Curse

culliganator · May 06, 2005, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Healing is overpowered in Guild wars in general. I see a rapid progression of folks selecting w/mo as a class selection. Why? Because even with low skill one can prevail with a team of paladins. This is even more apparant in pickup games where warriors, and especially warrior monks generally steam roll the competition. Adding to this I believe another flaw is the "auto-follow" feature enabled when attacking a target. It is impossible to run away from an opponent when they are connected to you via an invisible string which reels you in because they are automatically taking all the shortcuts to reach you. Even a sprint ability does not help you in this regard to escape a warrior. A warrior is fast enough because of this even without their own "overpowered" sprint ability. There is no reason why a sprint enabled, lightly armored ranger can't get away from a warrior for example. Just by giving chase a warrior has effectively nullified the ranger's attack power so why do they allways have to catch the rangers so fast? I feel this is a great game but there are some glaring imbalences which are very simple to observe after playing PvP matches for a while. We are only a few days into it and already half the players are choosing warrior/monk as a profession because of the reasons I listed above. I won't even get into the annoying "res fest" we see with invulnerable paladin groups.

Elegos · May 06, 2005, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Just replying because people that haven't purchased the game tend to make decisions based on these misconstrued posts. While healing is very powerful there is a counter to everything in this game. It also requires tactics and teamwork. Maybe you are used to an archer in other games where you were just able to hide and snipe people with no effort? This game doesn't allow for that you either change your skills and tactics, or just flat out lose.

catharsis · May 06, 2005, 06:55 PM // 18:55

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=8362

The War-Monk debate above..

If you're a ranger and you're being run down by warriors, you may want to tweak your build.

Sprint only speeds your run up by 25%, it doesn't last exceptionally long, and it's got a slowish recharge. It's a GOOD skill, even a great one in the right situation.. but it's far from overpowered. The Ranger has very good ways to cripple (50% speed) attackers.. Try incorporating Pinning Shot or Barbed Trap. And hell, even if the warrior's right in your face, you have Evasive abilities, Troll's Unguent and a Secondary class..

Arguing game balance within a week of release is pointless.. People haven't learned to play yet. Give it some time. Guild Wars has been actively beta tested by an excellent player community.. it's quite well balanced.

Witchfinder General · May 06, 2005, 06:57 PM // 18:57

I think wamos are not seen as very effective in the big GvG teams on the ladder.

At least from reading some of their posts, wamos are one of the last targets.

Primary healers/mesmers are the primary targets...

A wamo can be shut down with a couple of mesmer spells.

VividDream · May 06, 2005, 07:02 PM // 19:02

A warrior Wammo runs into a mesmer... loses all his buffs... and dies...

It's not hard to stop a healing spell. It's not tough completely debuff an enemy. You just have to pay attention.

culliganator · May 06, 2005, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elegos

Just replying because people that haven't purchased the game tend to make decisions based on these misconstrued posts. While healing is very powerful there is a counter to everything in this game. It also requires tactics and teamwork. Maybe you are used to an archer in other games where you were just able to hide and snipe people with no effort? This game doesn't allow for that you either change your skills and tactics, or just flat out lose.

I love the game and can't stop playing. I am not sure what it is like in the upper echelons of guild play but in pickup games at the Koga arena what I say is true. It is probably due to the "skill factor" as you say or perhaps "lack of skills" that is causing warrior/monks to prevail in pickup games. It is very easy to buff yourself or your teammates in this game but very dificult to properly debuff the enemy unless you are well co-ordinated using voice software, etc. No matter what anyone says the reeling in aspect auto-follow creates in combat is annoying when trying to get some distance. Playing a ranger "auto-follow" creates it's own problems. If I leave it be and a target is moving away I will take a few steps shoot, get "obstruction" message 1/2 the time take a few more steps, rinse repeat. If I try to run myself to a better position the pet breaks combat and returns to me thus nullifying the pet's effectiveness.

Dreamsmith · May 06, 2005, 07:50 PM // 19:50

If there were no solutions to these problems in the game, it would be a balance issue. However, all of these problems have solutions. You just need to learn them and start using them. Thus, these are not a game balance issues, they're merely experience issues. Eventually, players will learn...

Cael · May 06, 2005, 08:10 PM // 20:10

For smaller fights, like the 4v4 arena w/mo is pretty powerful.
For 8v8, an experienced guild can take out a team of w/mo pretty easily.

Banta · May 06, 2005, 10:20 PM // 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by culliganator

...
We are only a few days into it and already half the players are choosing warrior/monk as a profession because of the reasons I listed above. I won't even get into the annoying "res fest" we see with invulnerable paladin groups.

As a mesmer / necro I have no problems with warriors. I run from them - let others fight them while I kill all the mages. Then if there are any warriors left I help bring them down fast. I don't have a problem with monks either. The only class I really fear is other mesmers.

xakia · May 07, 2005, 01:41 PM // 13:41

i extremely hate a cheap Paladin build. I've watched 3 players beat on the same paladin for over 26 minutes in the arena. They left the game because there was no way they could take him down. Its rediculous and way popular. Every noob kid runs with the perfect build now. Its unoriginal and a complete bore to see this time and time again.

Some more personal beefs...

Whats up with swords hitting harder than hammers? Sword and shield > hammers? Thats just wrong.

Why do the skills charge so damn slow (slow swing) and take way too much adren to use?

HeiligerGrimm · May 07, 2005, 02:25 PM // 14:25

No I totally agree with you cull. Ive been playing the 4v4 games and more and more all I see is a party of wamos. Its a little overpowering if your not playing a mes... Im playing a Nec/Mes build now that does roughly 10 drain per second and can destroy every other class but the wamo... cheap and overpowered, and seriously making me reconsider playing pvp at all. Even worse its growing in popularity. I played wedsay, and things were kind of scattered out. I got on today and the first 3 groups I played had 3 wamos in it. Definatly a balance issue.

While were on the subject of issues... Ive got one with fort koga 4v4 pvp. Why cant we choose our teamates? Ive got a freind online who I would like to pvp with but cant. That kinda sucks.

Perishiko ReLLiK · May 07, 2005, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeiligerGrimm

No I totally agree with you cull. Ive been playing the 4v4 games and more and more all I see is a party of wamos. Its a little overpowering if your not playing a mes... Im playing a Nec/Mes build now that does roughly 10 drain per second and can destroy every other class but the wamo... cheap and overpowered, and seriously making me reconsider playing pvp at all. Even worse its growing in popularity. I played wedsay, and things were kind of scattered out. I got on today and the first 3 groups I played had 3 wamos in it. Definatly a balance issue.

While were on the subject of issues... Ive got one with fort koga 4v4 pvp. Why cant we choose our teamates? Ive got a freind online who I would like to pvp with but cant. That kinda sucks.

just a note... a nec mesmer can Tear the stuffing out of a wa/mo... in all truth, alot of classes can...

and your other problem... there are arena's where you can choose your teammates... you just got to find them, i think they are relatively farther in the game then the first arena's... just gotta wait till you play farther...

Falconer · May 07, 2005, 03:21 PM // 15:21

Also speaking as a Rambo junky (Ranger/Monk, come on ignite arrows... it just screams compound bow with explosive arrows!). There's a lot of things you can do to make a Wa/Mo's life miserable.

Traps were raised (and barbed is my personal favorite for the gimp). Crippling shot/ping down I feel were nerfed too much, but they're still effective. You shouldn't leave home without hunters shot (which is another good 15-20s bleed attack if you can get them while moving). And a lot of people discount energy denial. Debilitating shot, will crimp another casters style, but against a warrior with their extra-slow energy regen it can keep them running on zero and unable to use their prized healing skills at all.

The thing about Wa/Mo's is that they're heavily reliant on enchants... Another absolute personal favorite is Nature's Renewal. This is the only skill in game which will remove ALL hexes/enchants when cast. (and also a really good way to upset your entire team, same goes for quickening zephyr)

The reason whammy's (wa/mo's) seem so powerfull right now is because people are largely inorganized. And haven't learned how to deal with them yet. Not saying that they aren't a good combo, but there's a lot of other good combos, just this is a very good newbie class to learn with until they graduate to more advanced builds.

Manderlock · May 07, 2005, 03:28 PM // 15:28

I have to say it . My War/Necro build OWNS all pallys, you just have to know what your doing.

P.S. Yall are complaining about the wrong type of War/Mo, there is a MUCH better build than the one yall are talking about.

Kriegar · May 07, 2005, 03:41 PM // 15:41

My build is that other type... much more effective IMO.

Cordub · May 09, 2005, 10:18 PM // 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cael

For smaller fights, like the 4v4 arena w/mo is pretty powerful.
For 8v8, an experienced guild can take out a team of w/mo pretty easily.

No there not, the W/Mo is the noob class of the month. Just because they can heal thems selfs or buff dont bean nothing. I kill them, everytime, i have never dead to a W/Mo by him self. I kill them so fast but they seem to run right to me lately even leaveing charcters of my same type alone. Maybe i just spent to much time in the arena and they know to tie me up. But they still die. Oh yeah im there worst nightmare a Necro/Warrior (a vampire as i like to call it.)

Gerbill · May 09, 2005, 11:14 PM // 23:14

I play as Mesmer/Necromancer...
illusionary burden to slow them
soul feast to steal 5 energy
energy tap to steal another 8-13
or just backfire.. to deal damage as they heal..

personally I think a W/Mo with smiting is a lot more annoying than one with heal, still the backfire and energy stealing is a killer for W/Mo.

Tozen · May 10, 2005, 12:24 AM // 00:24

Warrior/Monks lose out on a lot of damage, and with the proper necromancer or mesmer moves you can cancel out their healing power.

Dropping anything in PvP is fairly easy... the problem with W/Ms is keeping them dead xP

sk33zl0w · May 10, 2005, 01:10 AM // 01:10

I play mes/monk and i am an anti caster and i dont want to re spec or anything like that to take down warriors why?

When I play in something like the tombs i dont run into the problem of wa/monks everywhere and so I am not going to worry about it. The only places I see them is in places like the arena at Droknars Forge where i see numerous teams with 2+ wa/monks. The thing i don't like is that the 2 wa/monks allways seem to come attack me and since i am anti caster i cant do much other than energy burn and phantasm.If all goes well i will be rezzed their priest will die and other classes can take care of them but it isn't that bad since they are tanks it will take them a bit of time to kill me so that i have time to take down the monk with backfire and interrupts.

Cordub · May 10, 2005, 01:11 AM // 01:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tozen

Warrior/Monks lose out on a lot of damage, and with the proper necromancer or mesmer moves you can cancel out their healing power.

Dropping anything in PvP is fairly easy... the problem with W/Ms is keeping them dead xP

Well they cant come back if there team is dead the W/Mo is a joke of a paladin. Let them come back somtimes i like to use them as monk bait. If a monk comes in to rez a W/Mo, if they a stupid and dont run off i will kill them before they get the rez done. Why? because most newb monks will not take a rez signet leaves them really open to a good hard hitting combo attack. If they get rez then i will be betting on a Caster or Monk and they will be dead by time he gets there. Then right back to him, and then he is dead in a few seconds again.