Curse

The_difference · Jun 01, 2005, 09:31 PM // 21:31

If your going to use a mesmer you need to focus on either domination or illusion. not both. you first need to ask your self: do I want to woop someone who focuses on using alot of energy or do I want to woop someone who likes to use physical attacks. once you decipher what you want to do then focus on either or. If you plan on using domination, then I suggest using it agianst ample energy users. theres tons of energy burners and preventive skills in that attribute to play with. not to say that domination doesnt have good damage. I mean, chaos storm and arcane acho can be quite deadley together. exspecially when you have the attribute at 12+ and a beast just standing there admiring the colors or something.

Kaylee Ann · Jun 01, 2005, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Chaos storm is a worthless spell, and so are mesmers that think they can do damage.

ChristopherKee · Jun 01, 2005, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaylee Ann

Chaos storm is a worthless spell, and so are mesmers that think they can do damage.

Why is that?

Kaylee Ann · Jun 01, 2005, 10:27 PM // 22:27

A mesmers purpose isn't to do damage. A mesmers purpose is to disrupt, prevent the other team from healing and doing damage, and be the biggest pain in the ass to healers and casters. When you try to do damage you defeat the entire purpose of being a mesmer. That is why this topic was posted. Most mesmers suck and worry about doing damage then do what they are meant to do. Any damage a mesmer does with their spells while doing their job is a plus, not a must.....

Ollj · Jun 02, 2005, 01:51 AM // 01:51

Just started a necro and a mesmer...
necros drain warriors life and mesmers drain elementarists energy (basicyally, in the end its more complex, chooseable and ballanced).

Chaos Storm is not much different from Firestorm, but it casts faster, drains Energy and does a little less damage.
Believe me, it is usefull.

There have to be more mesmers simply to kill all the elementars (and monks) that think lightning and healing/smithing to the exhaustion is good.
Ive killed many of them as mesmers with THE simple mesmer spell you all should fear, because it makes you looss ~100 health everytime you cast a spell.

anything that works in pve works in pvp and the other way around, youre just fighting against more intelligent enemies.

Creed · Jun 02, 2005, 09:20 AM // 09:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feli

Honestly... if you are putting it this way...
I can say a lot of similiar things about other classes too. I play a mesmer/war and a monk/ele in PvP.

A good mesmer is hard to come by... agree. But so is a good warrior, a good ranger, a good ele, a good necro and finally a good monk. Some players have not even the slightest bit of common logic on them.

They are like mindless creatures and yes, it is time to discriminate. I've played in many a two bad PuGs and now i am stating rules for my team. I'm telling no one how to play his/her character. What i demand is common sense and on top of that... the ability to think of the game as a... well... game.

Earlier in the game i used to wait until i get invited to a team, now i create them on my own. If my team is set i will say one single line "Any pro-gamer is now free to leave, as you are hampering your team with your attitde".
After that almost everytime atleast 2 ppl leave right away with some "****ing noob!!!!" comments. Funny isn't it? Especially funny when my team is doing hell of a lot better without them.
I don't have problems when someone is not GOOD in the meaning of skill and tells the team right away. I try to give him some duties that will get him learning and tell him that we are relying on him. I am not telling them what to do, but i tell them what i roughly expect to happen and don't care about how it happens. What is the thing you see? Most appreciate it as they get a special task and can concentrate on that. Instead of being told "****ing noob, use empathy!!!".

Now that is my complaint about it.
You want good mesmers and good monks? Do not ask for them to join your team in the following way "Party looking for experienced members!!!" as you will most likely get the 0815 standard moron who thinks he is uber and everyone else is inferior.
Have a look on your team and how it behaves while you are setting up the group one by one. A monk pops in and demands at least two other monks? Well, assume him uncapable of teamplay and kindly lead him out of the team. Kick. He might be right about the monk thingie, but popping in and trying to be the partys dominating part is just ruining morale.
A good team will take a while longer to set up than the random pug looking for experienced players. And most astonishingly it most probably won't be the standard 3 Monk Setup. But in the end it will work out great.

And no, i am no superior teamleader or anything. I just got fed up a bit on the typical PUG

/edit:
Sidenote:
I prefer new players above old ascended and professional players. Why? Because they are willed to adapt and willed to learn. The problem about all those "good" players is that they think they know how the game works and tell everyone else.
Dude, never tell me how to play my monk or you might drop out of my healing queue anytime soon

My point was simply to show it is harder to be a good mesmer, well maybe not harder, but less people are suited to this kind of a role. So you're eventually going to come to the point where you realize, while that warrior/monk might not be good at his class.. he can sure as hell survive and do some ok damage for some one who really does'nt suit that role. Can the same be said about a mesmer? Simple answer: no. If you're not good at being a mesmer, (or necro for that matter) it's gonna show fast.

Skill choice is crucial for mesmers. And i already pointed out how too many mesmers use the conjure phantasm skill. Way too many. Specially when you realize skills like: Soothing images/Sympathic visage. Can render a warrior usless, particularily when you realize it should be no difficult task for you to drain what little energy that warrior has leaving him with only basic physical attacks. Cast imagined burden on that unlucky warrior and watch your happy team elementalists laugh as they nuke him into the history books.

But a mesmer is not limited to that specific play style, he could.. cast: Clumsiness, use Illusionary weaponary, and simply pummel the warrior into submission allowing the warrior to maintain all his skills and adreniline simply as to lure him into attacking and letting clumsiness destroy him.

The same goes for casters and spells like: Guilt, Diversion, Backfire. Casters are self explanitory with mesmers really so no need to delve deeper.

You can cripple a necro or archer by casting the spirit shackles (lose 5energy per attack) and mind wrack (lose 75health if your energy hits 0) combo on them.

A mesmer has alot of options, using wastrels worry, on a warrior paired with any of his illusion run speed slow down spells and the warriors going to have problems. On a mage the same thing works using Wastrels worry / blackout. Continuesly cast this combo only stopping to use energy tap and spells like it to regain energy. Try the same combo except use fragility with wastrels worry.

If your backup class is Necro consider putting the skill rotting flesh into your skill bar (even if you have litterly no stats in death magic.) combined with shatter hex, cast rotting flesh on what ever is attacking your teams tank, then as the disease spreads to your tank shatter his hex causing 116 damage to anything near him.

The problem is alot of mesmers try to use direct damaging spells. As they start off with a spell like conjure phantasm and assume this is how it should be. Warriors rangers monks elementlists skills are much more straight forward.

What i'm trying to say is, a mesmer can attack straight forward and cause some damage, using spells like conjure phantasm. Reguardless of conjure phantasms reuse times and mana use, it should'nt play a part in many mesmers skill lists as i just pointed out there are much more usful tactics which virtually no mesmers use.

And as i said before if you find a full time mesmer who does these things tell him my guilds recruiting

The_difference · Jun 02, 2005, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaylee Ann

A mesmers purpose isn't to do damage. A mesmers purpose is to disrupt, prevent the other team from healing and doing damage, and be the biggest pain in the ass to healers and casters. When you try to do damage you defeat the entire purpose of being a mesmer. That is why this topic was posted. Most mesmers suck and worry about doing damage then do what they are meant to do. Any damage a mesmer does with their spells while doing their job is a plus, not a must.....

I think your rudely mistaken and only speaking from a domination point of view. thats the beauty of a mesmer. you think that there just made to attack energy and distort. Do your homework and then post the skills and possible damage with max illusion and weaponry. let me know how much damage you can come up with, then Ill let you know how I kick warrior butt all the time. and just a little hint: I dont stress about armor 1 bit.

Vindexus · Jun 02, 2005, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_difference

I think your rudely mistaken and only speaking from a domination point of view. thats the beauty of a mesmer. you think that there just made to attack energy and distort. Do your homework and then post the skills and possible damage with max illusion and weaponry. let me know how much damage you can come up with, then Ill let you know how I kick warrior butt all the time. and just a little hint: I dont stress about armor 1 bit.

Sure, Mesmers can do damage. But if you want to do damage, why go mesmer? Why not ele or warrior? I think he's right that mesmer should be shtting monks down.

As a side not, resmers rule. Me/Mo with fast casting and restore life ftw.

rii · Jun 02, 2005, 04:42 PM // 16:42

or fertile season in the space of a fireball -.-

You dont want to go ele or warrior, because their damage is protectable against. Nothing besides an enchantment removal can stop a iW-eer, and with speed boosts and high illusion, your hitting 50dps :S.

The_difference · Jun 02, 2005, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Just to let everyone know. At Mes/War and lets just say I attack at 14 damage per hit, I can deal up to 234 damage with just 10 energy.

Epinephrine · Jun 02, 2005, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creed

If your backup class is Necro consider putting the skill rotting flesh into your skill bar (even if you have litterly no stats in death magic.) combined with shatter hex, cast rotting flesh on what ever is attacking your teams tank, then as the disease spreads to your tank shatter his hex causing 116 damage to anything near him.

Disease is a condition, not a hex. You can't shatter it.

Almighty Bob · Jun 07, 2005, 05:03 AM // 05:03

To those who think that mesmers are not suited to dealing damage, let me just say this- A mesmer's role can be largely defined by their secondary profession. I am a Me/E, and I can deal damage very well. Granted, this is helped by being a secondary elementalist, but I only use two fire skills at the moment. Other than that I keep my res sig and domination skills. And I can definitely hold my own against just about anyone that attacks thinking I'm just a weak mesmer. For warriors, I use Empathy, Energy Burn, Immolation, and finish them off with Fire Storm and Chaos Storm once they close in for the kill, and they usually go down pretty quickly. As for casters, the strategy is similar, except rather than Empathy I use Backfire and Guilt for energy gain/skill disrupts, and rely less on my AOE skills, since it is far easier for casters to just sidestep out of it and keep casting.

That's just one build I use- if I want to focus on being anti-caster, I get rid of my fire skills and sub in inspiration skills for energy sapping skills and interrupts. With Ether Feast rounding out that skill set, I become much more self reliant, and can survive quite a bit more on my own, but my overall damage potential is lowered. What I'm basically trying to say is that mesmers can fill a lot of roles, and fill them well, if played smartly (that's the key). I'm always altering and refining my strategies (as any player of any class should), trying to find new ways to fill new roles effectively.

Xray · Jun 07, 2005, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Mesmers are very powerful and are always underrated. To me, they are better for disrupting enemies.

My mesmer build is Backfire, Diversion, Empathy, Blackout, Power Block (Elite). It can practically stop mages from doing their jobs for more than 30 secs. But one thing that people always forget is that mesmers must hex more than one enemy. For example, you don't wait for Backfire to go off before casting another hex on other enemies.

Darkest Dawn · Jun 07, 2005, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vindexus

Sure, Mesmers can do damage. But if you want to do damage, why go mesmer? Why not ele or warrior? I think he's right that mesmer should be shtting monks down.

As a side not, resmers rule. Me/Mo with fast casting and restore life ftw.

I agree that damage is not the best use of the mesmer. That said, I want to give you one possible response to why someone would want to have their mesmer a damage dealer.

First, let me qualify my explanation by stating that I am talking about using damage for intelligent reasons. Not simply becaue of lack of experience, or stupidity!

I think that the main reason so many mesmers get into the damage dealing mindset is if they were conditioned to do so in PvE. If you are a mesmer, and do a lot of soloing with the henchmen, or have a lot of bad experiences with human companions who are all trying to be their own uber leaders and lack teamwork, you will find yourself fighting for your life. This leads to the mindset that I must equip myself with damage causing spells to kill the enemies that harass me.

In the company of a good team, whether PvE OR PvP the mesmer can really flower as they are able to function in their own groove. But if not, then it's to arms, to arms, the enemy cometh, and I must defend myself!

shawn23233 · Jun 07, 2005, 07:23 PM // 19:23

A MESMER ON MESMERS

I think Mesmer as primary damage is kinda silly, and I also disagree with the idea that a secondary profession largely defines a mesmer - thinking like this comes from not knowing how to play (or not liking) the primary role of your class - and I have heard it said about every class. the mesmer is a difficult class to play (most recomend trying it only after you have mastered a few easier ones) so good ones may be a tough find, I dont know cause I have never looked LOL.

Mesmers are an interupt-stifle-energy tap class. If this doesnt excite you, dont play a mesmer. Regardless of what secondary you are planning, eventually you will find yourself expected to do these things primarily (in PvP anyway) they are incredably necessary and you are uniquely suited to do them. I think we all know (HoH experienced anyway) in 8v8 you are your primary the secondary role gives you one or two special spells to use that’s about it (an most don’t even take that many LOL)

I am a full time RPG developed mesmer and I do the HoH alot. Look me UP LOL Ava Cado. Also I have held the HoH briefly with a 5 monk team so they are not mutually exclusive, actually they would have been much weaker without me (or another stifler) and of course new this. Frankly, I find that once I have done a group with someone they almost always seek me out again, so I think once people try a mesmer (im a DOM stifle) and get a real one (not someone just trying out a build to see what its all about - or an elementalist in Mesmer clothing etc etc) they find it very hard to go with out them. (I can kill eles solo - make one monk useless indefenatly and even kill him solo if he makes a couple mistakes etc etc)

Truth is mesmers like mine (MES-NEC - stifle build) are a purely PvP class (maybe more so then any other in the game) we are awesome at PvP and somewhat superfluous in PvE. So I would say any group that avoids a mesmer is gimping themselves and really just has never grouped with a real one. Inexperience usually fixes itself. =)

InvaderGIR · Jun 08, 2005, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Most mesmers that I've played with tend to be quite useful, but not nearly exploiting their full potential. This is out of sheer unbiased-ness, but the Mesmer class is one of THE hardest to learn and master. Why? Because the skill selection you pick will become useless if you have no idea what you're up against. This is what turns away many people from becoming mesmers in the first place. They're definitely no noob class to play in my opinion.

But this is just my opinion...

Moltov joss · Jun 08, 2005, 10:16 AM // 10:16

ya backfire kinda annoying but not really......I'm saying that as a monk btw...but throw in energy taps while a caster or monk is backfired is just mean

Jaydo · Jun 08, 2005, 01:40 PM // 13:40

Slightly a follow up on some past statements:

Obviously mesmers aren't known for their damage dealing, otherwise they'd be considered nukers. but in agreement to someone else's statement, the mesmer's job is to be the biggest pain in the ass they can possibly be, and that's why I love them.

anyone who says that they die easily against rangers or warriors, obviously doesn't know the mesmer skill set well. Mesmers die easily when they get ganged up on, like any other class.

but yeah.. whenever a melee char starts attacking me, they leave soon, when they figure out that they can never hit me... at all. no joke. it's funny as hell.