Curse

lawman · Jun 16, 2005, 12:03 AM // 00:03

I keep reading people's comments that the best conjure (element) to use is Lightning? What makes it so much better than the other ones? I mean.. if only using Conjure Lightning, you don't gain any armor penetration bonuses.

Red Locust · Jun 16, 2005, 12:07 AM // 00:07

It's actually quite bad right now since pretty much every elementalist is wearing aeromancer armor with +AL to lightning, so you're gonna be doing less damage. And no, lightning does not have an inherent armor penetration, the armor penetration is merely added on to most lightning spells.

Vermilion Okeanos · Jun 16, 2005, 01:25 AM // 01:25

conjur flame = conjur lightning = conjur ice = conjur i wish there is an earth = conjur flame...

there are no difference except the elements advantage/disadvantage on the conjur...

Winterclaw · Jun 16, 2005, 03:25 AM // 03:25

If you want to use lightning weapons, conjure lightning is the way to go. If you are using a dragon sword or want to go an ice root, choose another conjure.

MrWho · Jun 16, 2005, 10:23 AM // 10:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

If you want to use lightning weapons, conjure lightning is the way to go. If you are using a dragon sword or want to go an ice root, choose another conjure.

That's not possible. All dragon swords deal fire damage, and to use a conjure you need to be dealing the same damage as the conjure type. Icy Dragon Sword = non-existant, so conjure frost for dragon swords = non-existant.

_jew

Myodato · Jun 16, 2005, 10:53 AM // 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrJew

That's not possible. All dragon swords deal fire damage, and to use a conjure you need to be dealing the same damage as the conjure type. Icy Dragon Sword = non-existant, so conjure frost for dragon swords = non-existant.

In your case, I would choose Conjure Reading Skills. I read Winterclaw saying 'pick the conjure to match your weapon', not sure what you read.

Winterclaw · Jun 16, 2005, 03:46 PM // 15:46

Myodato got it: it's about matching the spell to your weapons, skills, and style. If you are an air mage, you need to find conjure lightning and a shocking mod, don't try to grab conjure fire and pick a fiery weapon. Likewise, if you are a hydromancer, conjure ice is the way to go.

I mentioned dragon swords because they were popular and dealt one of the three types of damages necessary for a conjure spell. I'd like it if there were icy dragon swords, but that is another post.

Jun 16, 2005, 06:47 PM // 18:47

In terms of DPS the conjures are based on armor resistances so it doesn't make a difference.

In terms of combinations, Conjure Lightning is the best of them all, and Conjure Flame is next.

MrWho · Jun 16, 2005, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Myodato got it: it's about matching the spell to your weapons, skills, and style. If you are an air mage, you need to find conjure lightning and a shocking mod, don't try to grab conjure fire and pick a fiery weapon. Likewise, if you are a hydromancer, conjure ice is the way to go.

I mentioned dragon swords because they were popular and dealt one of the three types of damages necessary for a conjure spell. I'd like it if there were icy dragon swords, but that is another post.

My mistake on the reading, it was ~3:30 in the morning

. Thought you were saying that if you want to use a dragon sword and go an ice route, use conjure frost.

No hard feelings

_jew

Sovetskeey · Jun 16, 2005, 09:56 PM // 21:56

I'd love to use Conjure Fire for a W/E but there aren't any other decent low-cost spells for fire. Just gonna buy a Shocking Axe Haft and call it a day

Which reminds me I just finished Elementalist's Path last night and have to go change.

Red Locust · Jun 16, 2005, 10:01 PM // 22:01

what's so good about conjure lightning?

Kishin · Jun 16, 2005, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Locust

what's so good about conjure lightning?

Less things have electricity resistance than the other two. If there was a Conjure Earth, however, that would probably be the best. I can never decide, personally, whether Flame is better than Frost, given the resistances of things.
I'd trust BlackAce's judgment on this, though, given the fact that he's been around far longer and most assuredly possesses a larger knowledge base than I do.

Red Locust · Jun 17, 2005, 05:45 AM // 05:45

Everybody nowadays is wearing armor with + AL to lightning (elementalists, in particular). I fail to see why lightning damage would be preferred. Maybe in PvE, where most enemies aren't too protected vs. lightning, but certainly not in PvP.

Keure · Jun 17, 2005, 06:11 AM // 06:11

You should take a look at some of the skills that onHit lightning.

edit: Grr, fine, wasn't clear enough. I was referring to those skills whose effects are triggered by lightning damage (onHit).

Thunderclap is probably the best one, though I see some "annoyance factor" with Glimmering Mark. That, and Conjure Lightning allows damage against people in Iron Mist (a stupidly small advantage, sure). Mark of Rodgort doesn't compare.

Jun 17, 2005, 06:30 AM // 06:30

Dont worry about casting spells

CL and CF for Thunderclap and Mark of Rodgort. Of course MoR is really crappy, but TC is decent.

Red Locust · Jun 17, 2005, 06:41 AM // 06:41

Plain fire/air wands trigger on-hit spells like thunderclap and mark of rodgort, since they do fire/lightning damage, respectively. The sole purpose of conjure elements is to add damage to wand attacks, and lightning would be resisted the most. Of course you're limited by your attribute points and what spells your build is using, but a lot of people are running around with lightning protection and mantra of lightning and whatnot, so conjure lightning would be the worst choice.

Keure · Jun 17, 2005, 07:03 AM // 07:03

If you're going to spend time plinking someone with a wand, or using an elemental weapon with an R/E or W/E you may as well get some extra damage out of it, since you cannot Conjure Frost with, say, a lightning weapon.

Red Locust · Jun 17, 2005, 07:33 AM // 07:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keure

If you're going to spend time plinking someone with a wand, or using an elemental weapon with an R/E or W/E you may as well get some extra damage out of it, since you cannot Conjure Frost with, say, a lightning weapon.

Well yeah, but if you're trying to trigger spell effects, you might as well not bother with conjure element, it seems like a waste of a slot. However, if you're a warrior that's boosting your damage with conjure element (admittedly not the best damage option), you're better off with fire damage. I don't know many warriors that have enough energy to spare for thunderclap, considering there are more energy-efficient knockdowns around.

BTW, I don't see any effective ranger or warrior builds that use air magic. It seems tailored to spike damage, high energy consumption builds.

Keure · Jun 17, 2005, 08:17 AM // 08:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Locust

Well yeah, but if you're trying to trigger spell effects, you might as well not bother with conjure element, it seems like a waste of a slot. However, if you're a warrior that's boosting your damage with conjure element (admittedly not the best damage option), you're better off with fire damage. I don't know many warriors that have enough energy to spare for thunderclap, considering there are more energy-efficient knockdowns around.

BTW, I don't see any effective ranger or warrior builds that use air magic. It seems tailored to spike damage, high energy consumption builds.

Even if the conjure lightning isn't worth it to you (personally I don't like the Conjures either on anything) it is not still the best option because of the opportunities provided?

Any lightning damage can trigger the effect. So you have your elementalist cast Thunderclap/Glimmering Mark while you let the warrior or ranger take care of triggering the on-hit effect with his elemental weapon (with conjure, if he's a W/E or R/E).

As for W/E or R/E air magic builds, I see Gale as a very powerful snare/interrupt that works well with other disruptions (like Thunderclap or the assorted ranger interrupts). Makes the Conjure a bit more attractive.

Jun 17, 2005, 08:42 AM // 08:42

A Warrior with a Zealous and Adrenal build wont care about the energy loss. In fact, I'm not even sure who the energy loss goes to off the top of my head but if it goes to the Warrior I don't see a problem. You want a Warrior triggering it with an axe/sword for the fastest attack speed to keep the AoE knockdown going.The Conjure X is there just to give yourself a bit of a damage boost while the chain is continuing.