan was one of the contributing tools to this equation, and with its removal, the amount of effort to acquire the now lesser valued Armbrace is simply not worth the time it takes. After all you must clear all four areas at once to hit that big gemstone return. The typical PuG player wants a full group and isn't very optimistic about the hero AI (not to mention they can't use PvE skills). Far too many deterrents.

It makes much more sense to abuse Shadow Form in the Underworld, mass ectos, then buy an armbrace if someone really wants one. It's much more efficient.

If you want to group somewhere you'll have to pray a motive is introduced to attract the masses. We've seen it countless times before; induction of new skins, new greens, Sorrow's Furnace, etc... DoA is just another area to suffer from inactivity because it became too much of a hassle to turn a profit. Urgoz is always dead, The Deep on the other hand seemed somewhat active from personal experience. Might have something to do with the average completion time being well under a half hour.

Quote:

Originally Posted by byteme!

This leaves a huge population unable to participate in what is supposed to be "endgame" content.

If people actually played endgame content for the content and not the spoils then DoA would still be active. Anyone doing DoA now are more than likely groups who actually enjoy playing through those areas for whatever reason. Players are upset over DoA because no amount of wealth will produce the Eternal Conquerer of the Domain of Anguish trophy.

The simplest solution to completing any area that isn't populated is to make friends in areas that are. Develop a friend's list if you don't have a guild, and take part in that content.

romeus petrus · Sep 15, 2008, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by byteme!

All these screenshots and stuff from above posts are irrelevant. You have guildies/friends who are capable of completing DoA with. This leaves a huge population unable to participate in what is supposed to be "endgame" content.

I will have to completely disagree with this. DoA was never meant to be for the casual player, or for you average PUG to roll through it with an "anything goes" build. It was designed to be the hardest of all eiltes, and now it's doing just that. If you want to complete DoA especially so in HM, you really need to have a decent PvE guild behind you, or at least a group of harcore PvE friends. Dont expect to show up in GoA, form a PUG in 10 min, and just blaze through it.

The screens I posted are there to show that even full HM runs are quite possible in a very reasonable amount of time. They disproof the notion that DoA is now impossible to do.

Karate Jesus · Sep 15, 2008, 02:44 PM // 14:44

All the guys I know that used to do DoA are hung up on HM VS farming right now. Can't say I blame them, either. It's easier and worth more than doing DoA.

romeus petrus · Sep 15, 2008, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

All the guys I know that used to do DoA are hung up on HM VS farming right now. Can't say I blame them, either. It's easier and worth more than doing DoA.

Here's the difference: when you do VS farming you do it for the chance of getting a VS. 99.9% of the time you get something really worthless. When you do DoA especially if you are doing a full run, you are guaranteed an X number of gems at the end. In case of a full HM run you are guaranteed 20-24 gems at the end; i.e an armbrace in 3 runs.

Karate Jesus · Sep 15, 2008, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by romeus petrus

Here's the difference: when you do VS farming you do it for the chance of getting a VS. 99.9% of the time you get something really worthless. When you do DoA especially if you are doing a full run, you are guaranteed an X number of gems at the end. In case of a full HM run you are guaranteed 20-24 gems at the end; i.e an armbrace in 3 runs.

Idk, I get some pretty decent drops. Haven't gotten a VS yet, but I have gotten some other decent weapons and a lot of my guildies have gotten VSs already.

Unreal Havoc · Sep 16, 2008, 01:02 AM // 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

The Tomb of Primeval Kings can drop ecto as well but the difficulty is greater than that of The Underworld.

Difficult? I didn't realise using a Perma Sin in ToPK was hard...

byteme! · Sep 16, 2008, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by romeus petrus

I will have to completely disagree with this. DoA was never meant to be for the casual player, or for you average PUG to roll through it with an "anything goes" build. It was designed to be the hardest of all eiltes, and now it's doing just that. If you want to complete DoA especially so in HM, you really need to have a decent PvE guild behind you, or at least a group of harcore PvE friends. Dont expect to show up in GoA, form a PUG in 10 min, and just blaze through it.

The screens I posted are there to show that even full HM runs are quite possible in a very reasonable amount of time. They disproof the notion that DoA is now impossible to do.

The entire selling point of GW was it being casual in the first place. No where did I or anyone else mention DoA wasn't supposed to be hard. No where did I mention DoA can be blazed through with any run of the mill build. But "you" speaking from a person who has the resources via friends list/alliance, it's very easy for you to sit here and say what you say now isn't it? Hind sight is 20/20.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

The most heavily populated PvE areas are going to be the ones that yield the greatest amount of wealth in the least amount of time with the least amount of effort.

Of all your examples the only 1 that still holds true in terms of "greatest wealth least effort" is ToA. Outside of special events the rest are pitiful in terms of profit due to loot scaling. However having read what you've stated. DoA gems are not affected by loot scaling. Some of which can be farmed via 1-3man teams (with humans or heroes). Profit is there but the community isn't.

Having said all of this. No one forms an 8man party to farm Trolls, Minotaurs, Vermin, Raptors etc... Has absolutely no relevance to what I was talking about in the first place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by romeus petrus

When you do DoA especially if you are doing a full run, you are guaranteed an X number of gems at the end. In case of a full HM run you are guaranteed 20-24 gems at the end; i.e an armbrace in 3 runs.

Even this guy thinks DoA is profitable. So where is everyone?

Senrath · Sep 16, 2008, 01:58 AM // 01:58

People aren't there because DoA requires coordination that most groups can't pull off. PUGs are almost guaranteed to fail, sadly. Combine this fact with the fact that DoA has lost its novelty, means for a very empty area. If it was still novel, then it would be teaming with people, like it was in the beginning, even though most people never managed to clear more than a single area with PUGs XD

romeus petrus · Sep 16, 2008, 04:55 AM // 04:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by byteme!

Even this guy thinks DoA is profitable. So where is everyone?

It is only profittable by our standards if you do a full HM run, otherwise it is not worth it. But that is only by our guild's standards.

DoA is probably the last area in the game that hardcore PvE players can enjoy. It is empty not because it is not profittable, but because it takes a certain amount of effort and coordination to be profittable, that your average PUG can't provide. Hence most "casual players" who want to experience the elite areas, move to less intense areas like UW, FoW, and Slaver's (although the last one hardly qualifies as an elite area in my book). This way they are able to join pugs, do elite areas, farm golds and ectos, and make decent money without having a hardcore PvE guild behind them.

DoA now is the way it was always meant to be, a truly "Elite" area reserved only for well organised and experienced grps.

Hiero · Sep 16, 2008, 06:24 AM // 06:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by romeus petrus

DoA is probably the last area in the game that hardcore PvE players can enjoy.

Enjoy and DoA in the same sentence? That can't be right.

romeus petrus · Sep 16, 2008, 01:43 PM // 13:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hiero

Enjoy and DoA in the same sentence? That can't be right.

You'd be surprised.

We've been having hella fun there lately. A few areas in the game require this degree of team coordination.

Shady S · Sep 16, 2008, 04:55 PM // 16:55

I am in a guild of 2, the leader never plays often anymore, so I have been chasing titles and just having PUG fun. Though I have 0 chance of success, the shear length of this thread and the passion in the dialogue is enough to get me into DOA.

Cya's there.

Trub · Sep 16, 2008, 11:44 PM // 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by romeus petrus

DoA is probably the last area in the game that hardcore PvE players can enjoy. It is empty not because it is not profittable, but because it takes a certain amount of effort and coordination to be profittable, that your average PUG can't provide. Hence most "casual players" who want to experience the elite areas, move to less intense areas like UW, FoW, and Slaver's (although the last one hardly qualifies as an elite area in my book). This way they are able to join pugs, do elite areas, farm golds and ectos, and make decent money without having a hardcore PvE guild behind them.

DoA now is the way it was always meant to be, a truly "Elite" area reserved only for well organised and experienced grps.

^ Agree 100%
During the period of time we all agonizingly remember as 'The UB craze.', DoA was opened to the 'casual' player that wanted to make a fast plat or two...not experience the most elite area in GW.
Most PuGs aren't there to learn how it is done...they are there to steam roll the big monkey, and get the goods.
Sadly...they didn't realize that the Margos do hex, e-drain, and the enviromental effects can kill you.
You need to work as a team to get anywhere in DoA...and have at least 2 others that have done it many times before. Most puggers have the attitude that their build alone will carry everyone else..just because they paid for the game, and have 'access' to EVERY area of the game...doesn't mean their toon will survive the first quest to Mallyx. lol
Guild Wars iz serious business.

Darkside · Sep 17, 2008, 06:33 AM // 06:33

I actually went to the Gate of Anguish today to see if I could pick up a pug with my Paragon (I haven't been there since a little before the ursan nerf). I didn't really see much going on... there were probably about 5-10 people there one farm team and the rest just sorta standing around. Could have maybe been an alliance group forming up I dunno (guild tags were all different, didn't ask). Either way it was pretty dead looking to me.

I realize this thread isn't about Ursan but I agree with both sides of the argument. Ursan did let everyone play together and make pugin worth while. When you join a pug and you ask them to ping their skills you never know what your going to see. I've seen Smiting Warriors with Healing Breeze and Monks with flare and firestorm, I've pretty much seen all the worst builds you could possibly imagine...and I don't even pug a lot. Ursan made it so that you could depend on that pug and know that he would be contributing to the party. Unfortunately, at the same time Ursan removed class individuality and turned everyone into some sorta twisted melee fighter.

I'm still on the fence about all of it... was the nerf good or bad...seems like it was bad for some good for others. Can never please anyone and that's the truth...

I just find it unfortunate that the majority of the GW community to which we all refer to as PUG are left alone in limbo to suck at this game because no one will bother playing with them or showing them how to do anything.

I wish back when I started playing this game that I had someone to explain to me how everything worked...by the time I actually ran into someone willing to bother with me I had already pretty much figured out the game.

Anyway, I'm just ranting now only wanted to add my 10 cents to this conversation.

Hyper.nl · Sep 17, 2008, 06:59 AM // 06:59

Well, many people whined here for ages to nerf Ursan to keep the uneducated masses out of the elite area's so this is what you get.

sentex · Sep 17, 2008, 07:33 AM // 07:33

First of all, i want to send greetings for everyone, since this it's my first post in this forum.

I'm one of the people who have recently arrived at Guild Wars, half a year ago

, starting by buying Nightfall, after that Factions, and after that Prophecies and EoTN. I've joined a guild of 4 friends, who have been playing this since it's start... and actually they aren't playing anymore, so i'm alone

Domain of Anguish left me shocked the first time i was there (wipe at first mob

)... and i'm really encouraged for being able to beat that. We do some tries, some time ago (2 people, 6 heroes), with tank'n spank in veil... but nothing was achieved (it was fun anyway).

I really hope to find a group of people who wants to do the four missions, no matter if it's in one day, one week or one month...

I really really hope that DoA wasn't death

Lishy · Sep 17, 2008, 11:02 AM // 11:02

DoA is a challenge and fun.
Mallyx is impossible though. That is why nobody DoA's.

Nerf mallyx!

/QQ

Mordiego · Sep 17, 2008, 02:06 PM // 14:06

If you are concerned about why DoA is not done anymore... wait till October Scheduled update, when the Tormented weapons are said to be allowed to display in HoM. It is definitely going to liven up DoA and I am pretty sure ppl will come up with new team builds to beat it.
Buy your armbraces while they are still at 45-50e

romeus petrus · Sep 17, 2008, 03:13 PM // 15:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

Mallyx is impossible though. That is why nobody DoA's.

Nerf mallyx!

Mallyx is a pussy cat if you glitch the door. Most people who are killing him now are. Plus the reward from killing mallyx (crappy green or 2, 1 gemset) is trivial compared to what you get from a full HM run (20gems+ drops).