Curse

Akshara · Jun 11, 2005, 04:13 AM // 04:13

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Warriors shouldn't pull though, that's not their job, nor should they call.

In general, I agree with this as well. I think well-played rangers or elementalists are the best callers and pullers, with a mesmer and necro close behind. There is a time when a warrior can pull effectively however, most notably when the creatures are serious melee dealers, since the warrior can grab their focus and take the brunt of the damage. I sometimes like to break off (with consensus) and approach a mob from a little different angle than the obvious one. This can make the creatures swarm me instead of rushing the party, allowing the team to do their work.

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but do you see the way that group that was nicely bunched spread out as it ran? That's a wasted AoE.

Casting a good AoE first is a good strategy, and I wish it happened more often in the groups I'm in. My comments about rangers/elementalists staying behind the warriors was in regard to those who like to melee and tank, instead of use effective AoE attacks. When a non-tank rushes ahead and pulls aggro toward them, it's not effective and puts a lot of strain on the healer to keep them alive. I'm all for ranged party members who go ahead and use a ranged or AoE spell first, but then move behind the warrior when they're finished. That rarely if ever happens though.

I do like to take the aggro, and will sometimes attack a creature then switch to another for a second, and then another, which pulls them close together rather than spread apart because they usually follow me when they are attacking and I move. I like to do this to both setup a close group for AoE spellcasters, as well to use Mark of Pain effectively, which does shadow damage to everyone around the one I'm attacking with my axe. Taking on monsters one at a time is never as effective as taking a bunch down at once, target calling or not.

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if you get the guy who attacked the monk, it means I don't have to call a hit on that target, pulling everyone's fire back to save Monk-boy and preserve healing for the group.

Yes, a good warrior in the situation you describe of AoE attacking first should hold back for a second and see where the mob is headed, then try to intercept them before getting there. Even when they do lead ahead, they should use their range meter to get the creatures' attention and then hang there, rather than just rush toward them, especially if they are standing in a good defensive position, or one which bottlenecks the mob's progress.

When there are more than one or two other warriors in a party, what I'll usually do is hang toward the back and use sprint to intercept the stragglers that flew around the front line. Seems to me that they tend to go for either the monk or the AoE elementalist first in those cases, and both are important to protect and keep the aggro off of. Some creatures won't turn away from their target until right before they are about to drop, so speed pummelling them from behind can often get them to turn around when it matters most.

Akshara · Jun 11, 2005, 04:18 AM // 04:18

I'd like to share a story to illustrate some of my points, and to respond to this whole "warriors are simply meat shields, not damage dealers" mentality...

The other night I was in a party with a typical rush-in warrior, two AoE elementalists, a necro and a healing monk, all lvl 15 or higher. We were trying to do the quest that goes from Kryta into the Maguuma Jungle, some kind of message quest where there are a lot of those flying squid-like creatures that mess with energy. The eles were in charge, calling targets and leading with AoE attacks constantly. No problem, I went with it and tried to keep the monk alive.

We got pummeled at the same spot (the log where we had to drop the book) and the entire party died several times, with the monk and I as the last ones standing each time. When I tried to suggest a different approach because the creatures we were dealing with didn't effect adrenaline, nobody was interested and continued to do the AoE spam thing and just rush in, pulling the aggro onto them first and calling the mobs down upon us, and simply ignoring that the creatures messed with everyone's energy. After the fourth attempt, everyone just dropped the group and left except for me and the healing monk, and a couple even made comments about the tanks and the healer sucking.

Well, the monk and I decided to keep going with just the two of us and a severe death penalty, with him having no damage skills and I having no healing skills at all. We used strategic pulling, tactics and unusual approaches rather than taking them head on. We not only killed the mobs that the group couldn't handle, but completed the quest and got well into the Maguuma Jungle. It took us a lot longer to finish that last third as a duo than the first two-thirds with the party, but we had a lot of fun doing it together, since it forced us to approach each encounter with thought and patience. We would have made it to the next town, but the monk's computer started acting screwy and he had to drop. I tried making it alone, but got overwhelmed without any self-healing.

My point is that with two high level AoE eles running the show and leading all of the attacks, the party was disorganized and ineffective under that situation. Sometimes a strategy that works under one circumstance may be ineffective in another one. That the monk and I alone were able to complete the quest without the party, says something regarding the capabilites of a warrior as the main damage dealer under certain situations. We aren't just meat shields all the time.

GranDeWun · Jun 12, 2005, 12:39 PM // 12:39

Don't think this was mentioned:
As a warrior, I carry my own longbow for pulling. Does little/no damage, but works great.

Tellani Artini · Jun 12, 2005, 12:47 PM // 12:47

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Originally Posted by Akshara

Well, the monk and I decided to keep going with just the two of us and a severe death penalty, with him having no damage skills and I having no healing skills at all. We used strategic pulling, tactics and unusual approaches rather than taking them head on. We not only killed the mobs that the group couldn't handle, but completed the quest and got well into the Maguuma Jungle.

Have seen this happen before; it works so well because the stormys have less targets to phantasm (which is their primary damage source), therefore there are less people to heal

piercehead · Jun 13, 2005, 12:40 PM // 12:40

....or you can just wait for that first large group of Wind Riders to pass by....