Curse

Beqxter · May 18, 2005, 06:51 AM // 06:51

Other classes, esp. Warriors, don't read this. This is just for us rangers.

I play a ranger and have been closely following and contributing my defense to the "why do rangers suck?" threads on this forum, and have learned a lot to add to my own playstyle with this the most challenging of the professions.

I do well in PvE with henchies or with groups where I can dictate the terms of the battle, and I do well in PvP against casters and other rangers, and warriors who aren't targeting me.

Where I get hung up is in PvP when a warrior sets his/her sights on me. Usually the scenario is this: Hopefully I'll see them coming and get in a hunter's shot. Then I'll stand my ground for a while and throw whatever damage I can at them - dual shot, etc. It's rarely enough, though, and typically I will wind up running away. I'll run around the arena, hoping one of my team-mates will be able to distract them long enough to pull them off me. If not, I'll die.

I know I'm not the only one. I see other rangers running around with their homing-missile warriors behind them. What do YOU guys do that you find effective? I'm only level 13 at the moment so don't have things like Throw Dirt or Crippling Shot, which I know would be helpful. I was considering trying a combination of Dodge to get out of range with Hunter's shot to try and bleed them dry, but haven't had a chance to try that yet.

Anyone have a successful strategy for this all-too-common eventuality?

Gh0sT · May 18, 2005, 08:20 AM // 08:20

I have exactly the same but the problem is my team usually...

I cant even remember how many times my team would run up to the "collection point" as i like to call it (where both teams get near range and stand still because no one dares to make the first move), and im a bit in the back as a ranger...

Usually a couple of different things can happen now:

1. Team rushes back, scared like hell leaving the warrior for me to handle (usually happens with a team without warrior)

2. Our warrior totally ignores the other warrior and goes for a soft target... now i can be wrong, but arent warrior suppost to take the hits... rangers are IMO better at taking out soft targets like casters... (distract, poison, cripple, kill or something like that)

---

Warriors are beatable, with some stuff like DoT (poison, bleeding), but the main factor is that the team should help you... and IMO the problem lies with teh Elementalist in a team...

A non-moving warrior... bashing in on a ranger in other words distracted... what the hell could be a better target for a meteor shower...

As a matter of fact ive never seen an elementalist do anything else then cast fireballs at other elementalists... i bet that if the elementalist would help you out with a warrior you could easily beat them... (as long as there is no monk)

th15 · May 18, 2005, 08:45 AM // 08:45

As a ranger in PvP you should never have problems with warriors. It's pretty simple for a Ranger to shut down a warrior; use throw dirt. Coupled with a defensive stance and troll unguent (which you should always have), a warrior should never be able to kill a ranger 1v1. The way ranger armour is, if he's using a fiery or otherwise elemental weapon, you'll actually be tougher than him (don't go to the lenght of using greater conflagaration though...).

However, if you want to be able to kill a warrior 1v1 with a ranger, the R/W build is the way to go. With a hammer, tiger's fury, for great justice and counter blow, you can keep him on his ass. Add devastating hammer and crushing blow to the mix and you'll send warriors packing in no time.

Most other ranger builds can do enough to negate the damage from a warrior. A R/Mo can use a protection or smiting enchantment. R/Me can use soothing images to shut down their adren. But it's the R/W that will take em out 1v1. Thing about the R/W build is that its rather gimpy for any other purpose.

Deku · May 18, 2005, 10:25 AM // 10:25

Quote:

As a ranger in PvP you should never have problems with warriors. It's pretty simple for a Ranger to shut down a warrior; use throw dirt. Coupled with a defensive stance and troll unguent (which you should always have), a warrior should never be able to kill a ranger 1v1. The way ranger armour is, if he's using a fiery or otherwise elemental weapon, you'll actually be tougher than him (don't go to the lenght of using greater conflagaration though...).

Except the warrior you are fighting likely won't be a mindless drone. He will probably have both an ele and physical damage weapon for warriors and rangers. What if he uses a wild blow to end your stance or a purge conditions to get rid of the blind? Or what if it is the warrior who jumps you, fully charged with adrenaline and hamstrings you, frenzies then unleashes everything he has?

Rangers cant easily own warriors, no one can easily own another class. Even favourable match ups can go very horribly wrong depending on player skill and skill choices for that particular fight.

Neo-LD · May 18, 2005, 11:03 AM // 11:03

Well he can always counter your counter, no matter what fancy things you do. The best defense you can put up involves Whirling Defense, Throw Dirt, Distrating Shot, Hunters Shot, and Pin Down. Using these you can cripple him and bleed him as he makes his appraoch, then throw Dirt at him when he arrives. WHirling Defense is extra in case he is still bugging you. Save distracting Shot for Flourish or Wild Blow.

Honestly, attacking a Ranger is usually a bad idea, even for a warrior. There are many more "soft" targets to after in pvp (monks). If People are atacking you, its good. Rangers have decent HP and ALOT of defensive tricks. Plus your monk can heal you, but usually Rangers can take care of themselves.

The best way for another team to disprove your Ranger is to ignore it.

Deku · May 18, 2005, 11:37 AM // 11:37

That is all very circumstansial. Assuming that all attacks will start with the ranger attacking from range, assuming that the long re-charge skills like whirling defense and throw dirt are available. Using distracting shot on a wld blow is practically impossible to time as wild blow is instantaneous. Having enough time to do all this stuff while the warrior is apparently not doing anything back.

What if the ranger is jumped and hamstrung right away? Whats he going to do with a warrior on top of him? Warriors have interuptions too, ways to end stances.

Really in a tombs fight a ranger shouldn't be taking skills to fight a warrior, he should be taking disruptive skills and kiting any warriors.

JohnCoke · May 18, 2005, 12:56 PM // 12:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deku

That is all very circumstansial. Assuming that all attacks will start with the ranger attacking from range, assuming that the long re-charge skills like whirling defense and throw dirt are available. Using distracting shot on a wld blow is practically impossible to time as wild blow is instantaneous. Having enough time to do all this stuff while the warrior is apparently not doing anything back.

What if the ranger is jumped and hamstrung right away? Whats he going to do with a warrior on top of him? Warriors have interuptions too, ways to end stances.

Really in a tombs fight a ranger shouldn't be taking skills to fight a warrior, he should be taking disruptive skills and kiting any warriors.

That's hilarious... your telling this guy that all these helpful suggestions are worthless and to ignore the problem... then go as far as saying WHAT the ranger profession is supposed to do. If you've ever played in anything other than a pug, you'd realize you cannot define what a profession does (not even monk) or your asking for defeat. Not saying you can't generalize or stereotype but telling someone they HAVE to play their character this way... well you don't. Don't listen to Deku, the previous post is exactly what you need at your level for an anti-warrior. If you said a secondary profession that'd give us more ideas for a better anti-warrior build.

RepinsMirg · May 18, 2005, 01:05 PM // 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gh0sT

2. Our warrior totally ignores the other warrior and goes for a soft target... now i can be wrong, but arent warrior suppost to take the hits... rangers are IMO better at taking out soft targets like casters... (distract, poison, cripple, kill or something like that)

This line of thought would work other then the fact that the warrios won't be taking the hits not because they choose to not be hit but because the other team chooses to not hit them. Why attack the warrior and kill it in 30seconds when you can kill that nice squishy ranger in seconds flat.

Deku · May 18, 2005, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Quote:

That's hilarious... your telling this guy that all these helpful suggestions are worthless and to ignore the problem... then go as far as saying WHAT the ranger profession is supposed to do. If you've ever played in anything other than a pug, you'd realize you cannot define what a profession does (not even monk) or your asking for defeat. Not saying you can't generalize or stereotype but telling someone they HAVE to play their character this way... well you don't. Don't listen to Deku, the previous post is exactly what you need at your level for an anti-warrior. If you said a secondary profession that'd give us more ideas for a better anti-warrior build.

What are you even talking about? Ignore what problem? In the tombs your ranger inst exactly going to be swamped with warriors, in fact rangers are the lowest priority class of all. If your playing a proper HoH group then you are targeting monks first and then mesmers next, Most rangers dont even register. The only rangers than can cause a serious group problems is one that uses lots of disruption. A ranger that has half his skill devoted to protecting himself from a warrior is an absolute waste of a char and would never get into any serious HoH party.

Maybe you didn't see it or something but this guy is talking about pvp, not pve and yes there are verry narrow lines for what you can do with a proper pvp char. The best chars are ones that are very focused on what they do, and everyone in the party has a specific purpose. Putting together a random assortment of skills that seems powerfull doesn't work for most builds. Monks should be dedicated healers, mesmers shutting down monks, rangers disrupting, warriors prefferably with monk secondary so they can be the main rezers as they are low target priority.

Go make that ranger then with the contrived plans for taking on warriors and see how good you do in the tombs.

If you want a strategy then use this- Use pindown on any warrior that attacks and then run to a new spot and resume attacking the called target, which will very unlikely be a warrior unless everyone else is dead.

Beqxter · May 18, 2005, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Unfortunately, I don't have pindown or throw dirt yet, although believe me my eyes are peeled - those would really help.

My PvP build is a R/W13, currently with the following:

Tactics: 4 or 5, can't remember
Expertise: 7
Wilderness Survival: 6
Marksmanship: 6

Frenzy
Ignite Arrows
Dual Shot
Hunter's Shot
Debilitating Shot
Watch Yourself or Whirling Defense
Troll Unguent
Rez Signet

And yes, I'm asking specifically about Arena PvP here. I don't have a problem questing in PvE. And in PvP I think I'm carrying my weight for the team, unless I get locked on by a warrior. Then it's pretty much me running around trying to shake him.

I hear what Deku is saying, and I agree - I'd rather not devote half my bar to skills purely there to avoid warriors. My question is really one of polling strategy: for those of you who are rangers, when this happens to you (and you know it does), what do YOU do? Does it work?

mr_boo · May 18, 2005, 05:24 PM // 17:24

I've only played in Arena as well thus far, but when Warriors charge me, I typically cast Troll Ungent on myself, and lock on a soft target and just ignore the Warrior. I know it's almost like suicide, but I figure if I can take out one of the soft targets for my own life and occupy the warriors' time long enough so that it takes him a good while to take me down, then I'm doing an okay job. I've only sucessfully run away once from a Warrior, so I don't like doing that. So typically I stand my ground, take the hits (with Troll Ungent) which hopefully buys enough time for my teammates to take care of business. This actually kinda works...seveal times I've done this and I've taken out a Ele or Mes or Mo and then my teammates sweep in and save my @ss.

EDIT:
BTW, you should, if you can, change the topic thread so it reads 'What's your Arena Strategy ....'

Neo-LD · May 18, 2005, 07:25 PM // 19:25

@Deke

True that a ranger should not focus on anti warrior. However, none of the skills I mentioned are that far out of what is normally used. Every Ranger I have ever seen uses Whirling Defense. Distracting Shot falls under the "disruption" that you Identify with "the only rangers that can cause a serious group problems". Throw Dirt can be used in any build becasue it is an expertise skill.

The point is, you can have good disruption and still be able to deal with a warrior in your face. Example:

R/Me
11 Inspiration
10 Marksmenship
10 Expertise

Dibilitating Shot
Distracting Shot
Whirling Defense
Echo [E]
Ether Lord
Power Drain
Inspired Hex
Inspired Enchantment

A ranger that can:

interrupt (distracting shot, power drain)

sabatage mana (dibilitating shot, echo for another dibilitating shot, Ether Lord)

replenish his own mana (inspired echant, inspired hex, ether lord, power drain)

dispel (inspired enchant, inspired hex)

and survive against a warrior for a little while (whirling defense, distracting shot, put a hex on him from inpired hex, or an enchant on yourself from inspired enchantment)

The warrior may eventually get around your fancy moves, but it may take a little while, and you can always count on a reliable monk to save you. If it was possible for any class to completly negate another, there would be a problem. For now, almost any class except another warrior should be happy to merey delay their destruction when beng attacked by a warrior.

taion · May 18, 2005, 08:25 PM // 20:25

The point is, in Arena, if you're running around and not dying to the warrior, you'll pretty much nullifying one of the characters on their team entirely, since the warrior isn't getting anything accomplished either... so how is that not contributing?

For warriors without monk backup, there are a few silly builds that deal enough damage to have a fair chance at taking out a warrior outright with damage.

Bigb04202 · May 18, 2005, 08:35 PM // 20:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

@Deke

True that a ranger should not focus on anti warrior. However, none of the skills I mentioned are that far out of what is normally used. Every Ranger I have ever seen uses Whirling Defense. Distracting Shot falls under the "disruption" that you Identify with "the only rangers that can cause a serious group problems". Throw Dirt can be used in any build becasue it is an expertise skill.

The point is, you can have good disruption and still be able to deal with a warrior in your face. Example:

R/Me
11 Inspiration
10 Marksmenship
10 Expertise

Dibilitating Shot
Distracting Shot
Whirling Defense
Echo [E]
Ether Lord
Power Drain
Inspired Hex
Inspired Enchantment

A ranger that can:

interrupt (distracting shot, power drain)

sabatage mana (dibilitating shot, echo for another dibilitating shot, Ether Lord)

replenish his own mana (inspired echant, inspired hex, ether lord, power drain)

dispel (inspired enchant, inspired hex)

and survive against a warrior for a little while (whirling defense, distracting shot, put a hex on him from inpired hex, or an enchant on yourself from inspired enchantment)

The warrior may eventually get around your fancy moves, but it may take a little while, and you can always count on a reliable monk to save you. If it was possible for any class to completly negate another, there would be a problem. For now, almost any class except another warrior should be happy to merey delay their destruction when beng attacked by a warrior.

That doesn’t look like a good build even with Druid armor on you energy going to be gone in 7 sec. You better be taking REZ with you in PvP if you don’t well I leave it at that. If I was to build an anti warrior build which I would not this would be it.

(1) REZ
(2) Throw dirt -pore warrior cant hit you
(3) Troll urgent
(4) Pin down- shot the warrior before he get to you to add a little damage.
(5) Smooth images – take away a warrior ability to use adrenaline
(6) Distract shot – so he cant heal him self.
(7) Penetration shot- 20% armor penetration also recharges ever 3 sec
(8) Poision

Im not saying the build perfect but it just might kill a warrior.

Howling Wind · May 18, 2005, 10:15 PM // 22:15

I think for Rangers, timing and follow up skills are our advantage. This may be a waste of skill slot for some but favourable winds sure helps alots, just cast it before hand and it will be there for 2+ mins.

Then a pin down with a long bow to cripple the warrior, the favourable winds just helps not to miss. This seems to be a good way to start the battle. Then just tiger fury and poison away or get the burning arrows (melandrus something...). If warriors gets too close, then cripple and lightning reflex away and repeat the attacks. Again timing is crucial because warriors do have alot of skills that can be seen as anti-ranger in terms of blocking their skills or attacks but just use distracting shot or punishing shot to interrupt.

I wouldn't advise concentrating skills soley on warriors though because its not necessary that your always attacked by a warrior, not gonna be useful if you can't block against other classes well.

Zeru · May 19, 2005, 02:13 AM // 02:13

Why would you want to fight directly against a warrior?

Most of the time they are not going to be high priority targets so just look the other way, cripple them with pin down, and continue hitting the designated target.

Whirling defense and throw dirt are hardly must-haves. Ele's blind way more effectively and their 60 second recharge times is just awful.

The only reason I could see a ranger targeting a warrior early on is if they are R/N and want to stick them with enfeebling blood/shadow of fear/pin down, but directly attacking? little use.

Neo-LD · May 19, 2005, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigb04202

That doesn’t look like a good build even with Druid armor on you energy going to be gone in 7 sec. You better be taking REZ with you in PvP if you don’t well I leave it at that. If I was to build an anti warrior build which I would not this would be it.

(1) REZ
(2) Throw dirt -pore warrior cant hit you
(3) Troll urgent
(4) Pin down- shot the warrior before he get to you to add a little damage.
(5) Smooth images – take away a warrior ability to use adrenaline
(6) Distract shot – so he cant heal him self.
(7) Penetration shot- 20% armor penetration also recharges ever 3 sec
(8) Poision

Im not saying the build perfect but it just might kill a warrior.

Actually, I have played the build I posted- I just didnt think it up and put it down. I dont know how you think it will ever be low on mana. Dibil Shot costs 5 mana with expertise, distact hot costs 3. All the mesmer spells except echo give me back at least as much mana as I spent for it. In fact, power drain and ether lord make it so I can almost never be low on mana. That build can shut down casters and deal with warriors in its face.

Certainly it could be much better anti-warrior, but the best way to defeat warriors is to not attack them. Heavy armor, high hp, self heal, monk help = hard to kill. In fact, warriors are the only character that is worse to target than a ranger. Always try to take out soft targets.

Bigb04202 · May 19, 2005, 01:29 PM // 13:29

If you tired it and it works great I did not mean to attack you build it. It just seams better suited for a ME/RE build than a RA/ME. I think a lot of people give advice on this board without actually trying stuff it out. I never used the spell echo or ether lord I think I might try it out tonight so I can actually see it work in action. I would never attack a warrior unless he was about dead or it was one on one

Theneler · May 19, 2005, 02:01 PM // 14:01

Well, in PvP I have Spirit of Favourable winds up, Ignite Arrows, and Judges Inisght off and on.

So warrior starts coming after me. . Pin down, Judges Insight if its not on. Dual Shot. ( that should hit him for 100+ ). Couple more shots, then hes in melee range. Whirling Defense gets thrown up, couple more shots, then troll unguent. Once whilrling defenses is down, throw dirt. By the time throw dirt is expired, he should be dead.

If hes a Warrior Monk, use distracting shot, or even Choking gas to stop heals.

Yukito Kunisaki · May 19, 2005, 03:35 PM // 15:35

I've read most of this thread, and lots of other [this class will OWN/PWN THAT CLASS] threads and it's pretty sickening...

My Warrior/Necromancer with the skill set he's acquired since Ascension I promise you will effectively RAPE any class. Then again, if you know what I'm using, you can counter it right? If I know what I'm up against [or guess correctly, whichever the case] my Warrior can stay on your ass like white on rice and pretty much shut someone out of a fight... [he's a curses/disruptor build]

There is no I will own your class kind of class. There is however, versatility vs. focus in one's build. Please don't write, "you can own a warrior with this" quote...

Plague Touch/Sending to give you a nice dose of your own poison/cripple/bleeding.
Wild Blow/Rigor Mortis... - dodge me? right...
Deflect Arrows/Shields Up - anti-ranger, easy...

I too made a ranger and the warriors out there that ARE smart... [you'll know who they are late game, if they know they won't out damage your healer, they WILL disrupt the shit out of you...] are VERY good challengers, though not invincible...

For that anti-warrior ranger who wants to keep warriors at bay... Pin Down + Imagined Burden (yep, the R/M) can ensure that they stay there, away from you at bay...

If they've got monks, hey so do you, but we'll keep this on a 1v1 basis. Penetrating Shot, Hunter Shot, Conjure Phantasm can give you not only a good hard hit, but some lasting ANNOYING dot that will add on to whatever dmg per second you are already doing. DOT is bad by itself but when coupled with a ranger's dmg enhancers (Read the Wind, Ignite Arrows, Favorable Winds, etc.) You can build a ranger that might or might not cleave a warrior into pieces and gibs...

Best advice for you rangers out there, play a warrior, they're not noobish lower classes. They're an essential part of the game. Those 'pros' out there who say warriors are noob classes haven't fought me on a good team yet... ^_^