Curse

blue.rellik · Oct 15, 2007, 04:23 AM // 04:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarzanboy

The same case can be made for Spoil Victor, except that SV has that annoying caveat that requires they target something with less HP than their own.

Cheers,
TB

Yeah duh, my point was why necro skills are taken instead of elementalist skills

Avatar Exico · Oct 15, 2007, 06:17 AM // 06:17

is it necessary to have 12 Death can you have 16 Death 10 Prot, 10 Soul on the MM?

RTSFirebat · Oct 15, 2007, 06:32 AM // 06:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by thunderai

Does anyone have a good Ranger build that will work well with this set up. For whatever reason I am not seeing the 'great' results from this team build as everyone else. Add to that a good set up for the remaining four slots?

Hey it maybe just me but I run good old Barrage + Conjure Flame with the the 3 necros along with

- Cynn (Fire)
- Mhenlo (Healer)
- Devona (Hammer)
- Talon (Sword)

I put Mark of Pain on the SS necro for Devona and Talon and I just sit back with all the softies and spam away with Barrage.

Works fine in NM, is a bit tricker in HM were the mobs sometimes break aggro and run for the backline.

Novalon · Oct 15, 2007, 01:48 PM // 13:48

Just as a small anecdote, I used this build for vanquishing in HM to farm reputation over the weekend, and it's nothing short of amazing.

My only issue was in Varajar Fells, with the Ice Imps, because the heroes like to bunch up, and that can lead to a quick death. The best advice I can give is to flag the heroes as best you can when dealing with any kind of AoE (I have a feeling the same can be said of any Nightfallen area as well), and things should be fine.

Barring that, when the MM isn't a viable option, consider a second SS, possibly an SV if you're going to be dealing with bosses, or perhaps some kind of degen.

Have fun being anti-social!

thunderai · Oct 15, 2007, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

Hey it maybe just me but I run good old Barrage + Conjure Flame with the the 3 necros along with

- Cynn (Fire)
- Mhenlo (Healer)
- Devona (Hammer)
- Talon (Sword)

I put Mark of Pain on the SS necro for Devona and Talon and I just sit back with all the softies and spam away with Barrage.

Works fine in NM, is a bit tricker in HM were the mobs sometimes break aggro and run for the backline.

I vanquished old ascoln with a punishing shot+conjure flame+keeldel arrows build. (with a +25% on charr). It seemed to work really well, in fact we took on what must have been 10 grawl and we had no problems.

fenix · Oct 16, 2007, 03:38 AM // 03:38

I hadn't run this build since myself and friends tore apart HA with it during the 6v6 days. I usually don't impress easily, but this build is quite good. I know it was good in HA, but it is even better in PvE (in terms of Defense and Offense capabilities), which is a good thing. About time someone posted up a build that is almost idiot proof.

I know this build will be replacing my normal Para/Para/Nec combo in some missions.

Skuld · Oct 16, 2007, 07:01 AM // 07:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

No I mean Barrage + Conjure Flame.

Fire damage owns Charr. O wait

KIDGOOCH · Oct 16, 2007, 06:35 PM // 18:35

I used this (well slightly modified) for Heart of the Shiverpeaks with great success, but I was wondering... Is there any real benefit to using the N/Rt as opposed to a Rt/? Or is it for the soul reaping energy regen?

sussuara · Oct 16, 2007, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nighthawkeye

Sab, thanks for posting the build.

Now that burning question, "Can a Sin H/H Duncan?", can be answered. Yes.

It looks like the prevailing wisdom for team builds goes something like: 1 Ursan tank, 2 eles - an SH and an SF, 2 Necs - a SS and a SV, one or both with SoS,
a couple of SplinterBarragers and a wild card slot, maybe as Mes with Empathy+Backfire.

Probably a great team build if you have a W primary char.

But Sins aren't tanks. Can be close, with tons of Prot, but just not the same skill set design.

I fiddled around with lots of variations. Tried working in a full Prot Monk and a n SF nuker with a curses nec, and taking Cynn instead of Zho. Stuff like that. Nothing trying to approach that W tank team build was happening because the Sin just can't tank, at least and have enough firepower slots left after adding enough healing/Prot support.

But what finally worked was just two small tweaks to the build --having the MM tank the corners with a wall of fast created bones, and take Prot rather than the Rit res FoMF (and put all the att points you would use for the Rit seconday in the Mo Prot), and drop the Death pact sig on the curses nec for SoS, taking advantage of the already high att for soul reaping you're putting in to use the SoLS.

That left a big job on res to the healer N/rit (and occasionally Mhenlo and Lina to res him - mainly when swapping out spirits and dealing with the N/A toucher pop-ups around Duncan)-and he was up to it.

Decent sticks for all necs helps, particularly anything with 20/20 HCT HSR and +energy is a bonus (particularly for the curses nec and the blood nec).

The only thing the Sin needed different from what I've normally used (an empty palm build) plus GWEN's PainInverter are Gaze, Frozen Soil, and Swap.
And I took a longbow for pulling - though no bow skill.

Here are a few pics, and yea, it was long and tedious to get there, but after the first two crossing mobs, pretty smooth sailing to Duncan's. Then just a process of moving the spirits out of the way to avoid the nuisance factor (and clearing their pesky N/A toucher pop-up friends), camping the Curse nec in the corner with nothing on but SS and SoS, having the MM turn every thing off but Prot and spam the curse with it while he spammed Duncan with SS (which he will do on his own) and SoS (yea, I had to stroll up to Duncan while he was engaged with the Curses nec and just stand next to him until he finally got annoyed with me and that irritating PainInverter and then just lay dead there so the curse nec could start using SoS in addition to SS). Once everyone was set in place and got into rhythm, took Duncan down in about 15 to 20 minutes, manually controlling SoS and Prot (about 4or5 to 1) casts from my lofty position face down in the dirt by Dunc.

It did take some fiddling with positioning, putting the curse nec just where he needed to be to keep him from running up and down the stairs like an idiot and getting killed about 10 times on the landing at the top of the stairs, and putting the MM close enough to keep the curse nec Proted. The healing N/Rit supported nearby and Mhenlo and Lina even pitched in occasionally to support the MM and the healer necs.

Altogether, it wasn't pretty, or fast, but sometimes victory is just victory and not glorious.

Sab's build stikes again. Thanks Sab.

NH

hey, could you post your build ? its kinda small cant see it lol

i'm having a bad time with my sin trying this dungeon, i did the first two bosses Justicar and the other one, didnt try the other ones yet but since i was with 60% DP in the first dungeon i left it there to read about it and get some tips.

and thnks in advance, i did all dungeons with my sin (H/H) but this one :/

Nighthawkeye · Oct 17, 2007, 06:13 AM // 06:13

Sussaura, here you go, FWIW.

Here is the template:
[OwJTg1u6VSrZ7hh5gRu0i76oODA]

Here is a link to a page where I converted the template code at PVX Wiki
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/?title=Special%3APvXDecode&wpBuild=OwJTg1u6VSrZ7hh 5gRu0i76oODA&wpName=SinSlaverBld&Go=

You can play around with the att pt distribution. Depends on what + atts you have on your armor.

Depending on the group, you may want to lead with PI, and it casts at a pretty good distance, or Dancing Dags, then emptypalm and then the offhand and DB. The beauty is no energy for FF or DB, each of which are pretty fast to hit, esp DB, which is instant. If all goes well, you can get two cycles of DD, FF and DB in before Empty needs a recharge. If all goes well, you have plenty of e left for a pop of Gaze or another of PI to really put the hurt on. Downside, if the lead, Dancing, gets interrupted, you have to wait for it to recharge before you can get to your offhand and dual, which aint fun when you're up close and personal. Then about your only hope, particularly if you get unlucky and have the lead interrupted 2x in a row, is to kite out, or you can hit the gankers with Gaze and hope your monks and healer N/Rit are on the case. Lot of moving in and out of targets is the basic tactic, trying not to get boxed in while you're low on e. But if you've come this far, you know all that already. Without any Shadow skills, it really is an all hit, all the time build. And just try not to out run your punt coverage. It gets lonely out there with all your H/H flagged back at the 20. And of course, drop Soil before you pull a bunch of baddies and keep an eye on it. Re-dropping is a good time to withdraw from the fray and re-charge.

Anyway, GL with Duncan.

NH

RTSFirebat · Oct 17, 2007, 09:00 AM // 09:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skuld

Fire damage owns Charr. O wait

Switches to Charr slaying bow and Conjure Ice + Barrage.

Your point being?

sussuara · Oct 17, 2007, 01:03 PM // 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nighthawkeye

Sussaura, here you go, FWIW.

Here is the template:
[OwJTg1u6VSrZ7hh5gRu0i76oODA]

Here is a link to a page where I converted the template code at PVX Wiki
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/?title=Special%3APvXDecode&wpBuild=OwJTg1u6VSrZ7hh 5gRu0i76oODA&wpName=SinSlaverBld&Go=

You can play around with the att pt distribution. Depends on what + atts you have on your armor.

Depending on the group, you may want to lead with PI, and it casts at a pretty good distance, or Dancing Dags, then emptypalm and then the offhand and DB. The beauty is no energy for FF or DB, each of which are pretty fast to hit, esp DB, which is instant. If all goes well, you can get two cycles of DD, FF and DB in before Empty needs a recharge. If all goes well, you have plenty of e left for a pop of Gaze or another of PI to really put the hurt on. Downside, if the lead, Dancing, gets interrupted, you have to wait for it to recharge before you can get to your offhand and dual, which aint fun when you're up close and personal. Then about your only hope, particularly if you get unlucky and have the lead interrupted 2x in a row, is to kite out, or you can hit the gankers with Gaze and hope your monks and healer N/Rit are on the case. Lot of moving in and out of targets is the basic tactic, trying not to get boxed in while you're low on e. But if you've come this far, you know all that already. Without any Shadow skills, it really is an all hit, all the time build. And just try not to out run your punt coverage. It gets lonely out there with all your H/H flagged back at the 20. And of course, drop Soil before you pull a bunch of baddies and keep an eye on it. Re-dropping is a good time to withdraw from the fray and re-charge.

Anyway, GL with Duncan.

NH

Thanks a lot, i did some changes yesterday and i made the 2 others bosses, now just Duncan left gonna try it, thanks again

Edit: Just Killed duncan, thanks for the help, now i gotta decide what hero gets the Armor lol
thanks <3

Snograt · Oct 17, 2007, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Does Gaze still work on things outside of Elona/Torment then? I thought they fixed that...

Nadia Roark · Oct 18, 2007, 03:51 AM // 03:51

As a HA veteran who despised this build when it was meta (and still does despise the Spirit abuse that is ruining HA as we speak), running this left something of a bad taste in my mouth but the results are keeping me mollified so far.

It's a decent build; I've taken to running Divert Hexes alongside it, since the backline does not have any hex removal. The preponderance of heals and the spirit battery provided for my necros lets me run all prot with almost no healing (what'd be the point of running Gift now?), which has freed up a couple skill slots for Ebon Battle Standard of Wisdom and a rez/LoD for dungeons. Some of you may have seen me rave about EBSW elsewhere, but I really think it goes with this build since it's not like my necromancers aren't going to be able to cast. Traditionally the drawback to fast recharges has been the energy demand, but with that requirement alleviated I can keep EBSW up and let my necs spam like crazy.

I've had good success with this build, but (and I don't want this to be taken as a dig at Sab!) the outpouring of praise for it has got me wondering what some of you guys were running in PvE before this. The build has been good to me so far, but I've not found it to be quite as invincible as the testimony here had led me to believe. It may have more to do with the circumstances under which I'm using it; I'll have to give it some more time and find out. Still, it's fun to run and has gotten me a bit more interested in PvE again. Now I'm going back to all those places I couldn't beat before because I ran a half-assed build or was too lazy to heal when I should have. I hate backlining in PvE, so I'm glad this build can do most of the legwork for me, while still working towards titles on my monk.

Avatar Exico · Oct 18, 2007, 04:18 AM // 04:18

I tryed the build and I pleased with the results it came out. my team never went below 50% of health. I must say it has awsome Healing, Defense, dmg going i see like 6 Minions with Deadly Nova and all of sudden i foe and it dead with -8 degan from Bleeding and Posion. I was thinking maybe a Tainted MM. I dont know it was idea.

MrGuildBoi · Oct 18, 2007, 05:04 AM // 05:04

I went to Vizunah, I saw a person with your exact builds. I just hated when he over-summoned my higher level Life 2 seconds after I created mine -.- Nice builds though, got me masters in it.

Free Wind · Oct 18, 2007, 06:26 AM // 06:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nadia Roark

I've had good success with this build, but (and I don't want this to be taken as a dig at Sab!) the outpouring of praise for it has got me wondering what some of you guys were running in PvE before this.

It was probably the only time when I ever ran the Sab's build, it is very good but as many people mentioned it has its own weak sides. Before and after that my team build almost always is composed of 2 monks, myself (warrior), Virulence or Discord MM necro and the rest is usually 4 mesmers or 3 mes + SS or 2 mes + 2 eles or 2 mes, SS and a smiter.

Everyone keeps on saying that mesmers are not for PvE but my experience shows that mesmer heroes do way better then ele heroes (note, I am not comparing people here).

Domination + fast casting is too good to be neglected, especially taking into account that heroes 'know' much more about the current battle then we do - they 'know' how much energy a foe has, they 'know' exactly which hex or condition on this or that foe, they 'know' who is casting what and who those foes are targeting at the moment.

3 heroes will never place one and the same hex on the same foe, neither will they attempt to interrupt a spell that is being cast all together simultaneously; they will never re-apply a hex before it has expired. They will definitely use Shatter Enchantment if it's ready to be cast the very second a foe gets enchanted.

Elementalists, Paragons and Warrior heroes will not benefit as much of this battle awareness as mesmer or necro heroes will

With all these benefits it's a crime not to use it.

bungusmaximus · Oct 18, 2007, 07:18 AM // 07:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nadia Roark

I've had good success with this build, but (and I don't want this to be taken as a dig at Sab!) the outpouring of praise for it has got me wondering what some of you guys were running in PvE before this.

Before this I ran pretty nice builds as well, the only problem was monks burning through their energy all the time so I simply HAD to take [wiki]blood ritual[/wiki].

I do a lot of HM farming of elite missions with a guildie of mine as well, that's also places where 'monks' with infinite energy come in very handy.

I steal lots of nice ideas from guru because outfitting heroes that have professions I hardly play sometimes poses problems. The more people the more good ideas.

Sheriff · Oct 18, 2007, 08:36 AM // 08:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Wind

It was probably the only time when I ever ran the Sab's build, it is very good but as many people mentioned it has its own weak sides. Before and after that my team build almost always is composed of 2 monks, myself (warrior), Virulence or Discord MM necro and the rest is usually 4 mesmers or 3 mes + SS or 2 mes + 2 eles or 2 mes, SS and a smiter.

This discussion is about H+H builds, so how can you mention a party with a MM and 4 mesmers or 3 mesmers + SS ?

Of course with another human, it's likely you'll be able to find a 6 hero synergy that is possibly better than Sab's build in specific areas - take the recently given example of 5 paras + orders necro + 2 rest Rts. However, for 3 heroes parties (or 3 heroes + 2-4 henchmen), Sab's build is pretty effective in most areas, NM or HM.

Only after seeing Sab's builds did I realize the versatily of Soul Reaping with any other secondary class. For example, I got to rank 9 delver by doing Lair of the Snowmen HM over and over, my heroes being Sab's WoR N/Rt and two N/E running SF and other high-energy casting fire spells. Who needs fire attunement?

Free Wind · Oct 18, 2007, 09:11 AM // 09:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheriff

This discussion is about H+H builds, so how can you mention a party with a MM and 4 mesmers or 3 mesmers + SS ?

Don't forget, please, that it was me who created this thread and it was me who drew people's attention (including you) to Sab's post in Heroes and AI forum section. And in my post here it was Hero + Human team. Neither Sab nor me in our threads never mentioned henchmen, the point was the hero synergy