Curse

Nessaja · May 24, 2005, 09:03 AM // 09:03

I'm not sure if this counts, as I'm basicly using the philosophy "if you cant beat them join them", the first character I created in GuildWars was a R/W and that was mainly because I've seen it being called the weakest possible class several time, and that attracted me to make it work.

I have posted my build in guide form here clickme.

Troll Ungent
Cyclone Axe
Dismember/Disrupting chop (depends on cleave/eviscerate)
Cleave/Eviscerate (both work) [ELITE]
Lightning Reflexes
Whirling Defense
Storm Chaser
Apply Poison

That said, I know for a fact that I can solo warriors, especially those wa/mo when you have disrupting chop. For 25 seconds you can even tank multiple warriors without even noticing it, and that seems perfectly reasonable as you won't be targetted all the time, and you have the longest speed increasing skill in the game aka, you can outrun anyone.

Leventh · May 24, 2005, 12:42 PM // 12:42

One on One my ranger can beat ANY warrior.
Only skills that are needed ::Pin Down, Poison Arrow, and Barb Trap::
Open up with a pois. arrow followed by a pin down, kite a few sec. toss up a trap. back to step one.
Warriors will either get sick of limping toward you and give up.. or die trying to catch you.
Some good fillers ::res sig, hunters shot, distracting shot, and troll:: (just be sure to keep it low mana cost)
It is key to NOT get crippled, call it GG if you slip up just once.

ps - i like to throw in a /taunt as the warrior tries to catch me.. you can see flames in their eyes.

Epinephrine · May 24, 2005, 01:26 PM // 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leventh

One on One my ranger can beat ANY warrior.

Absurd. Many warriors have skills to get around that kind of thing. Firstly, if they run a defensive stance while chasing you they may well avoid your cripples, secondly they may be packing a snare themselves, they probably have a speed buff to catch folk like you, if they are Wa/Mo they may have condition removal etc... I hate seeing bragging posts about how 2-3 skills own another class. All it would take is a War/Mes using illusion of haste (ignore cripple and 50% speed boost to chase people down) and your cripples are worthless, and he moves 50% faster. Pair that with a snare and you'll never get away. That's the point - they have a secondary class as well.

Demetrious · May 24, 2005, 01:51 PM // 13:51

One thing I can say for the GW community is that there is no lack of confidence...

I'm level 12 R/Mo right now and I wouldn't say I crush warriors when they come after me.

I think my build is probably better for PvE rather than PvP but that was goal in creating the character - PvP is just for side fun.

It also seems like Throw Dirt and many of the other anti-warrior skills come in at higher levels. Just last I added Dodge to my skills and it worked EVERY time.... well, until I was the last dude standing and there were 4 guys on me. Not sure if it is the best move for the team, but it definitely lets you cut and run from the battle. A few did chase after me and caught me and reingaged at some point, but far more often I ran and was able to get to high ground and resume targetting what I wanted to hit.

I would at a minimum try out dodge at your level. I think I would try and deal damage initially and be patient - dodge worked fast and if you are tying up a warrior while continuing to fire on a high priority target before cutting loose, it seems like that is winning.

Thoughts on dodge at closer to level 12?

Does anyone ever go to something other than a bow?

Epinephrine · May 24, 2005, 02:16 PM // 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demetrious

One thing I can say for the GW community is that there is no lack of confidence...

I'm level 12 R/Mo right now and I wouldn't say I crush warriors when they come after me.

I think my build is probably better for PvE rather than PvP but that was goal in creating the character - PvP is just for side fun.

It also seems like Throw Dirt and many of the other anti-warrior skills come in at higher levels. Just last I added Dodge to my skills and it worked EVERY time.... well, until I was the last dude standing and there were 4 guys on me. Not sure if it is the best move for the team, but it definitely lets you cut and run from the battle. A few did chase after me and caught me and reingaged at some point, but far more often I ran and was able to get to high ground and resume targetting what I wanted to hit.

I would at a minimum try out dodge at your level. I think I would try and deal damage initially and be patient - dodge worked fast and if you are tying up a warrior while continuing to fire on a high priority target before cutting loose, it seems like that is winning.

Thoughts on dodge at closer to level 12?

Does anyone ever go to something other than a bow?

Well, to answer a few things:

Dodge is vulnerable to wild blow, as is every stance. As a warrior in PvE I carried this skill for when I hit enemies that would activate stances - the fact that it cancels a stance makes it valuable, shutting down a ranger's safety 3 seonds into his stance is pretty sweet - that's 27 or 57 seconds without it.

Yes, I have been toying with bow-less rangers, and not as a R/W. Rangers have decent energy in Druids getup, with a focus and a cane you can have a lot of energy. Are you going to use expertise? Is the energy loss worth it? Do you have a way to maintain your casting? If you go as a ranger caster you need to address the issue of energy more so than most, as you are short a pip of regeneration. On the plus side, you take much less damage than most casters.

Leventh · May 24, 2005, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

Absurd. Many warriors have skills to get around that kind of thing. Firstly, if they run a defensive stance while chasing you they may well avoid your cripples, secondly they may be packing a snare themselves, they probably have a speed buff to catch folk like you, if they are Wa/Mo they may have condition removal etc... I hate seeing bragging posts about how 2-3 skills own another class. All it would take is a War/Mes using illusion of haste (ignore cripple and 50% speed boost to chase people down) and your cripples are worthless, and he moves 50% faster. Pair that with a snare and you'll never get away. That's the point - they have a secondary class as well.

lol your a silly guy, using this build has sofar proven flawless when pit up against a warrior 1v1. the dodge thing, that is why you open up with a pin down, so if you miss you still have time to flee and set up a barb ( i have yet to see a warrior evaid both a pin and a barb) the point of this build is to avoid melee at ALL cost.. play it safe if need be.. do not let him get close from what i have seen the base warrior pins require them to get in melee. now the warriors 2nd class will affect your playstyle. assuming you are good enough to have the warrior on an almost constent pin even if you get snared yourself you will still have distance on him. plenty of time to snap off another pin and waddle away. you should try this build before trying to be a smartass.

Demetrious · May 24, 2005, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

Yes, I have been toying with bow-less rangers, and not as a R/W. Rangers have decent energy in Druids getup, with a focus and a cane you can have a lot of energy. Are you going to use expertise? Is the energy loss worth it? Do you have a way to maintain your casting? If you go as a ranger caster you need to address the issue of energy more so than most, as you are short a pip of regeneration. On the plus side, you take much less damage than most casters.

That is interesting... I haven't messed around with that line of thinking but wonder if Beast Mastery / Trapper / Healer is a feasible combo for my R/Mo. Certainly is a different twist

Get's me down to just 3 or 4 attributes and will let me focus on Monk skills while the pet (which is always ignored) will be a single attribute damager (I think you would avoid expertise). Probably not feasible but it would fit the "druid" thinking with a cane and a focus crystal. Anyway, it would be different.

Epinephrine · May 24, 2005, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leventh

lol your a silly guy, using this build has sofar proven flawless when pit up against a warrior 1v1. the dodge thing, that is why you open up with a pin down, so if you miss you still have time to flee and set up a barb ( i have yet to see a warrior evaid both a pin and a barb) the point of this build is to avoid melee at ALL cost.. play it safe if need be.. do not let him get close from what i have seen the base warrior pins require them to get in melee. now the warriors 2nd class will affect your playstyle. assuming you are good enough to have the warrior on an almost constent pin even if you get snared yourself you will still have distance on him. plenty of time to snap off another pin and waddle away. you should try this build before trying to be a smartass.

I'm not a smartass, the warrior mesmer carrying Illusion of Haste ignores cripple, and has 50% increased speed. Your pin down does nothing to him, and neither does your trap. The cycle time on Illusion is low enough that he can recast it faster than you can pin, and he can easily catch you. I do play rangers, and the best way I have to deal with a warrior is to drop the monk supporting him, then let my party finish him off. Have you ever fought a warrior with illusion of haste? Don't tell people off just because you've been lucky, the fact is that your statement "I own any warrior" is absurd. Look at Dakor's post above yours; he uses a ranges hex based speed debuff and illusion of haste to ignore cripple and move fast to you, then uses illusionary weapons to deal damage that bypasses armour. You've probably only met the Wa/Mo tank types out there, and never encountered a Wa/Me.

As to the beastmastery thing, I don't know that healer/beastmaster is a good combo - I spend too much time targetting my own players while healing to effectively manage my pet - I need to be on the same target as he is pretty much, in order to time my attacks and all. As a disruptor or caster killer the pet would be useful though, you can be using spells to hammer the caster while using the pet to interrupt and knock him down (Disrupting Lunge and Bestial Pounce) while using spells to kill him off. The good thing is that the pet skills cycle fast and are thus a good shut down; 5 seconds for Disrupting, 15 for Pounce, and with only 8 expertise you have them down to a cost of 3. 3 energy to knock a skill out for 20 seconds, or knock a caster flat on his back is very useful.

Beqxter · May 24, 2005, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Once I get my Ranger's bow skills under control, I might venture back into the world of beastmastery, but for now I just feel it isn't worth the spot it requires on my skill bar. Of course, that's also from before I could have any cool pet skills. As it was, it just seemed fluffy spent most of her time dying, and then killing ME with the subsequent skills shutdown.

This has been a very useful thread, and I've been applying what I can with fairly good results. But one thing is clear: until I find Pin Down (Lions Arch, I believe?), Throw Dirt, etc, the arena is just going to be a tricky place to be. I've had some luck with Lightning Reflexes combined with old fashioned bookin' it to get out of the way of melee warriors, but for the most part they're still killing me more often than I'm avoiding them. And I don't feel I'm being too helpful if I'm spending all my time running away.

A bit of a topic diversion: Is it just me, or does it seem like there are just WAAYYY to many f***in' WaMo's out there? I went up against a team that had THREE of them. And, to make a broad generalization that will almost certainly result in flames, it seems to me that many if not most of the people playing WaMo's suck at cooperative play. It's gotten to the point that I pray I don't have any on my team, since as often as not they ignore the rest of us and charge ahead, getting us all killed.

Lasher Dragon · May 24, 2005, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by deolmstead

A bit of a topic diversion: Is it just me, or does it seem like there are just WAAYYY to many f***in' WaMo's out there? I went up against a team that had THREE of them. And, to make a broad generalization that will almost certainly result in flames, it seems to me that many if not most of the people playing WaMo's suck at cooperative play. It's gotten to the point that I pray I don't have any on my team, since as often as not they ignore the rest of us and charge ahead, getting us all killed.

LMAO I am coming to despise WaMos more and more. Last night a couple buddies and I are assembling a team to go to the Underworld. I'm 20 Ranger, my 2 buddies are 20 Pyromancer and 20 Healer. Anyway, we have all been down there before. We assemble a team of 8, 1 more monk, a necro/monk, and all the rest WaMos IIRC - I mean, they are a dime a dozen. I lectured everyone prior to going down there that if they want to be in our group, then they have to understand that I will be pulling enemies, and everyone else needs to hang back by the healers UNLESS I say differently. Oh yeah and do NOT talk to the ghost when we get there, LOL. Anyway, we get down there, I wait for everyone to get in, ask if everyone is ready. They are. I tell them "OK sit tight, I am gonna pull some enemies". I walk up the stairs, switch to my longbow and fire at one of the 2 Aatxes or whatever they are called up at the top of the stairs.

My arrow hasn't even hit it's target yet, and what do I see? 2 goddamn WaMos charging by me up the stairs to attack the enemy. Total party death within mmmmm maybe *MAYBE* 10 seconds. Apparently they didn't want to miss out on the action, or were jealous I was getting the glory, or something. Morons. I'm getting to the point if I want a tank in my party it will be a W/E or a W/N... never had a problem with them.

Leventh · May 25, 2005, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

I'm not a smartass, the warrior mesmer carrying Illusion of Haste ignores cripple, and has 50% increased speed. Your pin down does nothing to him, and neither does your trap. The cycle time on Illusion is low enough that he can recast it faster than you can pin, and he can easily catch you. I do play rangers, and the best way I have to deal with a warrior is to drop the monk supporting him, then let my party finish him off. Have you ever fought a warrior with illusion of haste? Don't tell people off just because you've been lucky, the fact is that your statement "I own any warrior" is absurd. Look at Dakor's post above yours; he uses a ranges hex based speed debuff and illusion of haste to ignore cripple and move fast to you, then uses illusionary weapons to deal damage that bypasses armour. You've probably only met the Wa/Mo tank types out there, and never encountered a Wa/Me.

As to the beastmastery thing, I don't know that healer/beastmaster is a good combo - I spend too much time targetting my own players while healing to effectively manage my pet - I need to be on the same target as he is pretty much, in order to time my attacks and all. As a disruptor or caster killer the pet would be useful though, you can be using spells to hammer the caster while using the pet to interrupt and knock him down (Disrupting Lunge and Bestial Pounce) while using spells to kill him off. The good thing is that the pet skills cycle fast and are thus a good shut down; 5 seconds for Disrupting, 15 for Pounce, and with only 8 expertise you have them down to a cost of 3. 3 energy to knock a skill out for 20 seconds, or knock a caster flat on his back is very useful.

I stand by my statement, i own any warrior 1v1. I will admit this build can have problems when you have more then one target after you. I have pvped for hours at a time and yes.. i have seen my share of w/Me and have yet to have one take me down (while using this build)

Neo-LD · May 25, 2005, 01:05 AM // 01:05

It is impossible for you to say you can own any warrior in pvp. Any warrior could bring any skills, not just the usual ones. The Ranger setup you describe is defeated easily by sprint, hamstring, and "I will survive" (though I doubt anyone would carry that) but hey you said any warrior.

A wa/me could easily cast blackout, spirit shackles, or cry of frustration on you. (basically screwing you over) A wa/ra could be carrying melandrus resilience. Bet your ranger cant handle that. Starting to get the idea?

Your claim is also invalid becasue it will never happen. This is 8v8 we are talking about here. Your ability to win 1v1s is meaningless. A warrior that gets hit with throw dirt will immedeatly and frantically control click it until he gets blessed with mend ailment, courtesy of the monk. This is true for any other thing you can do which he cant handle on his own.

The fact that the warrior is trying to kill you means he is stupid. The fact that you respond by attacking him makes you equally stupid. The effective method for dealing with warriors is to ignore them (after pinning them down)

Thank you and have a nice day.

Leventh · May 25, 2005, 03:21 AM // 03:21

to win a 1v1 meaningless? HAH.. as a ranger i will often aggro a warrior or two, if he is foolish enough to follow me and stray away form his healers call it good game.

1v1 meaningless. lol.

and yes, to attack a warrior with normal attacks it quite dumb, that is why i can lure him away, pois, pin and run back to help my team. a warrior with sprint is easy countered with a barb or pin. if you have not tried this build you are in no place to talk.

Edit: i also like to have a storm chaser handy.

Neo-LD · May 25, 2005, 03:47 AM // 03:47

yes, 1v1 is quite meaningless. Your ability to hit and run etc means nothing if a monk can (and will) just cast 1 spell and ruin your day.

For the same reason that warriors dont beat on other warriors, warriors and rangers whould not fight each other. Both characters help there team twice as much if they are making hell on the enemy monks.

I suggest you re-examine the rest of my previous post instead of getting hung up on the 1v1 bit. Thats good stuff there.

btw, your strategy for "guaranteed warrior kills" now seems to require the warrior to be excruciatingly dumb. Just seems ironic to me.

Leventh · May 25, 2005, 04:30 AM // 04:30

*looks at title of post*
hmm my build = warrior killer, my build with a mes sub = warrior/anything killer

kthx

Neo-LD · May 25, 2005, 10:47 AM // 10:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leventh

*looks at title of post*
hmm my build = warrior killer, my build with a mes sub = warrior/anything killer

kthx

Then your buid is pretty stupid, since (as about twenty different people in this thread have stated) the way to deal with warriors is to ignore them.

Leventh · May 25, 2005, 12:14 PM // 12:14

I don’t recall asking your opinion of my build. and as I said before, you haven’t a say unless you have tested it.

Makkert · May 25, 2005, 12:36 PM // 12:36

The focus of this thread is wrong imho.

it should be renamed: how do i kick a caster's butt?

a ranger is not around to match a warrior.
1) rangers are low priority on enemy list, often last to go.
2) disruption works best agaisnt those that suffer the most: monks, necro, etc.
a warrior with empty manapool will still deal damage. a monk or necro is a goner.
3) the armor of casters is lower, your damage is higher against them.
4) a rangers armor has elemental damage bonus...now why do you think is that? use it! kill that elementist

granted, a few slots are usuable for self preservation, but the focus of a ranger should not be 'kick a warrior'. in that case, go play a mesmer or warrior.

thurinn · May 25, 2005, 12:59 PM // 12:59

As others have said there's no guranteed way to beat another class as people don't have fixed skills, it's up to them to bring in what they think will be useful. Most warriors bring in skills that will be useful against monks and casters so you will probably have a good chance going toe to toe against them as a ranger.

Yesterday I had a fun time chasing down a W/Mo in the 4vs4 competition arena and eventually killing it. I'm a R/Me but 6 of my 8 skill slots are used for ranger skills, the other two being Res Sig and Conjure Phantasm. What happened was the two teams had a good fight, and me and this war were the only ones left. We'd both used our res sigs so it was just going to be 1v1. Anyway, right after he killed the remaining ele on my team he came right at me, and what I did to him made him run the hell away pretty fast. From then on it was me chasing him.

My build at the time was like this:

Tiger's Fury
Conjure Phantasm
Distracting Shot
Whirling Defense
Lightning Reflexes
Incendiary Arrows [Elite]
Troll Unguent
Resurrection Signet

I was wielding a Half-Moon bow for quicker shots.

While he was running at me I did my Incendiary Arrows preparation, once that's done I hit Lightning Reflexes and let the arrows fly. What this does is four things. One, with LR I'm shooting 33% faster. With my Half-Moon this means I'm shooting very quickly. Two, combine that with half of the effect of Incendiary, which sets people on fire for x seconds on each arrow hit (2 seconds for me). Now, because I'm shooting at a lot quicker than 2 seconds per shot this means the War was on fire for the full duration of IA (8 seconds). That was just the beginning. Third - and here's the real fun part of IA - is that it also interrupts on each hit. What that means is that the War couldn't do *anything* because as soon as he starts a skill, bang, he's interrupted. For 8 full seconds he was a sitting duck on fire. After IA ends he's down to less than half his health, and he hasn't hit me once so I'm at near full health.

(Edit: I forgot the fourth part, which is LR's defensive side. Even if one of his attempted attacks wasn't interrupted, LR's 75% chance to evade saves me from taking damage).

Then I hit Whirling Defense as IA and LF run out, troll myself to counter any hits he might get through my WD and wait to time my Distracting Shot when he tries to heal and wait for IA to recharge, which is pretty quick at 24 seconds recharge time. But he turned around and ran before I could do it again. To add insult to injury I put Conjure Phantasm on him as he was going away from me.

After that is really boring, just a matter of chasing him down to distract his heals and keep Phantamsing. It still took a while as he could damn well run and I didn't have pin down on me.

Anyway, that's the story of how a R/Me owned the ass of one particular W/Mo on a toe to toe fight. Are there ways to counter that? Of course. But I'm not about to tell people how to kill me.

I've been thinking if it might not be a bad idea to include Apply Poison somewhere in this build too. Obviously, I can't use Poison Arrow as that's an Elite too. I'll have to try that combo out soon.

Epinephrine · May 25, 2005, 01:12 PM // 13:12

Of course you can handle a warrior sometimes; it's always possible. I only object to braggart statements about owning "All warriors".

The point is that while a ranger can handle a warrior, especially with the right build, it's inefficient, so the ranger should be handling a caster or two in that time. Distracting shot is a great skill, and taking out the healing signet can make a world of difference. The flip side is that most warriors are Wa/Mo and are geared for survival so they can tank into combat vs the stuff elementalists and warriors are dropping on them - especially in arena combat the Wa/Mo stereotype is overwhelming. In arena it makes sense to run an anti warrior build, but if you play tombs it's more likely that you are needed to shut down casters. The apparent edge you have over a warrior is due to the fact that you are loading up with an anti-warrior skillbar, which works because of the popularity of warriors, while the warrior is not loading an anti ranger skillbar, due to the lack of skilled rangers. A warrior/mesmer with Burden and Haste using illusionary weapons is about the most anti-ranger of the standard builds - lacking in healing they'll have trouble without support, but they can cut through other warrior's armour like a hot knife through butter, and they have the skills to catch fleeing enemies. They aren't built as "anti-ranger", but at least they are carrying skills which are helpful.

Leventh: You are arrogant - no build is good vs everything and a Wa/Me would have a good shot against you. Since there is no way to organise a test of your warrior owning abilities it may have to be the considered opinion of the community vs your overblown ego, but as soon as they implement 1vs1 combats I'm sure someone can step up and prove my point.