Curse

Astramancer · Feb 24, 2010, 04:26 AM // 04:26

Does Pain Inverter go into a feedback loop, instantly killing the person who cast it the moment either take damage? i.e. You cast pain inverter on Duncan and deal 60 damage, you take 60 damage from Duncan's defense. He takes 60 damage from pain inverter, and he does 60 damage with Duncan's Defense, repeat until you are dead.

If so, would that make piling enchants on someone and using symbiosis to make that someone have 1000+ hit points and then using them as a 'bomb' with Pain Inverter viable? You could bomb him for 1000+ damage every 20 seconds (keep everyone outside of spell range, rebirth the sacrificial lamb, reapply enchants, pain invert recharges and bomb him again)

Alternately, Flat and Longbows have an attack range that's longer than spell range, so couldn't you just load up a ranger hero with Apply Poison and Hunter's shot, set them up outside of spell range (since he doesn't move), and go take a nap/read a novel while degen (slowly) kills Ducan and your healers only have to worry about healing the ranger from puny amounts of retributive damage (everyone knows rangers can't DPS with a bow)?

I've killed Duncan once (broadhead FTW!), and I'm wondering if either technique would work to make him go down faster/easier.

Zodiac Meteor · Feb 24, 2010, 04:58 AM // 04:58

The um, sacrifice can use Spirit Bond to heal from the damage, making pain inverter a little longer.

This is interesting as perma sliver might not work anymore and have to look for alternatives.

Warrior Lisa · Feb 24, 2010, 04:59 AM // 04:59

Last week me and my guild used an hp, and defense friendly team build to tackle Duncan with, we had 4 rangers, 3 Paras, 1 war for duncan aggro, however PI does 160 damage back when you use it, and when if ever he hit a multiple target my war dropped in seconds. It had the same effect in NM as well. I am going to say, no its not going to work very well.

Alternative Way: We went with a full group or SY kurzick, and Luxon, paraway and had no problem, taking 12 damage from spirt rift. No harmful effects from spirits either.

Astramancer · Feb 24, 2010, 05:27 AM // 05:27

It sounds like Pain Inverter doesn't feedback, then.

And I hadn't even thought of using spirit bond.

New Plan! Get to duncan with a monk with 12 protection, who has Life Barrier as their elite, and Life Attunement and Spirit Bond on their bar.

Bond the Sacrificial Lamb with Life Barrier and Life Attunement, and then cast Spirit Bond.

The Lamb casts Pain Inverter and attacks (or waits for Duncan to attack, either way is good).

PI does 80 damage to Duncan, Duncan does 160 * .56 (-44% damage)= 89.6 damage (let's call it 90). That's well above the threshold for Spirit Bond, so it heals the Lamb 88 * 1.43 (+43% healing) = 125.84.

=========

As long as you get the Lamb out of there before Spirit Bond wears off, you ought to be able to keep it going indefinitely, doing really good damage against Duncan for the 5 or seconds you'll be able to keep PI going on him. If you have someone other than the bonder casting Spirit Bond, you can have the bonder keep it up on 2 or more people, making the takedown go that much faster. Maybe even have the bonded be a rit who has a bunch of pre-cast spirits, and PI/summon spirits. Duncan's AoE attacks will just deal absurd amounts of damage to himself while the caster of PI gets healed.

Chthon · Feb 24, 2010, 07:00 AM // 07:00

Stupid Duncan tricks:

He doesn't aggro to longbow/flatbow range. A single spirit rit can kill him simply by laying spirits close enough to hit him but far enough he won't attack them. (Clear the right side of the platform and swap out the spirits to make room.) Additionally, Vampirism and Bloodsong do life steal, so his defense won't work on them.

I haven't tried it, but I suspect the same trick would work with a longbow/flatbow and some bow attacks. You'd need healing though.

Olle · Feb 24, 2010, 07:12 AM // 07:12

or just go discordway
take an real person with Swap, and then depending on how good you are with pulling
a necro or two with Signet of sorrorws.
one person dies infront of him, and hero/person starts to SoS him
takes a bit of time, but works great!

Luminarus · Feb 24, 2010, 07:52 AM // 07:52

Does the corner trick with Spoil Victor, and SoS with the suicider still work?

Gill Halendt · Feb 24, 2010, 09:56 AM // 09:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luminarus

Does the corner trick with Spoil Victor, and SoS with the suicider still work?

Guess it does. Last time I went there I suicided at his feet but...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Stupid Duncan tricks:

He doesn't aggro to longbow/flatbow range. A single spirit rit can kill him simply by laying spirits close enough to hit him but far enough he won't attack them. (Clear the right side of the platform and swap out the spirits to make room.) Additionally, Vampirism and Bloodsong do life steal, so his defense won't work on them.

... we soon realized my sacrifice was pretty much vain, since the Ritualist with us took care of him alone...

Sethellington · Feb 24, 2010, 10:39 AM // 10:39

I did him H/H a little while ago to finish NM book, and I (nec) ordered a hero to day at his feet, then put on some 55 gear and had a hero prot spirit me and then i just spammed SoS on him. Took ages but worked

makafri · Feb 24, 2010, 05:11 PM // 17:11

my guild and I made duncan all the time in hm... to kill duncan we only need and SS with pain inverter and a monk with protective spirit and some healing that keep healing him until the ss kill duncan

you know all that trick with swap, to remove the spirits and all... it works everytime... we also have used a domination mesmer with PI... I guess anything that can deal a good amout of damage to duncan will work

ac1inferno · Feb 24, 2010, 05:43 PM // 17:43

There's hints on how to defeat Duncan on GuildWiki and it warns against using [[Pain Inverter] on him:

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuildWiki

==Hints for defeating Duncan the Black==
- Now that Duncan's Defense deals back damage even from such skills as [[Pain Inverter], [[Backfire], [[Mistrust], [[Guilt], and [[Empathy], it is no longer advisable to attack him in this manner. (In the past, these skills were not affected by Duncan's Defense, and were therefore very effective.)
- All forms of health degeneration can help with getting Duncan's health down. He has no defense against [[Life Transfer], [[Life Siphon], burning, etc.
- A player with [[Swap], [[Gaze of Fury], or [[Unnatural Signet] can move his spirits to a much more manageable position or destroy them as necessary. Spirits of [[Recuperation (PvE)] and [[Disenchantment (PvE)] should be considered primary targets, but as long as one is swapping spirits, one may as well swap all of them.
-- Consider using [[Consume Soul] to destroy these spirits instantly.
-- Players more commonly use [[Swap]. If two party members bring swap, the process is very quick and you can remove all the spirits to a safe spot where they can affect neither Duncan nor you.
-- Using [[Recall] also helps when swapping the spirits near Duncan; this way you avoid being spiked by Duncan's Channeling Magic.
- Another method to defeat Duncan is to let a party member die near him and have a Necromancer spam [[Signet of Sorrow] on him, but remember that the Necromancer will take damage from Duncan's Defense.
- Many more pop up touchers are added in Hard Mode and can be deadly.
- It's good to use his tactics against him, so using [[Gaze from Beyond] and [[Channeled Strike] against him is a good way to take him down quick and easy, do make sure though that you have some defense to go against Duncan's Defense

MisterB · Feb 24, 2010, 09:36 PM // 21:36

Protective Spirit, Spirit Bond, and other secondary protection skills work on Duncan's Defense; go ahead and use those skills. Just pre-prot the caster.

AtomicMew · Feb 25, 2010, 04:59 PM // 16:59

A combination of spirits and SY! spam and your entire party can tank him. There's no need for the SV/corpse trick.

Astramancer · Feb 26, 2010, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac1inferno

There's hints on how to defeat Duncan on GuildWiki and it warns against using [[Pain Inverter] on him:

While it may warn against pain inverter, that sort of damage was exactly what I was hoping for with my first idea. I know how to defeat Duncan, as I have done it before, and came up with several other viable methods that would do it easier/faster. If I wanted to just parrot the wiki, then I would have stopped there.

Gabs88 · Apr 24, 2012, 09:34 AM // 09:34

Tactics to defeat duncan:
1. Swap (Swap away the disenchantment spirits or all spirits) and kill him.
2. Terra Ele/sin, reduces the return damage with more damage then he deals, swap away the disenchantment spirits and swap in some of the others to deal more damage with sliver armor.
3. Pain inverter + Protective Spirit + Mark of Protection - Tank with a single character, instakill him. (Untested, but may work ;p)
4. Spoil Victor + Prot spirit
5. Longbow + Autoattack with heroes healing - AFK. Combine with swap.
6. 2-3 UA heroes in the back 4 damage dealing heroes in the front. Actually did this once pre 7h. Worked brilliantly.