Curse

Big_Iron · Sep 27, 2007, 01:06 PM // 13:06

I did DDF with this build and breezed through. Where many PuGs have failed, I coasted. Thanks Sab!

Chthon · Sep 27, 2007, 02:45 PM // 14:45

If this was the sort of "soul reaping abuse" that "necessitated" the SR nerf, I can't help but be even more pissed about it.

These builds aren't bad, but they aren't exactly fantastic or overpowered either.

Enticed by the claims of "me and my friend did Thommis in 17 min with these heroes," I decided to do Justicar Thommis as a test run, and I found:

The MB is too fragile. Despite the N/Rt healer, his own heals, myself as a heal monk, and Lina on prot, he consistently drew aggro and died. And when he died, the whole offense collapsed, forcing us to retreat. At least for 8-man teams, I'd probably take all the heal off him, set him as a pure MB, and make sure he's got Taste of Death.
The healer has serious AI issues, some of which can be fixed with microing, and some of which can't:
- Seems she won't use SoLS if set to "avoid combat" and tries to wand and tank a la Alesia and generally draws aggro if set to "defend."
- Casts Life randomly while traveling, leaving it recharging when we actually hit a battle.
- Casts ashpot frequently (on recharge?) and holds it for maximum length without regard to what it does to her energy.
- Seems to prioritize straight heals over weapons.
- The old %-healing AI problem -- overheals a lot b/c it use straight heals while target's health is still too high. Especially bad since the the situations where it's overhealing with the straight heals would be perfect for using the weapons.

To reiterate: These builds aren't bad. In fact, they're good. They just aren't the be-all-end-all of PvE builds a lot of people seem to think they are.

glountz · Sep 27, 2007, 04:31 PM // 16:31

What's good about these builds is that you can breeze through normal mode by C-spacing.
What's wrong is that you'll have real trouble as soon as you'll try some HM areas /endgame areas. No hex removal, no prot, means HM is undoable without a solid prot monk.
Additionnaly this build is essentially based on SR triggering through minions which can be rare in some areas and quite fragile caused wiped easily in HM.
And when you take this into the equation you actually need less these half healers and more painful damagers and efficient protters. If minions are disintegrated more thant they are created, than the whole build fail.

Take Sab's build for normal mode and C-Space.

You'll have to think more for some HM areas (especially the ones lacking corpses).

Dr Strangelove · Sep 27, 2007, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

If this was the sort of "soul reaping abuse" that "necessitated" the SR nerf, I can't help but be even more pissed about it.

This is a 3 man, heavily nerfed version of the original jagged bones build. Needless to say, it's still pretty good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Enticed by the claims of "me and my friend did Thommis in 17 min with these heroes," I decided to do Justicar Thommis as a test run, and I found:

The MB is too fragile. Despite the N/Rt healer, his own heals, myself as a heal monk, and Lina on prot, he consistently drew aggro and died. And when he died, the whole offense collapsed, forcing us to retreat. At least for 8-man teams, I'd probably take all the heal off him, set him as a pure MB, and make sure he's got Taste of Death.
The healer has serious AI issues, some of which can be fixed with microing, and some of which can't:
- Seems she won't use SoLS if set to "avoid combat" and tries to wand and tank a la Alesia and generally draws aggro if set to "defend."
- Casts Life randomly while traveling, leaving it recharging when we actually hit a battle.
- Casts ashpot frequently (on recharge?) and holds it for maximum length without regard to what it does to her energy.
- Seems to prioritize straight heals over weapons.
- The old %-healing AI problem -- overheals a lot b/c it use straight heals while target's health is still too high. Especially bad since the the situations where it's overhealing with the straight heals would be perfect for using the weapons.

As for the rest, it's generally ok if the necros draw aggro. The idea is that with the piles of healing, it's really hard to die to anything except massive AoE. I believe the original jaggedbonesway included a spirit spammer, which really helps out with that, although it no longer has the awesome synergy with the necros.

The problems with rit skills are kinda a constant. The AI on rit skills is unbelievably bad, they don't seem to understand any of the triggers or multiple uses of skills. Same deal with assassin AI, it can't do anything but lead->offhand->dual.

bungusmaximus · Sep 28, 2007, 06:32 AM // 06:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

You'll have to think more for some HM areas

Hmm I could get around that pretty easily with this build, but I just had to stick the hex remove on other characters. Did Tomb of Primeval Kings in hard mode with the zaishen hench, 2 N/rt healers, and Olias as bomber. I gave Olias and myself a hex remove skill and stuff went smoothly.

However, it's true that it doesn't work anywhere, but that's only a good thing ImO, there's no build at all that works flawlessly everywhere.

RTSFirebat · Sep 28, 2007, 01:57 PM // 13:57

Well gave this a go in Fort Ranik HM, 4 man mission which I've had nothing but bad luck with. While there was a couple of deaths my 3 hench necros with me doing Flaming Arrow + interrupts handled the mission without any issues at all.

Good build

Mickey · Sep 28, 2007, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

Well gave this a go in Fort Ranik HM, 4 man mission which I've had nothing but bad luck with. While there was a couple of deaths my 3 hench necros with me doing Flaming Arrow + interrupts handled the mission without any issues at all.

Good build

Flaming Arrow? Do you mean Burning Arrow?

fujin · Sep 28, 2007, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Love the build, I've only had the MM die once which was in the beginning where he had no minions

kade · Sep 28, 2007, 07:41 PM // 19:41

ok thanks for the info, gonna give this another shot

Squishy ftw · Sep 28, 2007, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

What's good about these builds is that you can breeze through normal mode by C-spacing.

Erm, isnt it like that with pretty much every somewhat decent party setup ?

Abbel Calima · Oct 03, 2007, 08:17 AM // 08:17

Tried Glint's Challenge with this build, with succes!

RTSFirebat · Oct 03, 2007, 08:49 AM // 08:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mickey

Flaming Arrow? Do you mean Burning Arrow?

No I mean Barrage + Conjure Flame.

wonderwyrm · Oct 04, 2007, 01:20 PM // 13:20

did glints challenge as well with this build, got a little harry on wave 4, no minions, but all the destroyers bunched in 1 part + derv + curse encro, was over pretty quick heh

nec trio works like a charm

Hengis · Oct 04, 2007, 01:25 PM // 13:25

Great builds!

I have equiped all of my Heros with Brotherhood armour now using these builds, me playing splinter/barrage/pain-inverter, both ele hench and both monk hench.

Waiting for the nerf now...

bungusmaximus · Oct 04, 2007, 01:46 PM // 13:46

What makes you think they will nerf this? it's just a very good build that's all, but not invincible. In some areas you still get creamed if you don't tweak a little by yourself.

Sab · Oct 04, 2007, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Because the devs love nerfing builds for no reason. -.o

In all seriousness though, the only things they might touch are Soul Reaping and Resto heals, and that'd be for PvP reasons. It doesn't really matter though, you'd be able to work around that with a few skill changes.

lakatz · Oct 04, 2007, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Wind

... 14 minutes to kill the boss

Quote:

...9 min first boss in slaver's...

Do I hear 8? 8 min 8 min 8 min... anyone? I have 9 min... do I hear 8?

Curse You · Oct 04, 2007, 10:24 PM // 22:24

I used this build for Justiciar Thommis and was able to clear it relatively easily. I went as the SS and took a BHA ranger. Would have been faster if I hadn't got stuck in an almost never ending fight with some Dwarfs that kept resurrecting one another.

Molock · Oct 04, 2007, 10:57 PM // 22:57

You play way too much -_-

Anyway, ya looks like a decent build XD

MYSTERYouse · Oct 09, 2007, 12:48 PM // 12:48

First, I would like to thank Sab for this build. I dont know most of the proffesions, so I am mostly searching for builds on forums which suits my current needs.

3xN/Rt was/is my current favorite herobuild which I use while doing my vanquishing. I did most of the 4man missions with this party setup without any major problems (btw. my profession Ele). You can do nearly everything with this setup, I find it very helpfull for vanquishing (Canthan Jade Sea, Echovald Forrest especially), 3 days ago I vanquished even Mineral Springs while Titan quest was active (lvl. 30 titans ... yay!)

Only problem I faced till now are areas packed with lot of Ice Imps where I am without any real tank which would catch initial agro for me (S. Shiverpeaks). Areas without corpses are another issue, where I swap MM for another Curse necro as suggested. Even Maguuma Jungle with minion stealing is becoming very funny when you equip your MM with Verratas Gaze (or Aura which I use in critical situation manually)

This build canbe very helpfull for players which are doing things on their own or dont find help in their Guilds/Allys or simply want to skip the party/build spam and want to go straight into action.

There is no best herobuild in GW, but this one is very close to it in my eyes.
One more time, thx Sab!