Curse

zwei2stein · Aug 08, 2007, 01:00 PM // 13:00

This is primary example why such hard content is bad:

It shatters illusions of some players that they themselves are really good when they (obvious cream at top) tried and failed and then someone does it with heroes.

It is kinda like how people did THK in early prophecies days with henchines.

Tarkin · Aug 08, 2007, 01:05 PM // 13:05

Good job

i ever trust in rit and paragorn...

Racthoh · Aug 08, 2007, 01:32 PM // 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale

In other words I don't doubt it happened, I just would like to work out how the main threat of Summoning Shadows was negated, as without as Mallyx is pretty easy.. Enjoy the acheivement, and I'm not meaning to take away from it one bit.

All we really need is another group to go after him and see if he is still spamming the skill.

The only possibilities I could think of that would cause the Summoning Shadows spam are parties filled with low 60 AL targets. Since most/all other groups would've attempted him with a single warrior then 7 other casters compared to our group with only 3 60 AL members. We had a warrior raging in his face who wasn't hit that much, we killed the two spirits directly to his side right away then as Gaze of Fury recharged on Trub she dropped the other two, and a few times throughout the fight he managed to summon the spirits back so I made Goren take care of it. To say those spirits have a lot of health is an understatement.

Maybe Mallyx likes to spam Summoning Shadows if he detects a single hex on anyone's bar? We had a single skill that could've inflicted a condition on him, Merciless Spear, which was disabled after the torment group was killed. Mallyx was given a deep wound once and used consume torment but it didn't send him on a SS rampage.

In any situation all it takes is another group to go fight him and see if he is still acting the ways that were reported before we took him down. We did jump in game right after the server incident yesterday... maybe that fixed him?

Edit: After reading the other replies... we fought him twice and in both instances he didn't spam the skill so it would've been a 'lucky' spawn twice in that case. When I say for the most part he ran around and smacked a few people on occasion... well, he is a melee and I had originally thought he moved faster than normal (my earlier post suggesting Ward Against Foes and Make Haste!) but kiting does the trick. On top of Defensive Anthem chaining and Weapon of Warding so he would've had a hard time hitting to begin with.

Shanaeri Rynale · Aug 08, 2007, 02:05 PM // 14:05

[email protected] and the troll crew on IRC.. Anyway..

Racthoh, thanks for getting this thread back on track and congrats again.

Interesting theory re the hexes on peoples bars. Does any other boss look at the players skill bar and adjusts their behavoir accordingly? If so that may have been the case here, but I can't remember anything else doing so.

I think I worked out the spirits had around 450 health, which is a lot more than their level would indicate,

I doubt the server reboot had anything to do with it.

It may have been the party composition, as we know targets are prioritised on health, armor and any enchants they are carrying. With the all xx profession teams we've found that aggro does act oddly with all professions of identical armor levels and near identical health.

I did notice that Mallyx seems to prioritise ressing spirits, did he get stuck in res spirit mode or use other stuff?

Yeah, another group would answer these questions. Hopefully that will happen in the next few days, so we can better predict Mallyx's behavoir.

Res Ipsi · Aug 08, 2007, 02:13 PM // 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

Seems to me like someone is grasping at straws to try and find a reason that isn't simply "I'm not as good as those guys".

You fail to acknowledge that the success of the team that finally defeated Mallyx, who presumably was working as intended, made use of information provided by those you so casually dismiss. The fact remains that previous teams had to deal with non-stop SS when facing Mallyx directly. Regardless of what antecedent events/actions triggered the different versions of Mallyx, the successful team clearly wasn't contending with the same level of difficulty previous teams faced. That is not to detract from their accomplishment, and they are duly commended for a job well done.

yesitsrob · Aug 08, 2007, 02:15 PM // 14:15

The AI reacts to all sorts of things.

Example. Shuriken Assassins will not use Shadow Shroud unless you have a Staff or Wand equipped. Things only Migraine spellcasters. I'm pretty sure Mallyx has some AI that makes him react to certain different situations, one of which that may cause his SS to be horribly glitched. He very rarely tried to res his spirits, he did it like once but didn't try much after that.
_

But it still surprises me that people haven't gone in with other builds and not had to suffer with the glitch, after talking to numerous people, and linking them to the Mallyx wiki page - means of defeating him seem pretty clear - obviously, enchants, hexes, conditions are completely taboo. Which leaves what? Spirits, Shouts, Weapon Spells - now to me, and others, this seemed obvious, the type of team composition to beat him and all... In however long the glitch to beat him was fixed I'm sure someone but us will have tried to face him with a selection of skills close to ours, and would have also beat him

So, I'd like to know, where people got the idea of 3 monks, a BiP, a Kevlar Equipped Warrior and Air Elementalists from. air elementalists? air.... elementalists.... - which is from what I hear is by far what most people go to face him with and I couldn't really think of a more horrible build really.

Monks without enchantments are horrible. Why on earth would anyone want 3 of them.

Faer · Aug 08, 2007, 02:20 PM // 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

It's simply a case of rob being good, and every one else being bad.

Except me. I'm pro at PvE. Amazingly pro.

Right?
...
RIGHT?!

So anyway Rob, Rac... You scumbags... Why was a certain Monk not invi-- Oh wait, that's right. I don't play this game anymore. What a shame.

Cheers, good fellows, and good hunting. I'll see you guys in IRC at some point, where we can discuss why you are so good at teh gaemz.

Racthoh · Aug 08, 2007, 02:29 PM // 14:29

Take a group of henchmen and swap your weapon between a spear and a sword and they will all move their positions. A rather annoying feature but just one of those things that the AI is programmed to do.

Quote:

I think I worked out the spirits had around 450 health, which is a lot more than their level would indicate.

I was autoattacking for 51 on the spirits and critical at over 100 with my 9 spec in spear which would cause the bars to drop by a sliver. Even Goren's 16 axe would barely move it. Whoever on wiki wrote that Unnatural Signet is an effective way to take them down needs to be slapped.

Shanaeri Rynale · Aug 08, 2007, 02:32 PM // 14:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

The AI reacts to all sorts of things.

Example. Shuriken Assassins will not use Shadow Shroud unless you have a Staff or Wand equipped. Things only Migraine spellcasters. I'm pretty sure Mallyx has some AI that makes him react to certain different situations, one of which that may cause his SS to be horribly glitched. He very rarely tried to res his spirits, he did it like once but didn't try much after that.

Thats a distinct possibility. The sapping nightmares in the deep won't cast Chaos storm if everyone has a melee weaon, the spirit shepherds in FoW also react differently for the same thing.

Did everyone have a melee weapon equipped, maybe Razah was getting picked on because he was'nt? Most groups that went in to get him have been caster heavy. Then again others went in with several paragons. I wonder if in those instances the casters were picked on also?

If we can determine what makes him go mental, it'll help other builds and other team compositions succeed(which is the point of my questions).

Otherwise what will happen is the build above will become the new cookie cutter, and people will play it without understanding the mechanics behind it.

Racthoh · Aug 08, 2007, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Goren would've been the only one with a melee weapon. Razah had 60 AL and his pot. Trub with 60 AL had a speed boost, Rob had his shield/spear set for 600 health with more defense and only died when he wasn't able to kite as he opened Fraps.

yesitsrob · Aug 08, 2007, 02:42 PM // 14:42

Jin got picked on a lot, and she had a Bow, I think Razah got picked on more than her since he got DP's faster since he just got unlucky with landing out of healing range with Mallyx's wild smash.

My monk has a spear and shield equipped most the time and has around 640hp. I got killed at the end.

The above build should not become the new cookie cutter. After reviewing it it's just flawed in so many ways, it worked but it's not ideal at all.

We were running Focussed Anger AND Infuritating Heat which do not stack... We had a few other adrenal skills on the para but the Focussed Anger could probably have been replaced. - Consume Soul would just be really nice elite to have.

We were running 2 Defensive Anthems, which wouldn't have been that reliable. Since only 2 of our characters were guarenteed to really get the full benefit out of it (myself and Razah)

Goren's build was extremely poor compared to a Dragonslash DPS a bar a human warrior could run.

The ranger was just generally meh.

And Trub was just running her normal build, only really changed something out for Gaze of Fury. It would really be quite ammusing to see people in AD1 saying "Rt Barrager lfg citadel"

Kashrlyyk · Aug 08, 2007, 05:02 PM // 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

All we really need is another group to go after him and see if he is still spamming the skill.

We need to look if it is reproducable.
Could it be that Mallyx´s difficulty scales with the amount of real players in the group?

Taki · Aug 08, 2007, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

...I'm pretty sure Mallyx has some AI that makes him react to certain different situations, one of which that may cause his SS to be horribly glitched.

This would be my guess as well. Weapon sets, armor, and health are the first things that come to mind for people to experiment on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

...the Mallyx wiki page - means of defeating him seem pretty clear - obviously, enchants, hexes, conditions are completely taboo. Which leaves what? Spirits, Shouts, Weapon Spells, [Wards] - now to me, and others, this seemed obvious, the type of team composition to beat him and all...

So, I'd like to know, where people got the idea of 3 monks, a BiP, a Kevlar Equipped Warrior and Air Elementalists from.

I refuse to give up on humanity and believe that no one tied the non-enchant/hex/condition skills to fighting Mallyx - they were mentioned a few times in this thread alone, though not seriously considered. The problem is that:

1) No one was prepared to actually plan out and execute a build of that type

2) The trinity has been engraved into the ignorant masses and they are not willing to go beyond that. Not even after what, eight months?

The last build used to kill Mallyx, optimal or not, is likely to become the next cc for that specific purpose. One could hope that the experience of playing in an successful unorthodox manner would open players' minds but hoping for world peace would be effort much better spent.

And this next point is perhaps the most important.

3) Despite their severe limitations and flaws, Heroes make a far better team than the majority of players. If you have to ask why then you are part of that majority.

Grenths Entropy · Aug 08, 2007, 06:44 PM // 18:44

I have followed this Topic from the start and i am happy to see that Mallys FINALLY has been beaten, great congratulations to Yesitsrob, Racthoh, Mandy, 2xGeneral Morgahn, Razah, Goren and Jin

GG you three

Quote:

2) The trinity has been engraved into the ignorant masses and they are not willing to go beyond that. Not even after what, eight months? The last build used to kill Mallyx, optimal or not, is likely to become the next cc for that specific purpose. One could hope that the experience of playing in an successful unorthodox manner would open players' minds but hoping for world peace would be effort much better spent.

I just had to quote that for truth

Once again Congratulations
Tane

anshin · Aug 08, 2007, 07:02 PM // 19:02

many congratulations to all

lets hope me and my alliance mates can also produce such feat...

AlienFromBeyond · Aug 08, 2007, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

The only possibilities I could think of that would cause the Summoning Shadows spam are parties filled with low 60 AL targets. Since most/all other groups would've attempted him with a single warrior then 7 other casters compared to our group with only 3 60 AL members.

Would make sense to constantly summon casters to pointblank range when there's a bunch of them, as opposed to a group of heavily armed and armored Warriors, Paragons, and Urn carrying Ritualists.

Now maybe if I was actually interested in the rewards and needed more money I would bother with DoA...

Burning Blade · Aug 08, 2007, 07:09 PM // 19:09

wow congrats to the team that beat Mallyx! From what u guys posted, as long as we find out how to prevent Mallyx from spamming SS at insane rate, many builds can kick his butt quite comfortably.

I just re-created new Paragon (1 with 15k armor set was deleted months ago) and you guys make me want to rush him to DOA as soon as possible.

Trub · Aug 08, 2007, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Quote:

And Trub was just running her normal build, only really changed something out for Gaze of Fury. It would really be quite ammusing to see people in AD1 saying "Rt Barrager lfg citadel"

I removed my running shoes for that!!
But on a personal note...I had a blast just getting there to do it!
The missions the snake dude FORCES you to do before you get there were challenging, and made one focus on their timing and use of skills available.
Rob kept us alive...even when I could hear his heavy breathing on vent...and muffled curses!
(biting his tongue when I wandered to far, and he wanted to say something Racthoh would make him regret later..oO)
The hardest part I found...were the dang Titans morphing into more annoying titans...grrrrrr.
The dryders were fun to blow up..as were the Margonites.
(I wonder...would light bringers gaze interrupt Mallyx?)
Enough of my ramblings...get in there guys..and kill them all!!
EDIT: Nice bow ass'n Burning Blade..

__________________
PvE Helpful Hint #347: Mallyx don't drop cookies...

Ensign · Aug 08, 2007, 08:59 PM // 20:59

I'll submit a couple other ideas to think about:

Racthoh and Rob's team probably kited the big purple monkey, which is rather effective against melee mobs of all sorts

Racthoh and Rob's team knows how to res dead teammates quickly.

I also wanted to ask how critical the Monk and Ranger were to defeating the mobs before Mallyx, because both of them seem pretty shitty for the big fight itself.

Karlos · Aug 08, 2007, 09:37 PM // 21:37

I think what's missing from this thread, right now, is a little perspective. Racthoh and the other guys did something great in one way, did nothing in another way, and did something wrong in a third way... Allow me to elaborate:

What they did great:
* They killed Mallyx in the room, months and months after the last confirmed people who did it.
* They devised a nice resilient build that can take on the mobs of the citadel head on without moving the priest and so on and they did it fairly successfully.
* They devised a build that is based on non-casters, allowing Paragons, Rits and Rangers to stop moaning and get to Mallyx. They need to expand this perhaps into something they can use elsewhere (for the record, my Rit killed Mallyx before my ele, eons ago, I know, but getting your Rit through DoA is easy and has always been easy).
* Most importantly, they dared to hope and dream and try and not give in to the despair that is Mallyx. For that they are to be commended the most. Congratulations on a job well done.

What they did NOT do:
They did NOT fight the Mallyx everyone else in this thread has been fighting. If they had fought him, there would have been no Recovery, no Flesh of my Flesh, no Life no long casting of any sort or rezzing.

There are two possible explanations to this:
a) ANet fixed him in last Friday's update and said nothing in the update notes. We'll verify this as we try him again this week.
b) They did whatever it is that Curtis Johnson mentioned in the talk page on the wiki that causes Mallyx to not glitch on Summoning Shadows. They either stumbled into it by luck (maybe the type of weapons the casters hold, like melee weapons or something), and maybe they had an insider tip and they're acting like 4th grade children and not sharing.

It is not uncommon for ANet Devs to resort to insider tips to let the general public know about something in the game that people have not found out yet. Back when DoA first came out, we got an insider tip from someone who played with a Dev that if we did more areas in a row we'll get more rewards, which we did and posted the screenshots for and updated the wiki.

Whatever happened in their run (they got lucky or knew what they were doing), they did NOT face the problem everyone has been talking about. So, it's unfair and untrue that they succeeded where others failed, they did not try in the same place that others failed. It's like facing Rotscale who does not use Deathly Swarm every 2 seconds... It's not the same.

What they did wrong:
Is paint this as "We succeed where all the dumb PvE crowd failed." Divert the problem from its true nature into a question of leetness... "Are you guys leet enough to kill him like we did?"

There is (or was up until last week) a problem with Mallyx. Racthoh and his gang were fortunate to not face it and as a result got to kill Mallyx. Know that EVERYONE who has fought Mallyx over these past few weeks believes, beyond any doubt, that if they did not face a glitched Summoning Shadows they would have killed him as well. No question about it.

Some people fail to recognize that the last 3 weeks, everyone who has been trying him has been trying to kill him in the room, aggressively and without glitching him. We had builds that were not reliant on Enchants, relied on rit spirits and direct healing and no hexes or conditions. There was no lack of effort or sincerity on part of the others trying. To fault the others is a direct result of the arrogant tone of Yesitsrob's childish chest thumping and putting down of others.

They were not able to defeat the Mallyx that everyone else was unable to defeat, yet they act like they were (Racthoh and Yesitsrob both did not even know what Summoning Shadows is, they thought Jin interrupted it)

. On principle, I do NOT want to know how they unglitched Summoning Shadows through some gimmick or another. I have no need to kill Mallyx for greens and what not (not even to prove my worth to Yesitsrob). I want him fixed. Maybe he has been fixed, we need to find out.

In the end, congratulations once again and thanks for sharing your build with everyone else. Showing class (instead of saying you're more skilled than everyone else) would have been more befitting, still what youy achieved, what you TRULY achieved, is admirable and worthy of recognition.