Curse

-Loki- · Aug 09, 2007, 09:51 AM // 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karlos on Wiki

To put things in perspective, I am one of the "pioneers" of defeating DoA. I was the one who discovered the first glitch (where we used to rebirth through the door and kill him without fighting the mobs that assault the Priest) and I was the one who discovered how to glitch him by the door. I don't say this to boast or brag, I say this to establish that there is no lack of experience with Mallyx here.

You're a 'pioneer' because you cheated to beat him - you found out how to break his AI. That's not being a pioneer of beating the area, it just means you found a bug and exploited it.

ryanryanryan0310 · Aug 09, 2007, 10:01 AM // 10:01

Thread had become an E-peen thread. Just lots of people who couldn't do it before and now doubt another group doing it. Get over it and move on.

O I dislike Rawthow because he didn't take me.

Avarre · Aug 09, 2007, 10:04 AM // 10:04

I'm leaning towards closing this because of all the pathetic epeen fencing going on. It can stay open awhile longer, however, since I suppose there is more information and actual discussion to be had.

Effendi Westland · Aug 09, 2007, 10:26 AM // 10:26

Congrats to you all, and double grats to Racthoh, looks like you got over your frenzy+heal sig experience, or do you still only monk in there?

Great job indeed.

Hope this doesn't get closed, there is a great deal still to be learned.

yesitsrob · Aug 09, 2007, 10:27 AM // 10:27

Quote:

Congrats to you all, and double grats to Racthoh, looks like you got over your frenzy+heal sig experience, or do you monk only monk in there?

Great job indeed.

Racthoh fights through spiteful for adrenaline gain... and then dies.

kradens · Aug 09, 2007, 11:17 AM // 11:17

i havent read this thread in a while. tho i did read the wiki talk.

but just to be clear. i've got a few questions.

is there now an 8 man build that can take on mallyx.

and

can this be PUG (pugged?) do you reckon?

and

has anyone tried mallyx since the new discovaries?

Res Ipsi · Aug 09, 2007, 11:20 AM // 11:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryanryanryan0310

Thread had become an E-peen thread. Just lots of people who couldn't do it before and now doubt another group doing it. Get over it and move on.

I see only a particular group getting their feathers ruffled here, and it isn't the group who failed to beat Mallyx. Get over it and move on. Not like we're talking about the race to cure cancer here.

the_jos · Aug 09, 2007, 11:38 AM // 11:38

Well, this whole thread shows one thing.
It is possible (again?) to beat Mallyx.
Whether it was superior gameplay, used builds or hidden bug fix does not really matter.
They were the first to do so, so congratulations on that.

Remember, a fresh look at things could well have made the difference.
Yesterday we had a pug member in our guild team carrying Vengeace as res during a vanquish.
Think most people won't even consider that skill as res, but in this case it was very usefull. When I (monk) was spiked because our tank lost aggro, he would res me fast, enabling me to be effective for 30 seconds (full health and energy). Right before I would die, I would switch to negative energy set, making sure I had plenty of energy when I got a normal res. It's not always a usefull skill, but in this area it was.
It had been a very long time since I had seen that skill on a bar.

Karlos · Aug 09, 2007, 11:57 AM // 11:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_jos

Remember, a fresh look at things could well have made the difference.

Absolutely. This is the one thing that I think everyone should pay attention to in what those guys achieved. They beat the 18 mobs leading up to Mallyx, with FIVE heroes, on the platform, without moving the priest in 30 minutes or so. That is a wonderful feat. This rewrites how people can and should do the citadel. This is the true breakthrough, I believe. I also believe the nerfed "Enraged" plays into that.

yesitsrob · Aug 09, 2007, 12:10 PM // 12:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karlos

Absolutely. This is the one thing that I think everyone should pay attention to in what those guys achieved. They beat the 18 mobs leading up to Mallyx, with FIVE heroes, on the platform, without moving the priest in 30 minutes or so. That is a wonderful feat. This rewrites how people can and should do the citadel. This is the true breakthrough, I believe. I also believe the nerfed "Enraged" plays into that.

Yes, we didn't play DoA before the nerfed enraged because we didn't find the gameplay fun. Whether we could do it or not. We kind of like to approach pve how we want to for the most of it... and pre patch it wasn't exactly open for everything. We actually played it because a couple of weeks ago Racthoh said we had to beat Mallyx. That's pretty much it really.

Even still Invokes and Mystic Sandstorms do an absolute ton of damage if not dealt with properly... well most ele skills for that matter. Recovery owned Searing Flames something fierce... and well, having 170 or so AL at times didn't hurt either

On our Mallyx encounter, I want you to know that he did use SS. Just didn't spam it, I'd think it's pretty fair to say he did in fact use it as often as he realistically _should_ do. There was no glitching here, there was just no bug.

Karlos · Aug 09, 2007, 12:38 PM // 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

On our Mallyx encounter, I want you to know that he did use SS. Just didn't spam it, I'd think it's pretty fair to say he did in fact use it as often as he realistically _should_ do. There was no glitching here, there was just no bug.

I know, and like I have said and others, give others who have been trying credit. If they had the same opportunity you had, they would have likely had the same success. As Curtis said, you stumbled out of the Bug and got fortunate and should be very grateful for that to whatever diety you worship. (Dwayna?) :P

Going back to what you said earlier after you guys succeeded that the reason was that the average PvE crowd is just not as skilled as you guys. Now that you understand the problem more fully and read what Curtis said, I think you know now why others failed where you succeeded, why others took exception to you saying that, and I think you understand that it was not due to lack of mad PvP skillz. (Hopefully some of the others who keep thinking this is about turf or the size of reproductive organs read this and understand as well.)

I commend you guys for trying, and luck or no luck, you guys made a big step in revolutionizing what Citadel groups can do. I personally never got to Mallyx in less than 35 minutes (pulling the priest, but using Spirit Bonding to roll through the mobs) and will not mix any words in saying what you guys did (with heroes especially) is amazing.

the_jos · Aug 09, 2007, 01:42 PM // 13:42

Quote:

and I think you understand that it was not due to lack of mad PvP skillz.

I would like to comment on that, Karlos.

I have had the honor to have several experienced PvP players in my PvE guild and their knowledge and dedication do help a lot.
I am not talking about the FotM kind of players, but players that want perfection and test and practice to get there.
Good PvP players likely think in team builds and not individual builds.
When they know their enemies, they know how to counter them.
The power of paragon is known in PvP, think about paraway and the Lego HA team build.

This has nothing to do with superiority of PvP players over PvE, but with a very competitive environment where small mistakes can lead to failure.
PvE in general is more forgiving.
What I am wondering now is how long the group has been planning and evaluating skills and tactics before they went in.

I know that there are specialized PvE guilds (and I think Kaiz is one of them) that seek the same perfection.
I have had a former Kaiz member in my guild (at least I think he has been in Kaiz) and his experience also helped a lot.
Just pointing where and how to tank, when to heal, when to nuke.
I'm not a DoA player myself, but have some guildies that played a lot and they were amazed by the gain in speed by changing gameplay just a little.

However Karlos, you said it yourself: "I personally never got to Mallyx in less than 35 minutes....".
May I remind you that this statement alone does 'prove' there is a difference between your groups and theirs.

Also remember that the heroes might as well have been part of success.
Heroes are known to work good in certain situations where human players require more coordination.
Good example was the pre-nerf discord team. Put 3 humans and 5 heroes in a team and spike the enemy to death. The only thing the humans are doing is enabling the heroes to spike.

I hope I am not starting a PvP vs PvE war with this posting

Racthoh · Aug 09, 2007, 01:55 PM // 13:55

Am I being branded as a PvPer? Oo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karlos

I also believe the nerfed "Enraged" plays into that.

Yes and no.

In the four areas before Mallyx it would've been a huge change to the way our groups went through the zones. We had brought a lot of AoE enraging the mobs quickly which I can only assume would've been a deadly mistake before the change.

In the 18 waves however, it wouldn't have made much a difference at all. We packed very little AoE and even still there were few occasions that it could be used. We couldn't use the splinter/barrage when there were titans around or it would've triggered the next group coming after the original group was killed. We also couldn't use it against the few occasions were there were two waves at once in the event we killed the trigger group for the next wave. And lastly if a torment group is able to clone you're met with another enemy that you have to kill before dropping the original members of the group. As a result of all of that our group composition and skill selection was heavily geered towards taking down a single target at a time. Enemies would get enraged, get off a few attacks and then die.

Personally I didn't want to play it because of the environmental effects. Enraged was more of an afterthought. Afterall, prot spirit exists for a reason.

yesitsrob · Aug 09, 2007, 01:59 PM // 13:59

The heroes were useful, they had simple bars and we only had to manually tell them to do certain things rarely. Paragons aren't exaclty difficult to play even for a hero, Racthoh just called what he wanted dead, and things dropped fast..

Razah was pretty bad with his energy and life probably could have been simpler for me than it already was at times, and I couldn't specifically tell the ranger what to interrupt - and he missed way more spirits than I'd expect a human too. It was generally pretty difficult for our heroes to mess up though, we whined at them at times in vent but in general they did what we wanted them to.... They weren't running builds they can run better than humans, but they also couldn't exactly have run them that much worse... I mean at the end of the day they auto-attacked what we told them to, shouted when they had adrenaline.. and Rac made sure their Aggressive Refrains didn't drop.

zwei2stein · Aug 09, 2007, 02:16 PM // 14:16

"Malyx group, LF IH ranger and expel RT to go. no noobs!!!"

sad, ain't it?

Y.T. · Aug 09, 2007, 02:40 PM // 14:40

congradz guys, beating mallyx with heroes isnt a small feat. i'm not exactly happy that the way to beat mallyx dosnt include an obligatory mesmer in the group but oh well. i guess securing the spot for the ritualist is good enough. i wish we can blackout mallyx so poor neglected pve mesmers will be finally able to find a group in doa but....

i think now we'll see groups of splinter barragers with 1 command paragon evrwhere but foundry. i played with splinter barragers before the last doa updates, it was so much run. having no area effects on NM will help to make new team builds of cos. honestly after all nerfs almost evrthing can outdamage the standart SF ele - be it decent mesmer, or channeling rit, or splinter barrager ranger... i'm not surprized u guys made it past 18 waves in less than 30 min, i did it 2ce myself befor the updates - once i got lucky enough to carry my point and take 3 necros instead of SF eles (the only ele we had was air golem, it seems that SF slows things down), and once we had a dream team and no lag

i hope mallyx's chest will be fixed so we'll be able to get inscribable stygian reawers or runic blades or mb smth else... it would be nice what do u think?

Tarkin · Aug 09, 2007, 04:58 PM // 16:58

7.129 hours over the last 26 months...

7.129/26= 276...

276/30(days)= 9.2...

Impressive...

Well i kwon foes react diferent ways and use diferent skills against diferent build teams... no ele, necros and mesmers in the party? no summoning shadows... maybe...

I think the great step is kill the Soul spirits and avoid summoning shadows...

I working in HM missions in tyria just now... hero managment is a art...

Again great job...

Trub · Aug 09, 2007, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Quote:

and I think you understand that it was not due to lack of mad PvP skillz.

I think NOT.
*Hugz -a- wallow*

_______________
PvE Helpful Hint #097: Goren loves twinkies.

yesitsrob · Aug 10, 2007, 02:23 AM // 02:23

I afk a lot and don't shut GW down, I don't actually play it _that_ much :-p

Trub · Aug 10, 2007, 05:27 AM // 05:27

Has anyone else gone in yet?
I'm curious if the bug is still activating?