Curse

kel77 · Jan 04, 2008, 06:15 PM // 18:15

He made a few suggestions in some posts, but ya, the one posted on page 1 still works great.

Xylia · Jan 04, 2008, 08:39 PM // 20:39

The original still works fine. Obviously you can tailor it to suit your current needs and situation, and there are many posts that give examples of people doing just that.

tmr819 · Jan 06, 2008, 09:15 PM // 21:15

Sad to say, I am lagging way behind most of you guys, since I'm only just beginning some of the Master's Difficulty dungeons in EotN in Normal Mode.

Just want to say, thank you, Sab, for the amazing three-necro-Hero builds. I had been dreading Frostmaw's but finally gave it a try with my elementalist using your Hero builds and really did very well. It was slow going because I quickly learned that lots and lots of critters "pop up" in there, but I eventually got to the end boss with +10 morale on my team and also defeated Frostmaw without too much difficulty.

Your builds also helped me greatly with Rragar's Menagerie.

I do have a question, however. I am having a bear of a time with Shards of Orr. The dungeon is OK to get through (if I use two smiter Heroes plus one Fire Elem. Hero or use three smiter Heroes), but the end boss and his Damned Crewmen decimate me every time.

Perhaps this has been addressed elsewhere, but can this three-necro approach be adjusted for a place like Shards (that lacks exploitable corpses) or am I better off with smiters? I am open to suggestions.

crazybanshee · Jan 07, 2008, 03:20 AM // 03:20

As an ele, I hero/henchied shards of orr twice in hm. I used 2 of sab's heros (the ss and n/rit healer) and instead of the mm I used a smiter. I think it works better if you micromanage smiter heros, but I didn't and he died a lot. I also used mhenlo, talon, devona, and zho. It helps a lot to have essence of celerity (I think that's the one that makes everyone cast faster?) especially for the boss fight. It's doable without, it just takes a lot longer and make sure to bring dp reducing items.

Lykan · Jan 07, 2008, 05:37 AM // 05:37

Are other healers neccesary for this to work?
ie mehnlo and crew, when i H/H i usually roll with Tahlkora +2 and 2 ele hench and 2 monk hench.

arcanemacabre · Jan 07, 2008, 06:23 AM // 06:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lykan

Are other healers neccesary for this to work?
ie mehnlo and crew, when i H/H i usually roll with Tahlkora +2 and 2 ele hench and 2 monk hench.

To be honest, I ran a variation of this earlier today (with my necro as a pseudo-SS, Master of Whispers as the MM, and Razah as the restoRit instead of another necro, and I included only one monk (Tahlkora with Life Sheath), and Hayda with a few protective chants/shouts. The rest of the team was my wife's Dervish (tree), and two ranger heroes (b/p and Magebane). We had no problems vanquishing in Vabbi. It was really a slaughter at its finest, and with no consumables!

Xylia · Jan 07, 2008, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmr819

Perhaps this has been addressed elsewhere, but can this three-necro approach be adjusted for a place like Shards (that lacks exploitable corpses) or am I better off with smiters? I am open to suggestions.

You'll lose some of the synergy because you won't have minions to feed your soul reaping, and you also lose the additional damage from mark of pain and barbs when the minions are triggering them, but the build is definitely still useful. Instead of the minion master, you could bring another curses necro, or blood (with [wiki]Spoil Victor[/wiki]), or an [wiki]Icy Veins[/wiki]/death magic damage build. Or you could simply drop the MM for another hero of your choice, and simply run the 2 synergized heroes.

bifter · Jan 07, 2008, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmr819

I do have a question, however. I am having a bear of a time with Shards of Orr. The dungeon is OK to get through (if I use two smiter Heroes plus one Fire Elem. Hero or use three smiter Heroes), but the end boss and his Damned Crewmen decimate me every time.

Perhaps this has been addressed elsewhere, but can this three-necro approach be adjusted for a place like Shards (that lacks exploitable corpses) or am I better off with smiters? I am open to suggestions.

Better off with smiters, and at the end boss there is a trick to use. The rits spawn where you killed the last archer, so if you aim to kill the last archer and then lure fendi a couple of aggro bubbles away before whaling on him, you won't even see the rits. You still have to deal with archers when they respawn, but they are manageable. I did this as ele ursan with 3 smiter heroes using ray of judgment and it was a walk in the park. I think I might have had one party wipe at Fendi, and brought him down in 3 or 4 incarnations.

tmr819 · Jan 08, 2008, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xylia

You'll lose some of the synergy because you won't have minions to feed your soul reaping, and you also lose the additional damage from mark of pain and barbs when the minions are triggering them, but the build is definitely still useful. Instead of the minion master, you could bring another curses necro, or blood (with [wiki]Spoil Victor[/wiki]), or an [wiki]Icy Veins[/wiki]/death magic damage build. Or you could simply drop the MM for another hero of your choice, and simply run the 2 synergized heroes.

Thanks. This sounds like good advice. I'll check into capping [skill]Icy Veins[/skill].

Quote:

Originally Posted by bifter

Better off with smiters, and at the end boss there is a trick to use. The rits spawn where you killed the last archer, so if you aim to kill the last archer and then lure fendi a couple of aggro bubbles away before whaling on him, you won't even see the rits. You still have to deal with archers when they respawn, but they are manageable. I did this as ele ursan with 3 smiter heroes using ray of judgment and it was a walk in the park. I think I might have had one party wipe at Fendi, and brought him down in 3 or 4 incarnations.

Really? I did not know this, but it makes sense. I could not for the life of me figure out why the rits would spawn all over the place -- sometimes way back, sometimes right on top of my team. This is really good to know. Thank you for the information and advice.

It seems to me a weakness of the 3-necro build is the lack of strong interrupts, or am I missing something here? Maybe the sheer volume of minions negates the need for interrupts? In any case, for strong bosses and/or caster groups, I have never found Zho to be enough. Hence, I often drop the curses necro in favor of a BHA ranger or interrupting tank Hero to supplement Zho.

bifter · Jan 08, 2008, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Yeah, the 3 necro build can be weak in areas with with mobs that are strong in healing and corpse exploitation (eg summit mobs in Vloxen and Slavers' Exile). The SS is probably more than 50% of your team damage in most areas though, as well as a big chunk of damage mitigation (via weakness), so you should think carefully before replacing him (esp. in Slavers, where the summit are weak on hex removal). I'd probably try to get by with 2 (hench; monk) healers before taking the SS out.

mcsumo · Jan 08, 2008, 04:15 PM // 16:15

I have always thought the strength of this build is in the synergy. The minions cause lots of damage when they die and through barbs/mark of pain, they also fuel the huge energy requirements of the SS and the N/Rit healer. The SS also carries barbs and the reason for using a N/Rt is the fact that you have minions to keep the enrtgy flowing.

I think if you replace any part of it you are just as well to look at replacing all of it. SS is always good obviously, but you better make sure you have decent e management and a less high energy skillbar, if there is no MM. Likewise taking a Rit healer (or a monk obv) as opposed to a N/Rt makes sense then.

This build is a hero team build, with all 3 parts needed for full effect.

Basically if there aren't enough corpses don't use it. And in undead heavy areas a smiter team is always the way to go.

Faer · Jan 08, 2008, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Quick note:

Dark Fury is an amazing replacement for either Aegis or Protective Spirit on the MM if you are playing a class that depends on adrenaline, or have some of said folks tagging along. The loss of either (or both, if your Monks have good bars

) of the protection spells is fairly negligible in the long run, but the extra adrenaline can supply your party with all sorts of advantages (better party support for Paragons, higher DPS for Warriors, etcetera).

Mark Nevermiss · Jan 08, 2008, 06:02 PM // 18:02

I usually put Aegis and Extinguish on the MM.

Xylia · Jan 08, 2008, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faer

Quick note:

Dark Fury is an amazing replacement for either Aegis or Protective Spirit on the MM if you are playing a class that depends on adrenaline, or have some of said folks tagging along. The loss of either (or both, if your Monks have good bars

) of the protection spells is fairly negligible in the long run, but the extra adrenaline can supply your party with all sorts of advantages (better party support for Paragons, higher DPS for Warriors, etcetera).

If you're running two monks, you aren't taking full advantage of this build, unless one of them is smiting. The restoration N/Rt is a healer slot, and should be treated as such. There are very few areas where having 3 healers is preferable to having 2 healers and another damage class.

Faer · Jan 09, 2008, 10:28 PM // 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xylia

If you're running two monks, you aren't taking full advantage of this build

In the context I was using, the plural of "Monk" was referring to different individuals at different times, rather than multiple Monks in the party at the same time.

Give me a Dragon Slash over an extra WoH any day.

Yarghetaus · Jan 10, 2008, 09:54 AM // 09:54

I usually run Aegis and Protective Spirit on the MM, and Pure was Li Ming on the Curse necro.

Shadow Kurd · Jan 13, 2008, 09:53 PM // 21:53

So what henchie's should i combine with this build?

Jagged · Jan 14, 2008, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Depends, I generally take the 2 monks (one prot, one healer). I know its probably overkill and probably just need Menhlo.

For my other 2. I almost always take Herta (Earth). If I need interrupts, i'll take Illusion. For more damage i'll take Cynn (fire). With these builds, I don't think the Blood hench is needed.

Xylia · Jan 14, 2008, 09:47 PM // 21:47

I normally bring Mehnlo (healer) and Herta (wards + earth spells) - with the N/Rt healer this is more than enough healing/protection in most cases. Most of the time I bring Aidan (archer, with barrage) and Devona (fighter), but that's just personal preference. I wouldn't bring the blood hench or the prot hench with this build in most cases.

Cherng Butter · Jan 14, 2008, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faer

In the context I was using, the plural of "Monk" was referring to different individuals at different times, rather than multiple Monks in the party at the same time.

Give me a Dragon Slash over an extra WoH any day.

Does this apply to HM as well? I'd be a little iffy taking only the N/Rt + Mhenlo to Frostmaw's HM...though I can see how more damage would be useful for the lesser HM dungeons like Darkrime?