Curse

th15 · May 30, 2005, 10:35 AM // 10:35

*(My bad, it's an elite divine favour spell)*

The problem with facing spiker builds is that you dont know which teamate they are going to attack and by the time you do, it's too late.

shazbawt · May 30, 2005, 10:49 AM // 10:49

Its Divine Favor based. And Very Useful for saving fellow monks.

with 16 Divine Favor it lasts 18 seconds. Thats an eternity for spell immunity

Xellos · May 30, 2005, 11:05 AM // 11:05

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btw, Spike build aren't that great in HoH... as you need AoE there, and the only AoE they got is probably chain lightning (unless they switch their build and are now Air/Fire)

o.O why AOE again? I thought leaving warriors alive was a good thing.

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prot spirit owns any type of spike dmg.... see backfire go down to 40~ dmg instead of its norm..

Yeah, it's damn good.

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the fact that it is spammable makes it viable even with enchantment removal.

Yeah isn't that funny, you can waste a shatter enchant/rend and whatever, only to get it popped up back in 4 seconds. How lame is enchantments at the moment.

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with 16 Divine Favor it lasts 18 seconds. Thats an eternity for spell immunity

Pretty much, but nowadays, even Spellbreaker isn't all that scary if the enemy has a mesmer.

Ellestar · May 30, 2005, 11:12 AM // 11:12

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Originally Posted by shazbawt

5 Air eles can't take a target down in 1 hit.

106*5=530 damage at the very least

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Originally Posted by Darc.Syde

protective spirit...

Like... You recieve several lightning orbs, cast protective spirit and lightning strikes kill you after that?

Xellos · May 30, 2005, 11:16 AM // 11:16

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Like... You recieve several lightning orbs, cast protective spirit and lightning strikes kill you after that?

Reversal of fortune. If their timing is good, they pretty much earned the kill. The problem doesn't lie in how fast elementalists kill, rather how powerful monk defense has become, disabling any chance warriors or rangers have of killing. This forced elementalists to become the new powerhouse.

If warriors and rangers some how can kill for once, maybe the game will change in tombs. But at this point, dinky arrows that go *pink* and warriors who swing at the air more then cloth are pointless. What good is the abusable fear me if you can't even get the 4 adrenaline enough?

Actually, I'll be honest, most people are currently working on builds that can make those idiots hit. Maybe, just maybe, the flavour of the month will change sometime soon.

shazbawt · May 30, 2005, 08:16 PM // 20:16

There are numerous builds and skills that can be used to counter single target training....

and btw there is passive resists against elements, you don't do the full damage, 530 damage will be reduced to about 450 at the most. I personally have superior vigor unlocked, and alot of people have at least major vigor unlocked. I don't see the problem with taking a couple of hits when 2 other monks can easily heal you or the target while you protect it.

Mark of protection - Counter to Single target and aoe damage (though very effective it becomes only a short healing hands against all damage)

Spell Breaker - Complete Spell immunity for up to 18 seconds (only effective when used on a target getting mass spammed with spells)

Protective Spirit - Lasts long and is very helpful in saving targets that already have alot of DP, but other than that...if they want the target to die and the target don't get no heals...gg it

And this is why you use your skills in combination. I have faught a full air ele team many times during BWEs, and you don't drop in 1 hit, and there is a good 2 second or more gap before they fire again. If monks can't protect the target in that time, you need better monks

Tiberius · May 30, 2005, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Flourish warriors with lots of unevadable attack skills, and miss enducing hexes can simply be removed.

Vermilion Okeanos · May 31, 2005, 12:45 AM // 00:45

5 air ele does far more than 500 actually... my typical lightning orb hit on a monk with wanderer set are around 132-134... 132 x 5, it does kill in one hit... unless you got some enchant.

AoE for HoH, or else you get body block in the end... and if u compete with the holding team early on... you will only lose morale boost, while they got their 10% keep comming... which means most people who know about this would wait till the last 2 minutes (no more auto rezz) and charge in and AoE the hell out of the place.

Yes, like most people say... Air Ele is not unbeatable... but just say "protective spirit" would be completely wrong. Maybe it would be right in 1vs1...

Dumachum · May 31, 2005, 01:53 PM // 13:53

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Originally Posted by Xellos

Reversal of fortune. If their timing is good, they pretty much earned the kill. The problem doesn't lie in how fast elementalists kill, rather how powerful monk defense has become, disabling any chance warriors or rangers have of killing. This forced elementalists to become the new powerhouse.

If warriors and rangers some how can kill for once, maybe the game will change in tombs. But at this point, dinky arrows that go *pink* and warriors who swing at the air more then cloth are pointless. What good is the abusable fear me if you can't even get the 4 adrenaline enough?

Actually, I'll be honest, most people are currently working on builds that can make those idiots hit. Maybe, just maybe, the flavour of the month will change sometime soon.

I have a build for my W/N. It's called Warriors Cunning, for when I have adrenaline charged up, and Rigor Mortis for when I need to build up Battle Rage. Hasn't failed yet. Also W/Mo's can time their Holy Strikes the same time as the elementalists knockdown and do 100ish damage too. We're also working on adding an experimental energy upkeep loop in my teams spike build. Our warriors have gotten their share of kills in air builds, trust me.

People are much to concerned with building towards an extreme 5 Air ele's, or help us, 8 monks (which I actually saw once in Tomb), then gettting all the classes to work together. All it takes is coordination and an understanding of how the skills work together.

Darc.Syde · May 31, 2005, 05:08 PM // 17:08

well, right now, this 5 air ele build;s are the flavor of the week, so pure hose-down could help drive it away. sure spells like prot spirit sometimes arent enough, it's flexible enough to run and is a built in counter in every build. the game is about countering, but in tombs, you never run up to 5 air ele builds all the time, so why specialize in defending against that specific tactic? it's pointless. protective spirit is the minimal amount of counters you need, anything else is cherry.

Xellos · May 31, 2005, 06:24 PM // 18:24

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Flourish warriors with lots of unevadable attack skills, and miss enducing hexes can simply be removed.

There's not enough unevadable attacks, also, blind still works. Until warriors have something against blind besides monks casting mend ailment/condition, their still going to be useless for the most part. Flourish also doesn't work because most skills have a small recharge timer, making them worthless to chain.

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Yes, like most people say... Air Ele is not unbeatable... but just say "protective spirit" would be completely wrong. Maybe it would be right in 1vs1...

The only reason it is not completely correct is because of skill. From personal experience, some people get owned even with protective spirit by those with better coordination. No one has all the factors, and everyone has taken their own personal experiences and taken all bias out of them thinking it is an accurate portrayal of the balance that is now. Currently, the only "imbalance" is how warriors and rangers suck in the situation, but even then, I speculate that will change with new strategies, though it will compromise their damage by a fair chunk, that is the arguement that warriors and rangers will still suck. But currently, offense is not overpowered, rather, defense is. Enchantment removal has finally taken a toll even at tombs, considering that 8 warriors does nothing to 1 monk.

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I have a build for my W/N. It's called Warriors Cunning, for when I have adrenaline charged up, and Rigor Mortis for when I need to build up Battle Rage. Hasn't failed yet.

Remove Hex FTW. Hex Removal simply has so much more power compared to enchantment removal. You might be able to hit them for a few seconds, but only before they remove hex. Warriors Cunning does squatt, since that's 10 seconds of them putting down foes and running around. What can you do? Worse part, Rigor Mortis doesn't help vs Blind, your still useless for the most part. Another thing to consider is your damage output. With all those new accurate moves, do you really believe you do enough damage compared to even rangers? I might as well make a shock sniper, at least I live longer, and I hit harder and more more accurately. If rangers are having problems vs what they are suppose to counter at the moment, what good are warriors, the class that is suppose to get countered.

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People are much to concerned with building towards an extreme 5 Air ele's, or help us, 8 monks (which I actually saw once in Tomb), then gettting all the classes to work together. All it takes is coordination and an understanding of how the skills work together

I've yet to see warrior builds defeat Ward vs Foes. That move owns warriors cunning and rigor mortis.

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well, right now, this 5 air ele build;s are the flavor of the week, so pure hose-down could help drive it away. sure spells like prot spirit sometimes arent enough, it's flexible enough to run and is a built in counter in every build. the game is about countering, but in tombs, you never run up to 5 air ele builds all the time, so why specialize in defending against that specific tactic? it's pointless. protective spirit is the minimal amount of counters you need, anything else is cherry.

Not true, protective spirit in the hands of good players, can easily defeat most 5 air ele builds. The biggest factor is skill. This makes sense, in that now the more advance strategies get, the more skill is relied upon instead of just spamming severe/gash/galraths/final with 100 blades or something. Knowing who to hit, when to hit, how to conserve mana, how to defend against, all the advance strategies are now relying on skill. This is how the game should evolve, the only problem is how pathetic enchantment removal is. Buff it up, and the 5 air ele build will be limited to those who are at the top and use their skill to amplify it's power, not posers who can't even time off orbs but still get the job done anyways.

Kaylee Ann · Jun 01, 2005, 07:30 PM // 19:30

2 or 3 mesmers + protective spirit = very dead lightning group (so much so, it is actually pretty pathetic).....

Ollj · Jun 02, 2005, 01:36 AM // 01:36

This is ridiculous:

The game is full of paladins (for no aparent reason but PLAIN hack-n-slash STUPIDITY), and so many Elementarists make this lightning thing, because it penetrates armor with a lot damage (and exhaustion).

Sadly THIS WORKS because of a LACK OF MESMERS and WAY TOO MANY paladins...

Mersmers kill/counter/defeat elementarists quickly, especially over-specialatated exhausted ones.

The true problem with this is, why should there be more Mesmers to defend all the players from elementarists that hunt Warriors?
(while ele's should hunt Necromanchers instead, they just dont find em in betweween all the paladins)

solution
make nore necromanchers, best Ne/E or N/Wa , they hunt down all the Paladins and theres "less food" for the lightning Elementarists.

WNxTyphoon · Jun 02, 2005, 01:42 AM // 01:42

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Originally Posted by Ollj

solution
make nore necromanchers, best Ne/E or N/Wa , they hunt down all the Paladins and theres "less food" for the lightning Elementarists.

Yeah because Necromancer primaries are awesome for pvp!

...

Sleeky101 · Jun 02, 2005, 01:43 AM // 01:43

If lightning ele's decide to spike a warrior instead of me (prot monk), I'd be happy. That isn't how it works.

2-3 mesmers is alright for countering ele's, but they can only counter ele's. But, seriously, are you going to run a build with three? Prot monk with PS is all that is needed, and the ele's are dumping a lot of resources into a target without getting much in return. If you're still dying to it, you need someone with a faster response time and not afraid to use the quick recharging PS.

Kaylee Ann · Jun 02, 2005, 05:41 AM // 05:41

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Originally Posted by Sleeky101

2-3 mesmers is alright for countering ele's, but they can only counter ele's.

Learn how to play before making any other dumb comments.....

wheel · Jun 03, 2005, 06:17 AM // 06:17

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Originally Posted by shazbawt

Spell Breaker. Air eles single target, as soon as you see the target cast it. Most guilds won't realize they are failing until after the 2nd spell. It gives you time to kill someone. 5 Air eles can't take a target down in 1 hit. Switch between protective spirit and spell breaker.

Are you kidding me? 5 air eles can drop ANYTHING with even sub par timing.

team is on TS, team coordinates. each air ele casts surge at the same time, then the disenchanter disenchants just before surge is scheduled to hit. meanwhile, the eles follow up with a scheduled orb that will hit just exactly when surge hits. you wont know who is being targeted until they already have -300 hp.

Xellos · Jun 03, 2005, 06:54 AM // 06:54

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Originally Posted by wheel

Are you kidding me? 5 air eles can drop ANYTHING with even sub par timing.

team is on TS, team coordinates. each air ele casts surge at the same time, then the disenchanter disenchants just before surge is scheduled to hit. meanwhile, the eles follow up with a scheduled orb that will hit just exactly when surge hits. you wont know who is being targeted until they already have -300 hp.

Surge stacks since when? And how is that not counterable and predictable by convert hexes followed by protective spirit and reversals? Surge is the biggest mistake you'll ever make using Air Ele builds.

wheel · Jun 03, 2005, 08:08 AM // 08:08

Protective Spirit would have to be cast exactly after surge/orb is about to hit, less than a 1 second interval, which is hard to time when you don't know exacly when surge was first cast. there's simply not enough time to react to a surge+orb combo when 3+ elems are casting in sync. it's not like you see the first surge orb hit, then you put prot spirit on. you may see the surge coming, but along with that surge is a rend enchantment. with proper timing, the air eles only need to use two attacks to take down a target, both which happen in a 1 second time frame. then, they regruop and repeat. later in the match it may be a "given" that they will be less timed, but it's not a given with a good air ele team.