Curse

nightrise420 · May 24, 2005, 03:29 PM // 15:29

I'm a War/N currently using Sword. I was wondering which one is better for damage output. I know Axe has raw power but Sword has bleed which is 3arrow degen and damage over time. Can someone give me some advice on these two weapons?

Jorge Llorens · May 25, 2005, 07:13 AM // 07:13

There are many factors that can influence your choice. The decision of going between swords or axes is not as black and white as which one deals more damage.

The first thing that will affect your decision is your build and your current situation. In PvP a very useful ability to have is the ability to disrupt your opponent from using skills, for this reason I personally prefer axes because of Disrupting Chop. Swords have Savage Slash but I favor the Chop because of its skill lock add on. On the other side of the coin however, Savage Slash is always available for use as long as you have 5 energy while Disrupting Chop can take a while to be ready because of its 6 adrenaline cost. So although the Chop is better as an interrupt, it might not be as reliable if you are not aware of it's limitation.

Another thing that you might want to consider is the weapons. Both axes and swords swing at the same speed. That means that you get the same number of attacks with both weapons over the same period of time. Swords have a maximum base damage of 15-22 while axes have a maximum base damage of 6-28. Obviously, the first impression you see is that axes can hit both for more dmg than a sword and for considerably less dmg than a sword.

But take it a step further. Remember that the actual damage that you deal to an opponent depends on two factors: Your attack and the armor level of the opponent. The higher the armor level of your opponent the lower in the range of your weapon damage you will strike. For instance, if you are using a sword against a heavily armored opponent you will be hitting for 16s and 17s and if you were using an axe against the same opponent you will be hitting for 7s and 8s. On the other hand, if you are using a sword against a light armored opponent you might be hitting for 20s and 21s while an axe against the same opponent will be hitting for 26s and 27s. Finally, on the point of the weapons base damage, recall that critical hits are based on the maximum damage of your current weapon. Without any doubt, axe criticals hurt more than sword criticals. There is roughly a 20% chance of scoring a critical hit against an opponent of even level.

From those observations you can draw this conclusion: Against heavily armored opponents it is better to use swords, against light armored opponents it is better to use axes.

Finally consider the Elite skills available for axes and swords and how they might fit in your build. Axes has two elite skills, Eviscerate and Cleave while swords has Hundred Blades. To remind you of each skill:

Cleave (4 adrenaline): If this attack hits you deal an extra +1...+22 damage.

Eviscerate (7 adrenaline): If this attack hits you deal an extra +1...+24 damage and inflict a Deep Wound for 5-17 seconds.

Hundred Blades (5 energy): You strike twice at your opponent and any adjacent opponents to your opponent.

Ultimately there is not much to talk about the elite skills without taking into consideration the build that you are currently using and what role you are trying to fullfil in the group. Of the 3 skills, personally, I think that hundred blades is the better. Striking twice to an opponent is seems just as good as the extra damage provided from the other two elites. Striking twice also gives you two strikes of adrenaline. Ofcourse, no one can deny that scoring a critical hit while using Cleave is, to say the least, quite painful.

For PvP I use axes myself. Soft targets (monks, eles) are big threats and when I make a PvP warrior I usually build them around maximizing damage against them. Axes have the benefit of being more damaging against my chosen target plus it gives me the skill lock ability from Disrupting Chop.

Anyways, that's my opinion on the sword vs axe issue.

JLL
Ugnaut The Grim

Rey Lentless · May 26, 2005, 01:30 AM // 01:30

I'm confused.

Quote:

The higher the armor level of your opponent the lower in the range of your weapon damage you will strike.

Where did you get that information?

I thought the damage range was random. Like 15-22 = 18.5 average (not including crits), and 6-28 = 17 average.

While more armor will reduce that average damage, it is still random isn't it? Just a die roll for damage, if it crits, and then that's reduced by AL.

At 20% crits, your swords will have an extra average of 5.1, for a total of 23.6.

Axes will do an extra 7.8, for a total of 24.8.

If you're attacking higher level foes, then the crit chance drops, and swords have better dps.

Lower level, and axes do better.

Chasing, axes do better. Using auto crit skills, axes again.

And hammers better than both, with an average of around 27 counting the lower attack speed and crits.

Trenchsoul · May 26, 2005, 05:46 AM // 05:46

Hundred Blades isn't even compareable to cleave or eviserate. The first big no no being that it costs mana, which, if you're playing a monk secondary, rules it out entirely. Its cooldown is much longer than it should be as well, and swinging twice does not make up for the lack of + to damage. Although I initally loved Hundred Blades because when using it in conjunction with Vigorous Spirit I was able to get at least a 16-32 heal easily. In PvP however, I've found that its quite rare that you have multiple opponents surrounding you.

Cleave blows the snot out of Hundred Blades because it has no cooldown, costs four, count 'em, four swings of adrenaline. It might as well be instant and free. Then Eviserate is like cleave, but better. 7 strikes, not all the great, but it also adds up to +24 to damage and causes a deep wound. Follow up with Axe Rake which cripples and adds about +10 damage will full axe mastery. For quick in your face damage, axes are the pwnz. I still enjoy swords for the surprise factor when you hit some poor guy with Final Blow and his body hits the floor before he realizes what happened.

Disrupting Chop is also quite useful, but requires some skill to time that you may not have. Distracting Blow, though it costs 5 mana, goes whenever you need it and does not reset your attack. Savage Slash and Disrupting Chop are pretty equal. Savage Slash is better though since it aids in the squishing of pesking monks who have a dozen ways to heal themselves. Cutting off one skill doesn't do you a whole lot. Savage Slash hits for up to +32 damage if I remember correctly.

Hammers are a completely different play style than the caster chasing. Skills such as Devastating Blow and Counter Blow are meant for disabling other Warriors. Counter Blow as he tries to hit you, Devastating Blow, then follow up with Heavy Blow after Devastating Blow for the finishing knock down and repeat. I've found I quite like this combination with Berserker Stance.

Ishamael Sedai · May 27, 2005, 03:39 AM // 03:39

illusionary weapon > swords and axes

taion · May 27, 2005, 06:00 AM // 06:00

Because, you know, any enchantment kill neutering you for the next 40 seconds and mesmer armour are always desireable qualities in a melee fighter.

th15 · May 27, 2005, 06:46 AM // 06:46

My opinion is that you should mix in axes with swords. It's about synergy, not one on one effectiveness. Two sword warriors will end up using sever and gash on the same target. A target can only suffer from bleeding and deep wound once so that's rather a waste. Why not instead let the sword warrior hamstring the target, bleed and gash the target then let the axe warrior keep him from healing wth disrupting chop and finish off with axe twist and executioner's/cleave.

Disrupting chop is a must for interupting quick spells like reversal of fortune. It also has another important advantage over savage slash; it locks the skill. Ressurect, for all its boneheaded slowness, has zero recharge time. If you interupt a W/Mo ressing, he can actually just try again immediately. Disrupting chop prevents that.

Overall, the axe is a better monk killer. A monk that stays and heals gets hit by disrupting chop, shutting down his healing. A monk that runs takes the full pain of an axe's critical damage. You can do upwards of 100 dmg with executioner's strike or cleave on a running target.

Against warriors, the axe is still useful for it's armour penetration, it just deepends on how you set up your warrior.

However, the sword has undeniably better average damage along with some nice skills of it's own (hamstring being the star skill). It also combos with conjure element better (conjure + hundred blades is the most effective use of hundred blades).

Both weapons are pretty much equal, the key is synergy.

Joe Swordsman + Bob Swordsman = 2 Swordsmen.

Mike the Axe + Mack the Knife = A world of pain.

Phantom Force · May 27, 2005, 09:41 PM // 21:41

I am currently a 20 W/Mo using an Axe PvE. I initially thought that sword would be the best thing to use but then decided against it. First because everyone and their brother uses a sword. In my experience and with the melees that I have partied with I may have seen 1-2 characters using an axe.
I find that unfortunately when finding stone guys or something I do considerably less damage, but when I hit the softies I do more damage and destroy them. Killing off the elementalists, monks, mesmers, and rangers I feel is more important PvE than getting pesky warriors. I find that my team as a whole does better whether it's NPCs or RL people.

Also what I like about Axe is 6-28 damage
1 - Cyclone --> Especially good when you want to hit multiple targets (usually casters standing close together)
2 - Cleave --> 4 Adrenaline (whats not to love) can hit this 2x compared to executioner's strike and do more damage
3 - Axe twist --> hits 1-16 more damage when foe suffers deep wound (used after dismember oh boy very nice)
4 - Dismember --> (Do you really need to ask? 20% life reduction and foe suffers deep wound, use before axe twist) I find this does amazingly well on pesky casters who can heal themselves and kills them faster
5 - I use healing spell
6 - Bonetti's
7 - Sprint
8 - Rez

This is my build atm... I've yet to take the time to get my other elite skill but I doubt I'll change it with Cleave because of 4 Adrenaline. PvP that will be nice but maybe for PvE I may try Eviscerate instead of Dismember and use some other skills. I enjoy this build very much, and I could care less if anyone creates the same or already chose to do one similar. It's fun and enjoyable, and the best thing as I said before is that I hardly see axe warriors.

The Red Knight · May 28, 2005, 10:24 AM // 10:24

IMO axe > sword in higher game pvp because of cleave monks and or w/mo can always remove deep wounds/bleeding

termite · May 28, 2005, 01:17 PM // 13:17

Axe seems to be the dominant amongst the more advanced players from what I have whitnessed. Whenever I would party my rp lvl 20 w/mo with other w/mo's, majority of them would be equipped with axes + using cleave.

Ishamael Sedai · May 29, 2005, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by taion

Because, you know, any enchantment kill neutering you for the next 40 seconds and mesmer armour are always desireable qualities in a melee fighter.

An IW user does not have to be a mesmer. My IW build is a warrior. I have a 12 in that and a 12 in inspiration. While having an enchant broken sucks, I can also play the role of mesmer until I can IW again. Ether lord evens the mana playing field whether you are a w/me or an me/w. Plus as a w/me you have the advantage going against mesmers who throw anti melee hexes on you when you can counter with energy drain spells.

Yukito Kunisaki · May 29, 2005, 11:00 PM // 23:00

For me axe>sword...

early game the dot from bleeding is cool and all but late game, a sword's ability to disrupt falls very far flat compared to that of an axe.

I like disruption. i've seen first hand that bringing the most damaging skills to pvp just doesn't seem to work out. So instead of dealing damage, I go for status conditions and victory is mine...

Sword in pve is quite crap considering the enemies with GOOD exp and drops don't bleed. Thereby reducing ur dmg output by... a lot.

I like axe due to its ability to be well used anywhere and anytime.

that and...

DISRUPTING CHOP...!!