Curse

TabascoSauce · Aug 01, 2007, 10:33 PM // 22:33

He has close to 3000 hit points, and he can whack you for 300-450 depending on your armor. Getting close to him, as far as I have seen, does not work no matter what you do. Good idea though.

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

GloryFox · Aug 01, 2007, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Quote:

posted by Snow Bunny
The most successful build I have used against Mallyx as of now consists of 3 Paragons. They have instant cast times...you can't really beat that

Snow Bunny you are the exception to the rule. I'm glad you have the resources to have your 3 paragons pulled through the missions to get to Mallyx. As it is when I'm in DoA and I see Paragons laughed at for LFG it hurts the moral. Yes I know paragons are an amazing class but until public perception is changed I don't see people saying "GLF paragons" in the DoA in the near future.

However if you ever need an extra Paragon for one of the missions please PM me in game.

And I hope its the Paragon that does kill Mallyx just to show the GW community that Paragons don't suck.

Dr Strangelove · Aug 02, 2007, 12:37 AM // 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by TabascoSauce

He has close to 3000 hit points, and he can whack you for 300-450 depending on your armor. Getting close to him, as far as I have seen, does not work no matter what you do. Good idea though.

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

Stack up TNTF, Stand your ground, protector's defense, and figure that he's going to use summon shadows on you anyway, why not get up in his face and try to AoE glitch him?

blue.rellik · Aug 02, 2007, 05:51 AM // 05:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Stack up TNTF, Stand your ground, protector's defense, and figure that he's going to use summon shadows on you anyway, why not get up in his face and try to AoE glitch him?

Don't forget that you need to be able to take out a lot of demons before reaching Mallyx.

hyro yamaguchi · Aug 02, 2007, 07:32 AM // 07:32

Just ritspike him

Shanaeri Rynale · Aug 02, 2007, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Been tried, has'nt worked so far

.

I wonder if the reason why it's not been fixed yet is because AN can't get to him without cheating

undeadgun · Aug 02, 2007, 11:08 AM // 11:08

i say IWAYyyyyyyyyyyyyy

hyro yamaguchi · Aug 02, 2007, 12:49 PM // 12:49

You probably could engineer an 8 man invinci-sin team.

It'd be slow nontheless.

Banish enchantment is a spell.

Shanaeri Rynale · Aug 02, 2007, 04:18 PM // 16:18

An update on the official wiki, Curtis Johnson is the dev who had a big part in designing Mallyx. Karlos is the same Karlos who posted on this very thread

You can read the whole thing here from http://www.wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/T...the_Unyielding

It does appear there is a glitch(1) in the AI for summoning shadows, likely part of modifications to fight the door glitching. (oh the irony) It is actually possible even now to have him not cast summoning shadows at all during the fight in the room, which is how we tested him(2). I'll want to talk to a few people before telling how since it could be (a) a spoiler and (b) influenced by how we fix it (btw, not the same as fixed before). I will say the design was not to require a fully targeted team to be built from level 0 to 20 to beat him(3). But He should (does) shake up conventional strategies and be at least tough enough to earn his citadel. (4)

I am curious what the teams trying would estimate his difficulty if he only cast summon on those outside the room. (that's not a hint just a balance pondering.) (Curtis Johnson 04:37, 2 August 2007 (UTC))

Hmm, Did you browse through that thread and see the amount of builds and attempts actual people tried? It should give you a feel for the problem.

The two methods I am familiar with are Ritualist based and paragon based (since he does little to disrupt either). You can read about the Paragon build in the thread, I have not tried it myself. Here is what we did with the Rit based build:
One Rit with Shelter and Soul Twisting
One secondary Rit with Consume Soul for his spirits
One full time and one part time healer using WoH and the like and not rely on enchats.
The main problem we faced is NOT the use of Summoning Shadows, it the use of Summoning Shadows every 5 seconds. We were all in the room, there were no corpses or any fishy business, we even ran up to him to dissuade him from spamming it. Still, he'd use it every 5-10 seconds and the worst thing is, he forces himself to use it. He hits someonw with Shadow Smash, forcing them to fly away, he feels they are fleeing, so he pulls them back with Summoning Shadows. Just an exercise in frustration. Like one time we had an edict, whomever he starts hittin should stand still and not move at all, and rely on the others for help. That still did not stop Mallyx from using it over and over because each time he'd kick his target away, take a few steps to "chase after him" decide that it's taking too long, and then uses Summoning Shadows.
I can't tell you that we'd kill him for sure if he didn't use it on us if we were all in the room, but I think we'd have a very good shot. --Karlos 04:59, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes i read through most of the thread(5) before I even went to check code so i knew what i was looking for. Constant interruption of the entire team at once is not an intended or fun behavior.(Curtis Johnson 06:20, 2 August 2007 (UTC))

I'm kinda glad it's confirmed he's bugged in a way(1), just shows i'm not going totally mad. I'd also like to thank Curtis for taking the time to explain the thoughts and being so open about the issues. It's appreciated and refreshing

A few points Curtis made are interesting.

1. When they tested him, they glitched him into not doing summoning shadows - They did not fight him in the room, under full power. (2)
2. Anet did not design Mallyx to be invincible or limited to just one team build (3)
3. He should shake up current tank-nuke-heal thinking. (4)
4. Curtis did not read the entire thread. Since the this thread is quite old, I would hope he goes back and read it all, especially the recent posts since the update(5)

On the basis of these point I suggest Anet completley rework Mallyx from the ground up to meet their stated design objectives, as as currently stands it certainly appears to fail in those terms. The community may be missing a trick, but the sheer amount of testing by high quality players certainly indicates a serious flaw somehow.

GloryFox · Aug 02, 2007, 05:52 PM // 17:52

Quote:

posted by Shanaeri Rynale
On the basis of these point I suggest Anet completley rework Mallyx from the ground up to meet their stated design objectives, as as currently stands it certainly appears to fail in those terms. The community may be missing a trick, but the sheer amount of testing by high quality players certainly indicates a serious flaw somehow.

Furthermore from the sounds of it they did not test the build they were using on the 17 groups that appear outside the citadel before they tested Mallyx. It's not the communities fault they can't test all the alternatives to killing Mallyx since many of the alternatives simply can't reach him. For example: I wonder what a team of Beast Masters could do to Mallyx with sustained archer fire? We will never know because of what it takes to get there. I wonder what dedicated Ritual Lord or Motovation/Leadership Paragons, oh wait ANET killed thoes builds just before DoA's and Nightfalls release, nevermind.

Many of us veteran DoA players who used the Glitch early on said that Mallyx cannot be beaten in his Citadel "as is" because of the requirements to get to him. This begs to wonder if ANET ever tested the entire DoA experience with the different classes making sure every class is capable of even getting to him. Rather than just being dragged along. Perhaps if they had allowed 12 man teams as was requested from the get go a 12 man solution to the problem might have worked.

Either way DoA is the biggest failure in diminishing returns, and in terms of what it could have been in the first place coupled with the fact that they had to glitch Mallyx in testing to get him to not cast Summon Shadows at all says everything that needs to be said.

Mallyx should be beatable without the aid of the Sunspear skills as was intended to be. Yes TNTF, and "Save Yourselves" are awesome skills but DoA was out LONG before the Sunspear, and Faction skills came into existence.

The Foundry of Failed Creations says it all.

Thank you for all your hard work Shanaeri Rynale and Snow Bunny and also for those of you who have taken the time to figure out a solution in this matter.

Shanaeri Rynale · Aug 02, 2007, 07:06 PM // 19:06

In the interests of balance, Curtis has posted some clarification to the statements above. So thank you for taking the time to answer

Apparently i need to clarify my statements, as some have misinterpreted me.
o The glitch is in how mallyx uses his shadows, not how we fought him.
o We fought him in the room at his intended full power, it is possible to avoid the current bug that causes him to overcast summoning shadows. .
o When i say i read most of the thread i start from the most recent posts and work backwards, (and also always read the first pages) so i have read everything since the update. This method lets me see what started discussion as well as get most recent feedback and summaries people have come up with. (Curtis Johnson 18:21, 2 August 2007 (UTC))

Now I really want to see the build they used to kill the 17 mobs, then a summoning shadows spamming Mallyx in the room. I guess it helps if you know how the code works

. :P

Since we dont know the builds used, we don't know if multiple professions can manage it. Observation and many thousands of attempts over multiple months would indicate that the workable builds are limited and therefore not meet point (2). Without knowing what works, then this is conjecture based on observation.

Mallyx should be at the same level of difficulty as an Urgoz or a kannaxi. Urgoz required a different way of thinking and tactics as did Kannaxi. It's stated that Mallyx needs to deserve his citadel and i'm fine with it, however story wise Urgoz and Kannaxi had as much influence as Mallyx so it should be on the same level.

I still maintain he needs a major rework seeing as thousands of players have not managed to kill him without a glitch of some kind for over 8 months. The original design and objective was probably sound, it's just the practicalities seem to indicate that some rework is required. Even a simple change like making summoning shadows a spell with a 3 second cast and 45s recharge would be enough for most classes to interupt it, while still maintaining some of the challenge.

Snow Bunny · Aug 02, 2007, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale

In the interests of balance, Curtis has posted some clarification to the statements above. So thank you for taking the time to answer

Apparently i need to clarify my statements, as some have misinterpreted me.
o The glitch is in how mallyx uses his shadows, not how we fought him.
o We fought him in the room at his intended full power, it is possible to avoid the current bug that causes him to overcast summoning shadows. .
o When i say i read most of the thread i start from the most recent posts and work backwards, (and also always read the first pages) so i have read everything since the update. This method lets me see what started discussion as well as get most recent feedback and summaries people have come up with. (Curtis Johnson 18:21, 2 August 2007 (UTC))

Now I really want to see the build they used to kill the 17 mobs, then a summoning shadows spamming Mallyx in the room. I guess it helps if you know how the code works

.

Since we dont know the builds used, we don't know if multiple professions can manage it. Observation and many thousands of attempts over multiple months would indicate that the workable builds are limited and therefore not meet point (2). Without knowing what works, then this is conjecture based on observation.

Mallyx should be at the same level of difficulty as an Urgoz or a kannaxi. Urgoz required a different way of thinking and tactics as did Kannaxi. It's stated that Mallyx needs to deserve his citadel and i'm fine with it, however story wise Urgoz and Kannaxi had as much influence as Mallyx so it should be on the same level.

I still maintain he needs a major rework seeing as thousands of players have not managed to kill him without a glitch of some kind for over 8 months. The original design and objective was probably sound, it's just the practicalities seem to indicate that some rework is required.

Shan, I completely agree.
I have the flu pretty bad, so I haven't gotten a whack at Mallyx lately, but my friend called me last night after a Mallyx run.
He said that Mallyx was non-stop spamming SS, so much so that the Ele spikes were completely off and not even the Para skills could do much.

I'd seriously like to know exactly how

Quote:

it is possible to avoid the current bug that causes him to overcast summoning shadows. .

because he does that, then smashes the whole team.

If it can be avoided, Mallyx would almost be borderline easy, if not doable.

And if you want to go by the lore, sure, Mallyx is waging a war against a god, but still....we've already killed Abaddon, his lieutenant shouldn't really be all that much more. He should simply be a bit harder than the other DoA bosses.

I really badly want to see the Dev team build used against Mallyx. I have a feeling rits/mesmers maybe played a large part, but I don't know how. The boss is bugged in general....his aggro...his abilities...everything. And he takes air spiking like we're wanding him or something.

I just hope that if there's an elite mission in GW:En, they don't make the same mistake.

hyro yamaguchi · Aug 02, 2007, 11:01 PM // 23:01

Either way, praise yourself if you got a drop from him in time.
If he continues to be inbeatable, Mallyx weps will probably become 100k+ or so.

Snow Bunny · Aug 02, 2007, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by hyro yamaguchi

Either way, praise yourself if you got a drop from him in time.
If he continues to be inbeatable, Mallyx weps will probably become 100k+ or so.

I was thinking of that precisely today. I still have a reaver....
Heh...I hope they go up in price

Cherrie · Aug 03, 2007, 09:07 AM // 09:07

Quote:

I did make mention of a fix in my first reply. It's up to you if you want to wait or seek the workaround. My message is simply there is one, it's achievable by any class, therefore your efforts, though not successful, were not without hope. I hope you'll consider my continued response here as some apology for the bug and the wait for the fix. (Curtis Johnson 23:52, 2 August 2007 (UTC))

I'm a pee-pee to this thread for a long time now, and to GW talk as well.
I find this all pretty disrespectful to us players from Dev's side: players have been to DoA and Mallyx many more times than Devs did, with 'regular' characters and 'regular' skills, doing the 'regular' (1) route. They try to find a way to kill Mallyx for months, and a Dev's response is: yes he's glitched, but theres a way to unglich him. Go try more, this isn,t enough.
Honestly, how dare you tread annother human being like that, Mr Curtis... It takes more than ONE HOUR of their life to get to Mallyx and get wiped in FIVE MINUTES. Go figure.

(1) An you haven't even tested this quest as a whole before releasing DoA. It's not a question, it's a fact. Maybe you tested Mallyx killing, maybe even in the Citadel, maybe even without 'dev skills', but not the quest, not the route leading to him.
Proof? Citadel Bug right after release. Despite the fact that all mobs leading to Mallyx were killed and the Priest alive, he wouldn't open the door. The bug stayed in DoA for weeks until players found a way to bead DoA and get to that point.

JONO51 · Aug 03, 2007, 12:11 PM // 12:11

Maybe they could make the 17 previous mobs seperate to the citadel part, ie, a different part of the quest. So you run your cookie cutter build, go back to gate of anguish, then can chage build and be taken through the door to the citadel?

Aviendha Dragonbow · Aug 03, 2007, 03:20 PM // 15:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherrie

I'm a pee-pee to this thread for a long time now, and to GW talk as well.
I find this all pretty disrespectful to us players from Dev's side:

<snip>

I find the reading comprehension abilities on guru to be severly lacking

He acknowledges that there is a bug, and says that a fix is in the works ( i doubt it's at the top of his priority list though...). He goes on to state that the dev team found a way to fight Mallyx that didn't trigger the use of Summoning Shadows, so it is technically possible to beat him if you want to keep trying before the fix is put in. Otherwise just wait for the fix. Its up to you.

There is nothing disrespectful about it. Did you expect him to tell you the exact builds and strategy used?

Miss Puddles · Aug 03, 2007, 03:28 PM // 15:28

i don't want to be babied through an "elite" area. it's supposed to be a challenge to find a balance between fighting the mobs and fighting mallyx all in one go.

zwei2stein · Aug 03, 2007, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aviendha Dragonbow

Did you expect him to tell you the exact builds and strategy used?

If they dont tell us what they really did to him, people can simply assume that they took BAMPH!i instantly spiked him to death, checked if chest really drops what it is supposed to drop and called it as day.

Besides, strategy used to beat him when they designed DoA would be irrelevant after ballances that happened in meantime.

Karlos · Aug 04, 2007, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Some of us are showing the wrong spirit, guys (and girls).

You can't start this discussion from the assumption that the Developers do not care, because they obviously do: a) They are paid to care, b) They are on the wiki talking things out and trying to figure out the best way to solve this. An obvious act of good will.

Even though I have my own reservations about how the encounter was designed and tested, I do not, for one moment, assume that the developers were trying to do anything but create a fun and challnging encounter.

So, let's take the mistrust out of the equation. I trust that they did beat him as they say, including the mobs before him as they say and I don't want them to share the "build" or the "secret" to "glitching" him so he does not use Summoning Shadows. That's just me personally. I feel he is fundamentally flawed (not killed once by the player base as the encounter was designed in over 8 months, 7 hours of playing time to get to him each time the quest resets) and I really wish they would get down to the core of the issue. As I said in the thread, I am tired of finding ways around his glitches.

But let's keep this civil. They care, and they are listening.