Curse

ComMan · Jun 04, 2005, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Wow....this is a lot of text.

For the record: I have seen a group looking for an Ranger ONCE, but it was not for the Team arena. It was for the ascention mission with the monk boss, which is odd because other classes have better versions of Distracting Shot.

Poison seems to be very...not good against decent PVP teams becase they carry stuff like Mend Ailment and Plague Touch. I don't know. I like poison, it just seems to work against my own team more often than I'd like.

I played an anti-caster R/Me for a long while, but two things annoy me about that setup.

Number 1: you have NO defense from warriors. You can't interrupt their spells, can't backfire them, can't outdamage them. You can use Whirling Defense to cast Troll Ungent on yourself and try to last until someone saves you, but that's about it.

Number 2: There is nothing that an R/Me can do that that an Me/anything can't do better.

But of course, since my first post was "I'm the worst ranger ever," you probably shouldn't listen to me.

ElevenBravo · Jun 04, 2005, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Ranger is about to be the new Elem replacment. So you'll be needed more and more to spam spirits.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=18269

Kishin · Jun 06, 2005, 06:52 AM // 06:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElevenBravo

Ranger is about to be the new Elem replacment. So you'll be needed more and more to spam spirits.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=18269

Way to cry on every Ranger related thread because you lost in the HoH to something that wasn't the perenially accepted Air Elem spike damage team build.

Axehilt · Jun 06, 2005, 10:22 AM // 10:22

It's kinda sad that ElevenBravo linked to his ranger thread. Most of the thread seemed to be telling him to stop whining just because a guild used a solid build that people weren't used to seeing.

A strategy being strong doesn't inherently mean it's overpowered. I'm tired of the classic newbie knee-jerk attitude, "It beat me so it's obviously overpowered!".

It's possible the Ranger build is overpowered. It's more likely that they were simply higher skilled players with a superior build to whatever rabble you were playing with at the time.

I dunno - I find it easier to believe that some lesser-skilled player lost in HoH and ran to compain on the forums. I've seen it happen in tons of other games.

ElevenBravo · Jun 06, 2005, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kishin

Way to cry on every Ranger related thread because you lost in the HoH to something that wasn't the perenially accepted Air Elem spike damage team build.

That would be a good point IF we used a Elem heavy build. We are lucky to get even 1 air elem.

delfin42 · Jun 06, 2005, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComMan

I played an anti-caster R/Me for a long while, but two things annoy me about that setup.

Number 1: you have NO defense from warriors. You can't interrupt their spells, can't backfire them, can't outdamage them. You can use Whirling Defense to cast Troll Ungent on yourself and try to last until someone saves you, but that's about it.

If you're set up as an anti-caster R/Me, then yeah, you'll be weaker against melee. It's difficult to make a build that has decent DPS, can stifle a caster AND deal with axes in your face all at once.

But what class can do all of that easily and effectively?

If you want to focus your build against melee, Distracting Shot is still an interrupt. Whirling Defense, Lightning Reflexes, Throw Dirt, Dodge, Dust Trap and Escape help you avoid damage. Pin Down and Barbed/Spike Trap limit Warriors' mobility, and Storm Chaser and Dodge help you get away. And that's just on the Ranger side; toss in Physical Resistance, Empathy, Spirit Shackles, Soothing Images, Imagined Burden, Illusionary Weaponry, Ineptitude, Clumsiness... mix and match all of the above as needed to find eight that are effective.

That said, I nearly fell over last night when a group at Thunderhead Keep was shouting "Group looking for Rangers." I had to join just to find out what made us so attractive all of a sudden...

shawn23233 · Jun 06, 2005, 02:47 PM // 14:47

Hang in there, you are needed whether the newbs know it or not. I play mezz so I am "kinda" like you, that is a group will only want one of us, but with rezz prevention and interupt skills, ranger are a wonderful addition to nearly any HoH group. Especially those that rely on endurence instead of damage (monk heavy groups).

Distracting Shot and Frozen Ground absolute necessity. As a RANGER dont even try to group HoH without these two spells.

Bazooka · Jun 06, 2005, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Dont get me wrong, any profession is viable in PvP ...in an coordinated team.

But in a random pickup group where you dont know anybody and you can only HOPE that people will work as a team? You're better off with any other profession than a ranger.
The class itself requires too much skill, and the other people in the group have to know and WANT to work with that ranger.

So when at the Tombs choosing players for your PUG...never bring a ranger to a gunfight

Eet GnomeSmasher · Jun 06, 2005, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minwanabi

You save them next to no energy, it would require one hex removal, one condition removal, whatever, which they'll probably be doing anyways. Oh, and by the time a ranger is targeted as a focus target, the monks are dead anyways, that's the reason self heals are terrible. At the point where they're necessary, the battle is already lost for you.

I've seen your fellow IQ guild member's theory on PVP on the other forums regarding Rangers. While you guys may be successful you dont know it all. Your whole strategy is complete Monk reliance. Hex removal, healing, melee avoidance, etc etc, are all dependant on the Monk. Well, that's YOUR strategy but there's strategies where the team still relies on each other but not so heavily on just one class.

Self heals can take a lot of pressure off the Monks if done right. Too much Monk reliance isn't right or wrong but like you said, in your case if the Monks are dead, the battle is lost for you because of your heavy reliance on them.

Tellani Artini · Jun 07, 2005, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Ever since I stopped bringing unguent and whirling def to tombs, I've never been in a situation where I would need them. Throw dirt is still an option, because it can be used to defend monks, and I pretty much always get half recharge time for it with the folks I play with. Now I've got more free skill slots than I know what to do with.

I suggest at least trying to go without self-heals and defense. After all, when I see another ranger using troll unguent, he might as well have a big "distracting shot me!" sign over his head.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Jun 07, 2005, 12:56 AM // 00:56

That is why you use a stance before you use Unguent so that it doesnt get interrupted. And using your theory, no one is going to attack the ranger using Unguent anyway.

Tellani Artini · Jun 07, 2005, 04:48 AM // 04:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

That is why you use a stance before you use Unguent so that it doesnt get interrupted. And using your theory, no one is going to attack the ranger using Unguent anyway.

That's the thing, the ranger never NEEDS to use unguent until everyone else is dead, because he's been ignored. Then he makes a desperate attempt to save his own life with whirling defense and troll unguent, at which point I hit him with crippling shot (which can't be blocked or evaded) and watch him die a few seconds after whirling defense ends.

Zyuu · Jun 07, 2005, 04:59 AM // 04:59

crippling shot :/

unguent is crap for tombs also, whirling defense can rarely have a use

Z

drowningfish999 · Jun 07, 2005, 06:08 PM // 18:08

I use a R/N and I use absolutely no healing spells except for Insidous Parsite(I think thats what its called). If I'm low on health, I'll either just back off or use pin down on whoevers attacking me and run.

Dred Skullord · Jun 08, 2005, 09:23 PM // 21:23

The theme of this thread is that PvP groups don't want rangers. Good. Let popular perception cripple those teams. A month ago, there were dozens of threads explaining how great fire magic can be in PvP and why every group should have a Necro. I still laugh when I go against some area effect fire elementalist.

I would take a ranger any day over an elementalist or necro. The rangers best job is to disrupt and then kill.

Ucilius Winkwalker · Jun 11, 2005, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soul Monarch

Nope, but there are usually more Rangers than anything else, so most groups fill that slot faster than you can say "Poopty Puepty Pants-ss."

Not true, it is very easy to test this, hold down your ctrl key and see the people who are grouped, their names are in deeper blue color if you don't know. Then click on their names to see their classes, and most of the time you see monk/warrior/elementalist, then comes mesmers, and necro, lastly you see rangers that are very few.

Zyuu · Jun 12, 2005, 06:05 AM // 06:05

fire magic has its place in tombs pvp, its not be all end all, but neither is air, earth or water, so not sure what u are getting at

making generalizations like ill take a ranger over such and such profession 100% of the time is either exaggeration or ignorance as well.. all professions do things differently, and it depends on the team build design as to which would better fill a slot

Z

Darc.Syde · Jun 12, 2005, 06:32 AM // 06:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

I've seen your fellow IQ guild member's theory on PVP on the other forums regarding Rangers. While you guys may be successful you dont know it all. Your whole strategy is complete Monk reliance. Hex removal, healing, melee avoidance, etc etc, are all dependant on the Monk. Well, that's YOUR strategy but there's strategies where the team still relies on each other but not so heavily on just one class.

Self heals can take a lot of pressure off the Monks if done right. Too much Monk reliance isn't right or wrong but like you said, in your case if the Monks are dead, the battle is lost for you because of your heavy reliance on them.

self heals prevent you from doing your job on the team. in 8v8, why does a damage dealer need to heal when it has 3 monks covering it? it's noobish...

you see warrior/monks packing healing breeze and healing hands, its dumb; when they get the chance to use these 2 spells, their entire team is dead. same with troll, some enemy monk is so close to being dead and you stop for 3 seconds to cast troll, you just F*d it up for your team...

3 monks > self heal.

Aaaaagh · Jun 12, 2005, 08:13 AM // 08:13

What's a ranger?

chowmien · Jun 13, 2005, 02:27 AM // 02:27

a class that's about to eat you alive.