Curse

funbun · Jun 02, 2005, 04:21 PM // 16:21

Good point I've noticed Elmos out healing monks time and time again. They realy should raise the energy level of monks.

Xavz · Jun 02, 2005, 04:42 PM // 16:42

I use Healing Seed + Glyph of Lesser Energy on my Mo/El - Seed is very viable on a primary Monk if you use it correctly.

If you're managing energy correctly, it's not that hard to keep up with a primary Monk, not to mention Mo/* using spam heals is far less vulnerable to Mesmer energy denial than is a E/Mo using larger heals.

nennafir · Jun 02, 2005, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by funbun

Good point I've noticed Elmos out healing monks time and time again. They realy should raise the energy level of monks.

Not really. The whole point of an elementalist is that it is the profession designed always to have energy. It should be viable to use this "always has energy" property with your sub-professions in a build as well. i.e., 14 energy storage and then 12 in some sub-profession attribute that has a lot of energy. Remember, this is an E/?? that is basically devoting ALL of their points to one specific quality of their ?? sub-profession. I do not see this as unbalanced. You are only able to do one thing with the build, after all.

The real problem you are getting at is that some of the professions primary attributes are not that useful, or are not as versatile, comparatively speaking. Let's be honest, Monks still rate very highly here. Other professions are still much more short changed (necromancers?).

Divine favor lets monks heal THEMSELVES better, as spells like divine healing, healing touch are not really viable or that useful for secondary monks. When my E/Mo is really getting pounded, the only viable self-heal strategy involves a dial-a-heal circuit of heals with heal area as one of the heals, and heal area will heal any enemy warriors next to you. Also, Divine favor lets you deal better with quick spike damage.

So I think primary monks are not gimped, I merely wanted to point out that an E/Mo with 12 healing attribute, 14 energy storage, and thus 84+ energy, can really basically keep on healing for forever with their energy and energy storage skills. Again, this is not unbalanced, as you have really spec'd yourself to be able to do nothing but heal. I merely wanted to disagree with the original poster on this threads claim that people should not accept secondary monks, as I think that is just silly.

Aug · Jun 02, 2005, 07:36 PM // 19:36

A Monk with high Divine Favor, Divine Boon, and Peace & Harmony can last plenty long, and heal far more efficiently and quickly than an El/Mo. The key is to NOT use spells like Heal Other, Heal Area, Healing Seed, etc. You need to pick a handful of 5 en, fast casting, spammable spells to take full advantage of Divine Favor & Divine Boon. And the best spells, from my experience, work out to be Protection Prayers, because they're faster casts than most Healing Prayers, and you're less likely to overheal.

El/Mos can heal, but I'd still take a Monk primary every time, if they're spec'd for Divine Boon.

funbun · Jun 02, 2005, 07:47 PM // 19:47

Aug I've found the same thing. I have done mre effecient healing using protection prayers in the manner which you describe. With Brute healing spell and Div Favor I was over healing like a mutha. Put to hihj powered healing monk in a group and they do nothing but step all over each other.

Div Favor and Boon with protection spell is plenty of healing for me. PLus the protection spells with the group additional armor/health point or whatever.

nennafir · Jun 02, 2005, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aug

A Monk with high Divine Favor, Divine Boon, and Peace & Harmony can last plenty long, and heal far more efficiently and quickly than an El/Mo. The key is to NOT use spells like Heal Other, Heal Area, Healing Seed, etc. You need to pick a handful of 5 en, fast casting, spammable spells to take full advantage of Divine Favor & Divine Boon. And the best spells, from my experience, work out to be Protection Prayers, because they're faster casts than most Healing Prayers, and you're less likely to overheal.

"far" more efficiently and quickly? Not sure about this. Heal other for me takes 10 energy and heals for 150. You are casting some 5 energy spell that might heal for 150 with all of the bonuses you get.

This means it is all equal. Why?

* I have TWICE the energy of you.
* With ether prodigy, I have TWICE the energy regen of you

So for spells of this type, I still come out equal to you.

When it comes to spells like heal party, the E/Mo kicks ass over the Mo/xx.

Where we fail is with spike damage healing and healing ourselves.

But to say that the primary monks are "far" better is simply false, as a numbers analysis shows. Each has their strengths and weaknesses, but are about equal overall.

Neo-LD · Jun 02, 2005, 10:22 PM // 22:22

but your spells only heal for like half that a monks do. If someone is getting nuked, there isnt squat that an ElMo can do to stop it.

JYX · Jun 03, 2005, 08:34 AM // 08:34

Not half. If someone's getting nuked? Drop a healing seed for 25 health every time someone touches this guy. Drop a protective spirit for protection. Drop a Healing Breeze for 160 health. Drop a Heal Other for 151 health. Drop a Word of Healing for 150 health. If things are really going downhill and he's getting focused on, drop an infuse health. Then just start topping up with heal others.

Do all this in 5.75 seconds. A monk primary cannot do all this. Why not? It costs 60 energy to do and then more to sustain. An ele/mo with energy storage can have 96 energy.

It is in these situations where an ele/mo really shines. In dealing with focus, people getting nuked, he can put out more healing in a shorter space of time than the monk ever can. After he runs out of his stored energy, theres no way that he can compete with a monk for healing due to divine favor and boon.

Note that I am not suggesting you use this to deal with spike damage, in this situation two spells dictate whether the person lives or dies, the extra healing a monk can bring in favor and boon will really help. However, for focus, and as my illustrious friend states "someone getting nuked" the ele/mo will be able to outheal a monk for a certain amount of time. Using one is a risk, no doubt. You are betting that the enemy lets up before this guy runs out of energy, because when he burns through his energy the heals go downhill really quick. Although he can use ether prodigy to prop himself up for a while longer, this time where he is useful is still very finite.

Quote:

A Monk with high Divine Favor, Divine Boon, and Peace & Harmony can last plenty long, and heal far more efficiently and quickly than an El/Mo.

efficiently? Most definately yes the monk will be much more efficient. Quickly? No, thats the entire point here.

nennafir · Jun 03, 2005, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Everous

Although he can use ether prodigy to prop himself up for a while longer, this time where he is useful is still very finite.

First, you mentioned using word of healing above, and that will have to go if you use ether prodigy.

However, I want to say that ether prodigy basically lasts forever and makes you have twice the enrgy regen of a normal monk. I mean with high energy storage attribute, it lasts about 30 secs. It only costs 5 energy, takes 1 sec to cast. If someone removes it as an enchantment from you, the recast time is only 5 secs.

Yes, it causes a little exhaustion, but not enough to ever matter even in really, really, really long fights. So I find the statement that saying the "time where he is useful is still very finite" a little puzzling.

You run your energy to almost nothing, then you kick in ether prodigy and just keep using it whenever it runs out. This gives you double the energy regen you would normally have, and allows you to more or less repeat 2 sec cast 15 energy spells with only minor pauses or 1 sec cast 10 energy spells. Has the exhaustion ever really effected you and made it more finite? Even in fights lasting 10 mins with no break at all from casting, the exhaustion is never an issue. I am just curious here.

I still would like some advice on how an E/Mo is supposed to heal THEMSELVES when they are getting nuked. All of your good options are taken away here: heal other, healing seed can't be used. Divine healing and healing touch not that great because of no divine favor. There's just heal area, orison of healing, and healing breeze. Of these, heal area is the only one that packs a punch.

My pvp experience as a heal spec'd E/Mo is that as long as there is me and another monk and the other team is attacking the monk, I can keep him healed without ever running dry with prodigy. Even after he announces to the team that he is without mana, I can still keep piling on the heals and keep him alive. BUT if the other team wises up and realizes that I am doing healing and comes after me, I am going down quickly. Any advice?

JoDiamonds · Jun 03, 2005, 09:16 PM // 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by buggsy

IF you find a primary monk using signet of devotion, he sucks. You dont gain any benefit from divine using signets.

Unless, of course, that signet is tied to Divine Favor, such as Signet of Devotion. Turns out this MIGHT be relevant.

If you find a secondary monk using signet of devotion, THEN you know he's a bit confused.

Eclair · Jun 03, 2005, 11:29 PM // 23:29

The monk could also be a protector monk with high divine favor and protection prayers, and therefore the only direct healing spell he/she has is signet of devotion =P

funbun · Jun 04, 2005, 12:16 AM // 00:16

Don't forget Divine Boon. That turn all protection spells into healing spells

Neo-LD · Jun 04, 2005, 03:37 AM // 03:37

An ElMo may have more mana than a primary monk, but thats about it.

You cannot deny that primary monks simply heal more per spell. Restricting themselves to low-cost spells (all the good ones only cost 5 or 0 anyways) they wont run out of mana without the interference of a mesmer.

Healing more per spell is 10x more important than the ability to spam everywehere in PvP. People get killed by nukes, not attrition.

Secondly, ElMos cannot effectively use the prot line. Monks can. Mind you, the prot line is just as good as the healing line OR BETTER for PvP, but thats another discussion.

Lastly, you forget that monk primaries can have a second class too. An intelligent Mo/N that brings Offering of Blood will actually have MORE mana than an ElMo, since repeated castings of that >>> a big max mana pool. Kinda sucks that a monk primary can out-spam your precious ElMo, huh?

JoDiamonds · Jun 04, 2005, 06:34 AM // 06:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

An ElMo may have more mana than a primary monk, but thats about it.

You cannot deny that primary monks simply heal more per spell. Restricting themselves to low-cost spells (all the good ones only cost 5 or 0 anyways) they wont run out of mana without the interference of a mesmer.

Healing more per spell is 10x more important than the ability to spam everywehere in PvP. People get killed by nukes, not attrition.

Secondly, ElMos cannot effectively use the prot line. Monks can. Mind you, the prot line is just as good as the healing line OR BETTER for PvP, but thats another discussion.

Lastly, you forget that monk primaries can have a second class too. An intelligent Mo/N that brings Offering of Blood will actually have MORE mana than an ElMo, since repeated castings of that >>> a big max mana pool. Kinda sucks that a monk primary can out-spam your precious ElMo, huh?

Man, why are you making this a "me vs. you" discussion? People aren't going around saying your character sucks, why are you?

Also, you make some strange statements. Go play as an ElMo for a while. It's informative.

As many, many people have said, both primary monks and ElMos can make fine healers. No need to get defensive about either one.

JYX · Jun 04, 2005, 11:18 AM // 11:18

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