Curse

Ben Reed · Jun 23, 2005, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Hey all,

Sorry if this doesn't quite fit under Strategy Discussion (then again, it doesn't exactly fit under Build Discussion either, I think), but with the upcoming rewards system for PvP, I think it's high time I nudged the fine folks of Diamond Sword back into PvP.

Problem is, of course, most of us (myself included) have had no GW experience of any kind until retail, and I recall reading a sage piece of basic wisdom someplace (I think it was the Fi feature on the offical site) that said a good idea for starting in PvP is to start with a proven team build before attempting to get creative.

So far, the only two sure-fire bets for PvP I've gathered so far are Air elem spike builds (i.e. 6 elem/2 mo? or am I mistaken in my assumption?) and Ranger spirit spam (which I'd really rather stay away from because (1) I suspect a big fat nerf is coming soon for spirit spam, (2) unlike Ele's, PvP Rangers still can't do too much outside of spirit spam, and (3) I only have 6 Ranger skills :P ).

Are there any other semi-viable builds for GvG/HoH at the moment, or are Air elem/spirit spam the most viable ways to go?

stumpy · Jun 23, 2005, 07:58 PM // 19:58

there are many builds ... the spirit spam is just a counter to the elementalist spikers ...

I dont think that SS will be nerfed because its really not that hard to counter the spirit spam build. The only thing is right now ... everyone who hasnt faced them are still running the old build and saying *omg wtf thats cheap* well guess what ... give it a week or two and a new counter will be spread like an outbreak that dominates SS ...

The best team build is always the most balanced. Going fully lopsided will make you great ... at one thing ... and when encountering anything outside of your realm ... well ... your toast. As more and more hex/degens/brat build Mesmers and Necros become popular, we will see more and more protective builds. My best advice is to go in balanced and work well as a team. I am sure that many of the top 10 teams or people that hold the HoH can and are able to play mor than just one or 2 builds. Its not the type of build its the people playing them, and it takes some getting used to. If you are new to pvp, then you will lose ... alot ... but you will also win ... becuase out of those loses you will learn tactics and counters.

Go in balanced, my only advice is ... balance offense and defense, have someone who can be a perma hex/condition removal, someone who can run protective spirit till the cows come home ... and some who can deal some damage. Good luck!

Glasswalker · Jun 23, 2005, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Stumpy, those words are gold. You are telling people to think for themselves and be able to adjust to what comes their way instead of 'what kills what' at the moment. This is certainly harder to do, and takes practice, but you may get a "GG" from the team you beat instead of threats to have you banned for exploits.

For some, all that matters is holding the Hall by whatever means, and those will always go for FoTM builds, until someone who took Stumpy's words to heart figures out how to beat that build through imaginative play. And i guarentee you that team will have more fun.

Choose wisely. ;-)

Ben Reed · Jun 23, 2005, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Thanks for the advice, stumpy.

I've been floating around a rather balanced team idea for a while, but the impression I was getting from some of the stories and threads I've heard on PvP was that teams that try to do a little of everything well (i.e. a couple of warriors to put melee pressure on enemy casters, a couple casters for damage and interrupt/shutdown, a monk for healing, and a monk for protection) would be rather vulnerable to teams with a powerful gimmick (i.e. fast and huge Ele spike damage) that can only really be stopped effectively with a dedicated counter-gimmick (i.e. spirit spam).

I guess it'll all come down to good leadership and accumulation of firsthand experience...I just hope that I (and more importantly, my teammates) have the persistance and endurance to develop those qualities.

grimmolly · Jun 23, 2005, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Spirit spam is certainly not going to be nerfed. I've played the best HoH-winning spirit spam builds and their primary purpose is to outlast the enemy in an endurance battle and both sides can indeed benefit from the rituals. The key to defeating a spirit spam build is to not put your whole teams' eggs in one basket with elementalists or rush into a threeway altar fight with edge of extinction up. Even a warrior team can defeat spirit spam by killing conflagration first then the ritualist with anti-stance counter skills.

As for the best build, a lot of that can be learned by testing the professions. Don't try to counter everything and just worry about having enough enchant/hex/condition removal and monks and try it out. You don't need spike damage to win, but it's an easy method to learn for new players.

stumpy · Jun 24, 2005, 12:08 AM // 00:08

yes leadership and fun is key, and that only comes with experience.

an air elemental spike build wont dominate a balanced team ... the key to winning is identifying the opponent and adapting quickly. In the spikedamage opponent, you will obviously see 4+ primary E/* even before you engage ... well ... dont forget that elementalist have weak skin ... so you can a counter with prot spirit and interrupts ... in a few seconds your hammer weilding warrior can be in there face and they are done for ... it all takes practice ... but always have fun when doing it.. Try to break up your pvp into chunck ... losing will be frusterating ... so you will need to go mash some monsters ... good luck!

Tellani Artini · Jun 24, 2005, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Reed

(2) unlike Ele's, PvP Rangers still can't do too much outside of spirit spam

What?

The Red Knight · Jun 24, 2005, 05:31 AM // 05:31

me + legendary assassin and 2 other rangers 3 monks and a bad necro beat a air spike team please shut the **** up about rangers being useless =/

Just find what works for you standard is like 3 monks mesmer 2ele war,ranger,nec depending on what you need for your build

Red Locust · Jun 24, 2005, 06:34 AM // 06:34

I don't know of any specific, widely used builds other than the spirit/air spike/necro minion builds. It mostly involves tailoring your build to suit your needs. It would be great if we could get some guilds to post some of their builds, although from the looks of things, most guilds aren't too fond of sharing their builds with beginners.

Epinephrine · Jun 24, 2005, 02:54 PM // 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tellani Artini

What?

Oh ignore it. It's the ignorance patrol making the rounds. If you ignore them you can make them look like slow, poisoned pincushions next time you meet them in the HoH.

Myodato · Jun 24, 2005, 03:15 PM // 15:15

Okay, here's the super fast way of creating an effective team build.

1. Decide what you want to do (which could be based simply on what characters you have available).

2. Work out what the enemy can do to stop you.

3. Work out how to stop the enemy from stopping you.

For example, if you've got a few Warriors, then the enemy can serious hurt your offensive power used cripple, blind etc. As such, your Monks should make sure they take along extra condition removal. If you had lots of Ele's instead, the Monks would need to concentrate more on healing and damage reduction.

In the end, a good build is always based around a focused offence, and covering your weaknesses.

stumpy · Jun 24, 2005, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myodato

Okay, here's the super fast way of creating an effective team build.

1. Decide what you want to do (which could be based simply on what characters you have available).

2. Work out what the enemy can do to stop you.

3. Work out how to stop the enemy from stopping you.

For example, if you've got a few Warriors, then the enemy can serious hurt your offensive power used cripple, blind etc. As such, your Monks should make sure they take along extra condition removal. If you had lots of Ele's instead, the Monks would need to concentrate more on healing and damage reduction.

In the end, a good build is always based around a focused offence, and covering your weaknesses.

This advice is golden as well. A team will always have weak points ... if you can limit them ... then you are looking good. You'll never know what the enemy/opposition will be. And if you try to do too much with your own character you will spread yourself too thin making you more susceptible to vulnerabilities. However, if you have example ... 2-3 monks, 2 Ele, a mes, and whatever ... thats about 6 soft targets on your side and damage reduction would be key.

It will all come to your team ... cooperation, focus (not meaning focus fire, but focus if a teammate says 'i got diversion on me' needing hex removal etc)

Moskel · Jun 24, 2005, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Your best bet is to get your 8 together and go into the halls, you're going to lose but watch what the other team did, watch what spells their Monks use as you tried to kill them and learn from it. Another way to learn how to lead a squad (and how to not lead a squad) is to join "organized' PUGs and listen to what the leader is doing, take what works and ditch what doesn't work.

You're going to need voice chat to succeed unless your team is as good as a team of syncronized swimmers at coordinating what they're doing without talking about it.

Tellani Artini · Jun 24, 2005, 08:43 PM // 20:43

A bad/inexperienced team with a "proven" build will still lose to a good/experienced team with a decent build. The only way to get better is to play and analyze. Make your own builds, and when you lose, realize why your build didn't work. The shoes don't make the athlete, the car doesn't make the racer, and the rifle doesn't make the soldier. Practice makes perfect.