Curse

Zeru · Jun 10, 2005, 06:21 PM // 18:21

There is a time when a W/E could be target calling and that's if he's a hammer/earth war. granted it is more effective to have the */N call because of Rend but in this case you only want to go when the hammer war has his knockdown/aftershock combo ready, which is a very nice opener.

Tellani Artini · Jun 10, 2005, 08:39 PM // 20:39

It's been my experience that conditions are not a problem against an organized team with decent monks. Mend ailment recharges fast enough to be outright spammed. For this reason I think sword warriors might want to put down sever artery/gash and go for more adrenaline based power attacks and anti-stance/evasion energy based attacks. In fact, I think warriors should drop their swords for axes (disrupting chop) or hammers (stonefist gauntlets) which can't be shrugged off as easily as I shrug off sword warriors when I'm playing as a monk. I'm sure it's possible to be an effective offensive swordsman, but it think axes and hammers are much more effective at locking down casters, and therefore killing monks. I won't claim to be an expert on this, but I suggest trying axe or hammer if you're feeling impotent with a sword.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shawn23233

I think this will become like rangers with frozen soil to me now. If you have it your welcome to come, if not sorry.

You should try playing with better rangers. Frozen soil isn't the only ritual that helps an organized team. Don't let a few amateur rangers form your opinion on the entire profession. But there are plenty of other "useless ranger" threads for you to express yourself in.

Jia Xu · Jun 10, 2005, 10:25 PM // 22:25

I dislike the idea that Warriors are useless in PvP... warriors made for PvE however, SUCK big time in PvP. Think of it this way. In PvP, a heavily armoured target just wont get attacked until its the only target left. So, why have defense at the loss of offense when you've got all that shiny armour? Hence i took W/Mo. My strength of Honor boosts my melee attacks no end, and it's still physical damage, so my damage still triggers my necro allies evil skills, such as barbs and mark of pain. to keep your target from getting away, use a snare, or improve your speed. this can be done either by using a warrior snare (problem is, you have to melee them first) or getting a friend to do it (much easier- just be friends with your mesmer or ele etc.). To speed yourself up, a W/E has the choice of armour of mist, which although improves your armour, does improve your speed as well so you can run down fleeing enemies. Also note, that fleeing enemies are automatically hit for criticals. Cue the executioner's strike in the back, or cleave for that matter (or final thrust if you are one of those silly sword users j/k) Warriors can be a tremendous damage dealing source in PvP on the same damage per minute as elementalists (although they rule the roost in terms of 10 second burst damage). you just have to sacrifice any thought of defensive or healing ability and go for their throat. It works, as many GvG warrior victims can attest.

Khift · Jun 10, 2005, 11:47 PM // 23:47

I think I will go with a hammer/earth/strength "knock-lock" build now. I know another guy in my guild goes hammer/smite/strength with the same concept, and so I do believe that the two of us could render a target completely useless indefinitely. Now, to start working on a build. (Or two, as it seems.)

Thanks a ton, guys. You've restored my faith in Warriors.

Khift · Jun 11, 2005, 04:51 AM // 04:51

Here's the build as it stands:

W/Mo
12 (10+2) Strength
12 (11+1) Hammer Mastery
10 Smiting Prayers

- Scourge Healing
- Frenzy
- "For Great Justice!"
- Devastating Hammer {E}
- Holy Strike
- Heavy Blow
- Bull's Strike
- Griffin's Sweep

W/E
12 (10+2) Strength
12 (11+1) Hammer Mastery
10 Earth Magic

- Ward Against Foes
- Frenzy
- "For Great Justice!"
- Devastating Hammer {E}
- Aftershock
- Heavy Blow
- Bull's Strike
- Wild Blow

Attack Plan

W/Mo
1. Scourge Healing
2. Frenzy
3. "For Great Justice!"
4. Attack until Devastating Hammer is charged
5. (pause)
6. Devastating Hammer
7. Holy Strike
8. Heavy Blow
9. Repeat steps 2-8, with step 7 being used every other run and step 3 being used once every three runs, and Scourge Healing being recast whenever Ward Against Melee is.

W/E
1. Ward Against Melee
2. Frenzy.
3. "For Great Justice!"
4. Attack Until Devastating Hammer is charged
5. Devastating Hammer
6. (pause)
7. Heavy Blow
8. Aftershock
9. Repeat steps 2-8, with step 7 being used every other run and step 3 being used once every three runs, and Ward Against Melee being recast whenever it recharges.

The concept: Scourge Healing makes healing the target a dangerous idea, Ward Against Melee keeps the target from getting any ideas of running away. Frenzy and "For Great Justice!" help charge the vital adrenaline needed to fuel Devastating Blow and Heavy Blow, which are used in succession. Holy Strike and Aftershock do large chunks of damage, have the same mana cost and the same recharge time, and are used whenever they're charged AND the other person is using Heavy Blow. Bull's Strike is used just after the last Heavy Blow is used, also in succession, but only if the target is running. It might also come in use just before the first Devastating Blow is used, depending upon how fast we really do gain adrenaline. Wild Blow is used any time when it's discovered that the opponent is blocking or evading attacks and will end any stance they're using, stopping any blocks (since those are always caused by stances) though not all evades (since some of those are enchantment based), so Griffin's Sweep is used just in case.

Depending on how mana works with this dual build, we might have to sub out Aftershock and Holy Strike for something less mana intensive.

As for equipment, Platemail helmet, breastplate, leggings, Knight's boots, Stonefist gauntlets, and a hammer with max damage and a Zealous grip. A shield would be nice, but will probably end up being sacrificed for a focus item to help feed Aftershock and Holy Strike.

I do believe that this will be a -REAL- bitch to fight against. Two powerful, medium DPS hammer warrior's constantly knocking your monk on his ass is not something to be sneezed at. It would, however, severely benefit from a ranged snare like Pin Down, especially in the beginning stages of the lock. Pin Down + Ward Against Foes + Bull's Strike = 75% movement + Knockdown = Not going anywhere. But we've gotta be able to catch them first.

What do you guys think? Anything I'm missing?

Kishin · Jun 11, 2005, 05:27 AM // 05:27

Could throw in Strength of Honor on the War/Mo and have him put that up for continous extra damage. (+7 with that level of smiting prayers). If so, I'd probably replace Griffon's Sweep with it.

this_barb · Jun 11, 2005, 06:29 AM // 06:29

earth, air + water, and fire are all good secondaries for a w/e

each has its own strength

Hector Illiad · Jun 11, 2005, 12:51 PM // 12:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darc.Syde

this makes me laugh..

that begs the question, if a warrior isnt a damage dealer, what is it?

In my opinion a Warrior is a Sheild/Damage Dealer. He protects your group by taking in massive amounts of damage, but yet, while fighting the Warrior puts out a good amount of damage according to the Build. Warriors can be Defense, Offense, Knockdown, whatever you choose it to be.

Executioner · Jun 11, 2005, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khift

Here's the build as it stands:

What do you guys think? Anything I'm missing?

Well in my oppinion i would swap frenzy for flurry or beserker stance, i believe the stance is the best, yeah its got a high recharge time, but if you think about it, you start the stance it runs for 9+ sec, then you run through your attack skills timeing them, about 10 sec, so the recharge time is like 10 sec's really and your ready to go again, one of the reasons i like the stance so much is its bonus to gain adrenaline, frenzy on the down side is the double damage you take which not only causes problems for you but for your healing monks as well.

Secondly i would take a rez signet or a rez for the w/mo, these are of upmost importance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hector Illiad

In my opinion a Warrior is a Sheild/Damage Dealer. He protects your group by taking in massive amounts of damage, but yet, while fighting the Warrior puts out a good amount of damage according to the Build. Warriors can be Defense, Offense, Knockdown, whatever you choose it to be.

The problems i see in being a total damage dealer and taking massive amounts of damage, is that it rarely happens.. 90% of the time your the last to be attacked, or your only dealing your full damage quota to unwarded targets.

But these are only my oppinions, the only true way to find out is to test your builds, if you like them use them !!

Corack · Jun 11, 2005, 03:28 PM // 15:28

If you want the fastest way to gain adrenaline just use battle rage nothing even comes close to the amout of adrenaline it charges. My set up is uses it and usually get around 35-40 dps on soft targets.

this is what I use

Penetrating Blow
Executioner's Strike
Swift Chop
Disrupting Chop
Battle Rage
Res Sig
Diversion
Backfire

Khift · Jun 11, 2005, 03:46 PM // 15:46

Executioner:

Frenzy was chosen over Berserker Stance because Frenzy can be kept up indefinitely whereas Berserker Stance can only be active 1/3rd of the time. This is important, seeing as the goal of the build is to keep someone down indefinitely.

Frenzy was chosen over Flurry for a couple of important reasons. First, keeping Flurry up indefinitely costs 1 energy per second, whereas keeping Frenzy up indefinitely costs 5/8ths of an energy per second. When considering the tiny warrior energy pool and regeneration capabilities, that is a huge difference. Second, I have been recommended to throw all defense to the wind -- after all, who is going to target the warrior before they target the monk? Third, if the warrior pair does manage to be targetted, Balthazar's Aura would be an ideal replacement for Frenzy. It'd have to be cast from someone outside of the pair, but I think it would be a smart idea to have a smiting monk buffing the pair with Judges Insight and Strength of Honor anyways. Fourth, Frenzy does more damage than Flurry. Fifth, Sausaletus Rex has repeatedly recommended warrior's to take Frenzy over Flurry, and I'd like to try his advice here.

I was not thinking about resurrect. Thanks for pointing that out. I do think that would serve as a better 8th slot than Griffin's Sweep.

Thanks for the input again.

Dreamsmith · Jun 11, 2005, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Executioner

The problems i see in being a total damage dealer and taking massive amounts of damage, is that it rarely happens.. 90% of the time your the last to be attacked...

Which is why Frenzy is a far, far better choice than either Flurry or Berserker Stance. 90% of the time, it's extra damage with no downside at all. So you don't use it that 10% of the time that you are under attack -- that's much better efficiency than Berserker's...

CAT · Jun 11, 2005, 04:30 PM // 16:30

W/E use hammer, aftershock and earthquake. Works wonders