Curse

RTSFirebat · Jan 18, 2008, 11:25 AM // 11:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmakinen

Concerning Assault on the Stronghold, I asked Tahlkora to cast Life Barrier and Life Bond on the saurus as it went past the devourers, and that was enough to keep it alive until the gate was broken (maybe 2-3 minutes in the mission). Tried a couple of times to make sure that it wasn't a fluke, and I greatly prefer this method, since it works reliably and doesn't require taking any DP.

The bonder isn't even dead weight since you can bond key members of the party, especially other monks and the MM, to avoid surprise spikes.

tmak could you provide a bonder code template? I can stick it in the first post then

MMSDome · Jan 18, 2008, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Trust me goes quicker if you go through here then rather all the way around

follow the blue line!

Xylia · Jan 18, 2008, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

tmak could you provide a bonder code template? I can stick it in the first post then

Here's one from pvxwiki:

http://72.55.184.54/wiki/Build:Mo/Me_Barrier_Bond_Monk
[skill]life barrier[/skill][skill]life bond[/skill][skill]balthazar's spirit[/skill][skill]blessed signet[/skill][skill]mantra of inscriptions[/skill](optional)[skill]ether signet[/skill][skill]rebirth[/skill]

[wiki]signet of devotion[/wiki] would probably be good for the optional skill.

JoeKnowMo · Jan 19, 2008, 12:41 AM // 00:41

A preliminary attempt at calculating rep points as a function of time spent.

Missions listed in order of time taken to complete them. Mission completion times include the time required to travel to a dungeon/zone or mission trigger of some sort. I'm a little unsure about the time for the last 5 missions as I didn't pay close attention to the clock when doing them.

A Time for Heroes: 3 mins
Curse of the Nornbear: 10 mins
Assault on the Stronghold: 12 mins
Against the Charr: 13 mins
GOLEM: 20 mins
A Gate too far: 20 mins
Blood Washes Blood: 25 mins
Finding the Bloodstone: 35 mins
The Elusive Golemancer: 45 mins
Warband of Brothers: 55 mins
Destructions Depths: 65 mins

The first three missions take 25 mins total and yield 3k rep.

3 Missions: 3000/25 = 120 Points Per Minute (henceforth PPM)
4 Missions: 4500/38 = 118.4 PPM
5 Missions: 6000/58 = 103.4 PPM
6 Missions: 9000/78 = 115.4 PPM
7 Missions: 12000/103 = 116.5 PPM
8 Missions: 15000/138 = 108.7 PPM
9 Missions: 18000/183 = 98.4 PPM
10 Missions: 22500/238 = 94.5 PPM
11 Missions: 30000/303 = 99 PPM

Returns seem to diminish after the first 3 missions. Although, the returns stay pretty constant up to the first 7 missions. Thus, it appears that the optimal number of missions is 3, 4, 6, or 7.

If all 11 missions can be completed in 250 minutes, you would have a PPM of 120. As I said, I'm not 100% certain about my times on the last 5 missions but I feel like the times listed are pretty close to what it took me.

Given the greater chances of wiping or getting slowed down due to deaths on the longer missions, the safest and most consistent method would be to keep doing the first 3 missions. The third mission may be Assault on the Stronghold or Against the Charr depending on the player.

More estimates on time to complete the missions are welcome.

Edit: I'm doing these missions again using a stopwatch and finding that my numbers in this post are exceedingly high. So ignore the calculations herein. Look further down in the thread for more reliable numbers.

tekDragon · Jan 19, 2008, 03:07 AM // 03:07

Very nice.... although I'm not so great at rushing. Chances are I'd go a bit slower.

One factor that is more important for many many people is managing the boredom of the grind. If we assume you're maxing a title. Let's assume you're starting from r6, which is entirely likely after having completed your first NM loop and turning in a book. Disregard for a moment that it might be faster to do stuff in NM until r8.

If you have about 50k points it will take you 36-37 repetitions to max your title while only completing the fastest 3 missions. Otherwise it will take you about 3 reps and 10 missions to complete if you're actually filling the book.

I'm not as grind happy as some people so it's far more likely that I'd complete more of the book for fewer reps even if it does end up taking me a bit more time.

---------

If I find some time this weekend I'll try and complete a book with my Ranger to add to Joe's numbers

mrlopes · Jan 19, 2008, 08:01 AM // 08:01

I've choosed doing 7 missions, in each book trying to avoid the boredom of doing only the fastest.
Another thing i do, is finish each mission 2 times in a row, i have 2 books of course, that help me to cut in the time with the setup of the party and the skills needed for each mission.
I don't use to take note of times but it seems to me that the, Finding the Bloodstone, could be faster than 35 minutes, just put some run skill in the bar, flag the h/h party so they just don't follow you, and run to the entry, after 1 or 2 times you will learn the patrol paths, most of the times you will need to use the run skill only once.
Also Destructions Depths is faster then 65 minutes, and it's a fun mission to do, at least for me

arcanemacabre · Jan 19, 2008, 11:03 AM // 11:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMSDome

Trust me goes quicker if you go through here then rather all the way around

follow the blue line!

Agree with this; this is the route I use. Basically run straight through to the first appearance, then backtrack to the second one, and down south to the third.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeKnowMo

3 Missions: 3000/25 = 120 Points Per Minute (henceforth PPM)
4 Missions: 4500/38 = 118.4 PPM
5 Missions: 6000/58 = 103.4 PPM
6 Missions: 9000/78 = 115.4 PPM
7 Missions: 12000/103 = 116.5 PPM
8 Missions: 15000/138 = 108.7 PPM
9 Missions: 18000/183 = 98.4 PPM
10 Missions: 22500/238 = 94.5 PPM
11 Missions: 30000/303 = 99 PPM

This is some great information, Joe! Thanks! So just doing the three fastest yields the highest points per minute. Awesome.

Missmelady · Jan 19, 2008, 02:46 PM // 14:46

Ill add that to my post after we get some confirming screenshots. I am also planning on seeing exactly how fast I can fill a book tonight and I will make sure that I keep a watch handy for timing purposes. Along with me completing a new book I will also be posting screen shots of each one with dots showing my routes. I will also post a link to a build that I run for everything but Time For Heros.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10242585

Burst Cancel · Jan 19, 2008, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Agree on the Nornbear - I was puzzled as to why you'd take the long way around when I first saw that map.

I'd also like to point out that when you're getting down to small differences in efficiency like a few PPM, the variances between players (and their professions) is going to make a bigger difference in efficiency than anything else.

If you look at the way the book points are distributed:
03 missions: 3000/3 = 1000 per mission
04 missions: 4500/4 = 1125 per mission
05 missions: 6000/5 = 1200 per mission
06 missions: 9000/6 = 1500 per mission
07 missions: 12000/7 = 1714.29 per mission
08 missions: 15000/8 = 1875 per mission
09 missions: 18000/9 = 2000 per mission
10 missions: 22500/10 = 2250 per mission
11 missions: 30000/11 = 2727.27 per mission

However, what might be more instructive is how many additional points you get for doing another mission:
3 missions: baseline 1000 per mission
4 or 5 missions: +1500 each
6-9 missions: +3000 each
10 missions: +4500
11 missions: +7500

In other words, the first 2 missions are worth the same number of points as the first 3. EACH of the 6th through 9th missions are worth the same number of points as the first 3. The 10th missions is worth 1.5 times the first 3. And the final mission is worth 2.5 times the first 3. It should then be easy to figure out whether it's worth doing more missions or not. Most obviously, the whole book is worth 10 times as much as just doing the first 3 missions. So, if you can complete 11 missions in less time than doing the first 3 missions 10 times ...

Cherng Butter · Jan 19, 2008, 05:13 PM // 17:13

GOLEM takes 20 minutes?

BlueNovember · Jan 19, 2008, 06:58 PM // 18:58

^ if not less.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

..
1. Nornbear
2. Golem
3. Assault on the Stronghold
4. Against the Charr
5. A Time for Heroes

and hand in the book. All the listed quests hardly take time.

But would it be more efficient than a full run of all quests?

Here's an idea; stock pile such a book (those 5 quests completed) then wait for a double book weekend =).

JoeKnowMo · Jan 19, 2008, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherng Butter

GOLEM takes 20 minutes?

I'll do a HM book next week and use a stopwatch so I get accurate times. GOLEM probably took me over 15 minutes (which I rounded up to 20) due to waiting for the kilns to heat up and having to pull the last mob.

My numbers are approximates, but I really wanted to get the ball rolling on the discussion of efficiency so I put them out there anyway. Next week I'll post back with precise times. I'll be more prepared for the missions as well so I should be able to get through them faster.

A quick note on Destructions Depths for the guide: Move to the middle of the bridge and pull mobs once the first mob on the top of the hill appears during the Norn part of the mission.

JoeKnowMo · Jan 20, 2008, 11:13 AM // 11:13

I used a stopwatch to time the missions this time around so I have more accurate data. I also didn't waste much time being lost or getting my party wiped due to bad aggro.

Time for Heroes: 3 mins with Pain Inverter and a hex heavy team.

Curse of the Nornbear: 9 mins using a shorter route than the one I'd previously been taking. Thanks to MMSDome and Zerulus for pointing this out.

GOLEM: 10 mins. It took around 6 mins for the kilns to heat up. The Bringers of Destruction can be pulled without aggroing the Destroyer Spawns.

Against the Charr: 11 mins. Kept my team flagged at the left devourer while I trailed the Armored Saurus using Shield of Absorption, Shield of Regeneration, and Gift of Health.

Assault on the Stronghold: 12 mins. The end boss can be pulled through the wall without aggroing the few remaining Charr to the West of his position.

Blood washes Blood: 19 mins. I flagged the h&h at the start of Bjora Marches. I used the Ursan running skill. Thanks to my high energy set I only lost the Ursan form once, about halfway through Bjora. I wiped 2 or 3 times at the end thanks to overaggroing the Charr mobs. Without that, I might have been done in 16 or 17 mins.

A Gate too Far: I forgot to turn on the stopwatch until I arrived at the Raven Shrine on level 1. After that point the mission took 14 mins. I estimate that it took about 5 mins to get to the Raven Shrine. So that would make it a total of 19 mins for this mission. We had a near wipe at the beginning of level 3 and lost time rezzing everyone. I'd have saved about 2 mins without the wipe... so my guess is 17 mins for this mission.

The build I used is my variation of Sabway. I take 2 mesmer interrupts each on the MM and SS. I run Spoil Victor on the third necro with the rest of the bar being Restoration. I fill the rest of the party out with the blood, illusion, interrupt, and protection hench. I used my monk with a hybrid build and used about 2-3 pve skills per mission such as Pain Inverter, Ursan Blessing, and Necrosis.

Please ignore my previous calculation regarding Rep Points Per Minute. It appears I overestimated the time on several missions.

If I exclude the few lost minutes due to wipes or near wipes, these 7 missions take about 80 mins.

Which gives us: 12,000/80 = 150 Points Per Minute.

This is better than the PPM for the first 3 missions: 3,000/22 = 136.36 PPM

I'll post my times for the last 4 missions sometime during the coming week. If it takes around 2 hours total to do the remaining 4 missions, the PPM will remain around 150. I have a feeling that I grossly overestimated the time on those 4 missions so we'll just have to wait until some more precise numbers are in from me or someone else before we can conclude what the most efficient method is.

Longasc · Jan 20, 2008, 12:26 PM // 12:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

So, if you can complete 11 missions in less time than doing the first 3 missions 10 times ...

30 missions vs 11 missions, OK.

Someone posted 3, 10 and 12 minutes for the fastet 3 quests.

So let's say 25 minutes x 10 = 250 minutes.

11 missions:

3 Time for Heroes
10 Nornbear
12 GOLEM
13 Assault
12 Charr
20 Gate Too Far
25 Blood Washes
35 Bloodstone
45 Golemancer
55 Warband
65 Destructions Depths
= 270 minutes

I think Destruction can be done much faster, but well.

For the sake of diversity I might still recommend doing the full book. The pity is that the loot in the story missions is pretty bad and that there are no chests.

Burst Cancel · Jan 20, 2008, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Well, as I said, it doesn't have to be an all or nothing proposition. Looking at those numbers, you'll notice:

First 3 missions = 25 minutes = 3000 points.
+ 4th and 5th missions = +25 minutes = 6000 points (+3000)
+ 6th mission = +20 minutes = 9000 points (+3000) <- this is more efficient
+ 7th mission = +25 minutes = 12000 points (+3000)
etc.

In other words, since you know the number of points you get for doing each additional mission, you can compare that against the time it would take you to do the first 3 missions again, and figure out whether it's worth doing or not. Again, individual completion times are going to vary based on player skill, profession/build, etc. So what may be an efficiency breakpoint for one person is not necessarily going to be a breakpoint for anyone else.

Destro Maniak · Jan 20, 2008, 03:41 PM // 15:41

How long does it takes to max out NM books cause I already not at r8 in asura(78k rep point)and r2 in vanguard, norn. I am hoping for a double rep event in few weeks so I am not going to turn them in. So is it better to do NM books when we can use them?

tekDragon · Jan 20, 2008, 03:54 PM // 15:54

I might be mistaken, but if I recall correctly the last time they had a double points weekend for GWEN that didnt apply to the points from turning in books. Only the points from the bounties and possibly quest rewards.

Destro Maniak · Jan 20, 2008, 04:11 PM // 16:11

*dreams fail*
*suicides*

Missmelady · Jan 20, 2008, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Updated My confirmed times for the missions as of right now. Bottom of the starting post! These times are done with 2 other people. So 3 humans and 5 heros.

Missmelady · Jan 21, 2008, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Making Videos for each of the areas once my guildies and friends hop on. Each one will have a link to you tube with a video of how we did it. I'm not going to mod the video in anyway so you will see the whole run in real time.