Curse

Moskel · Jun 20, 2005, 03:22 PM // 15:22

W/Me - Echo/Blackout, complete shutdown until echo cycles out, approx 32-35 seconds provided you can stay in melee to keep hitting blackout.

Me/N - rend enchantments, malaise, wither, ether lord, power leak, diversion, ignorance -- rend to begin with, monks just love losing all of their enchantments, then start throwing out hexes while watching for them to start casting a spell to fire off power leak, burn up the rest of your energy sharing wither/malaise on a few targets and finish off your monk with ether lord. Consider packing ignorance if you're concerned about blessed signet healing (or have a R/ /R on your team bring the anti-signet spirit -- nothing like the confused look on a monks face when they see 'You do not have enough energy to cast that.' and they're screaming 'Its a @#$#@$ signet it doesn't cost energy you buggy @#$@#$# game').

Interrupt/domination mesmers are better against Ele than they are Monks, a couple of nice power blocks (archane echo this one), consider arcane mimicry too on another Me/ /Me, even with a few points in Dom it'll be a nice help to further soften a spike team and kiss those two ele goodbye for the next 10-15 seconds. That alone can completely negate your worry about any "spike" team, going from 5 to 3 or 4 to 2 really softens up the spike.

Mesmers are probably by far the most complicated class to play followed closely by Necromancers. And with Me/N or N/Me being one of the best combos it'll be a while until people fully realize the potentials.

Sure energy drain has counters, everything has counters, the above drain when done right is countered by BiP+Blood Renewal and thats about it.

theclam · Jun 20, 2005, 04:15 PM // 16:15

when I was a mesmer secondary (ranger primary) I used backfire and the interrupt that does damage (can't think of name off hand), I didn't really like using interrupts, but backfire was really useful in harming monks bosses.

Ollj · Jun 20, 2005, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Mesmer is my third char and my most played, just unlocked ALL mesmer skills.
My favourite builds are:

The copycat (almos only inspiration and a tiny little domination):
= Arcane mimikri, Arcane Echo, echo, inspirec hex, inspired enchantment, Arcane thievery and 1-3 spells to drain energy and some classic mesmer spells:
- It basically copies/steals/removes everything around it and sends it back 2-4 times.
- It can drain and reuse up to 100 energy per second, BUT only do little damage with it, apart from secondary effects and make the foe fight a mirror of himself.
- its the most mind whacking build ive ever played, because the spoells in your skill par change 4 times per second

- You can cast the elite skill of one of your teammates up to 4 times and later cast the stolen spell (or removed enchantment, or cured hex) of a foe up to 4 times.
- hey, i can copy arcane thievery 3 times and steal 3 random spells of someone and use them myself, thats DAMN FUNNY!
- You pretty fast learn ALL the spells of the game, you've all used them once

AND you know what spell is used how often.
- You can backfire 3 monks/eles at once one time and train all their energy afterwards, that really pisses them off!!!!
- Arcane mimicry, arcane echo and echo reload slowly, but hey, thats when Blackout comes into acount

- ever fought a seal that did not have chain lightning because you stole it?

Airomancers nightmare:
= Mantra of lightning and 7 other random mesmer spells.
- 1 Mesmer can defeat 2 air eles (with nice teamwork), 2 can defeat 3, 3 can defeat ANY air ele team without a problem.

Glasswalker · Jun 21, 2005, 12:40 AM // 00:40

In my experience, mesmers tend to be callers. What that means for me as a N/R is that if I see the words "I'm using Chaos Storm on {insert monk here}" I hit them with a pin down. You are going to spend more than 1 second in that storm, and you'll be lucky if you come out with any energy

. I mostly carry this one for the warrior who likes to chase me, but occasionally there is a lucky moment where 2 quick shots simultaniously can virtually shut down a monk

.

I don't owe Blackace anything, so I'm not intentionally defending him, but the thing to remember is there is a team against you, not just a mesmer. And some people use their secondary too...

Radical · Jun 22, 2005, 08:08 PM // 20:08

I've been working on a me/el and having a great time. It's interesting reading this post and I've gotten a lot of good tips.

I do have to say that Kaylee is missing the big picture. Guild battles are based on teamwork. The mesmer doesn't need to shut you down 100%. It just needs to bother you, reduce your energy and make you deal with its spells instead of healing your teammates. The mes is also going to drop empathy on a warrior for fun which has to be dealt with.

I'm guessing the % is going to reflect the disparity in skill (and skills selected) between the two.

eventhorizen · Jun 27, 2005, 11:47 AM // 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaylee Ann

Because they suck. I expect a mesmer to get on a monk, or whatever for that matter, and shut it down (ie the topic of this post). If it isn't doing that, then it is worthless.

It is a very simple concept boys and girls. If you are playing a shutdown mesmer and you can't shutdown said monk or whatever 100% (barring outside influences, we all know mesmers are nice squishy targets) then you aren't doing your job, and you are just another weak link to your group..... I mean, is that really too much to ask?

Barring outside influences? Like what, 5 opposing teams of 8 players? lol.
If a team is in danger of losing its monks because of the actions of mesmers there going to change targets real quick. Sometimes surviving the next few minutes is more a realistic priority than 'OMFG pwn monks so we can winz0r, looool'
And that will mean trying to get the mesmers off your monk so your team can live.

Which means that the rest of the mesmers team chain link things will have to be really strong and on the ball so they dont stick blindly to their plan oblivious to whats going on around them, and then blame the mesmer at the end.

Also tbh if I was going after a monk id be trying to kill it, not just shut it down. Maybe stealing energy from a nearby caster to keep pilling pressure on the key target.

anyway easy to say on the forums, but harder to keep your wits about you in battle, especially when its a TEAM effort...

Schorny · Jun 27, 2005, 12:46 PM // 12:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bazooka

Whoa somebody give grimmolly a hug.

Off monk. Not the monk that is being targeted

Odd monk. Has an odd number next to his name

Even monk. Has an even number next to his name

Knowing when to hit which monk is the Art in Mesmer.

Very clever. Really.
But, what do you do, when 2 monks have both odd or both even numbers? What about 3 monks in a team? or even 4? Argh! What if there are smiters? Ouch... No, there are serious problems with this terminology.

But, I must confess: I'm a bad mesmer, because I call them "Monk 2" or "Monk 3" or "Targeted Monk". Man, I'm too bad

zola · Jun 27, 2005, 01:44 PM // 13:44

Altogether, an interesting discussion, even with the name calling. I'll change my monk as a result of this. Thanks,

--zola

Bazooka · Jun 27, 2005, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schorny

Very clever. Really.
But, what do you do, when 2 monks have both odd or both even numbers? What about 3 monks in a team? or even 4? Argh! What if there are smiters? Ouch... No, there are serious problems with this terminology.

But, I must confess: I'm a bad mesmer, because I call them "Monk 2" or "Monk 3" or "Targeted Monk". Man, I'm too bad

The purpose of the "odd even" designations is to not duplicate efforts and to answer the question "who should I be targeting?" when there are two members of the team assigned to monk hunting
A good mesmer can shutdown,frustrate and annoy(notice the decreasing magnitude of efficacy?) three monks at once so haveing more than one even or odd numbered should not be a problem.

This lingo is most usefull in pug/HoH where the competency of your teammates is unknown and you dont have time to type "Monk 2" or "Monk 3" or "Targeted Monk"
In an organized voice enabled team, numbers are best.

In my opinion,you're a lucky mesmer if you get into a pickup group and instead of monk hunting you're assigned to killing elementalists and mesmers, because your team already has a warrior that can own the monk.

Insomnia · Jun 27, 2005, 02:23 PM // 14:23

I used to like malaise and wither, but since they changed it to "untill energy reaches 0", i think it has lost a lot of his potential. I too like the energy denial a little more then trying to get him to "100% shutdown". Chaos storm is nice because of the reasons Blackace explained.
What's your favourite anti-caster elite btw?

Darkest Dawn · Jun 27, 2005, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackace

Let's assume that this is a monk playing with Energy Drain-who cares? So he gets back 5 mana in just under 4 seconds. Let's also play around with all the hypothetical bs while were at it.

He is playing with ED, so that means no SoR, SoD or WoH. Why am I also caring about a monk that can get off PS on one target. Occasionally getting off anything doesn't matter vs sustained damage. The monk cant keep up.Even with a high inspiration a monk Energy draining someone for 18 mana is still not back in the picture. Especially if you're arguing for the use of Protective Spirit to keep anyone alive.

Secondly, Air gank groups are worthless. There are very few guilds that can actually run a decent one.

75% of the monks spell don't cost 5 energy, especially with Divine boon builds running around and the fact that only 12 of them cost 5 energy. But let's also look at the lowest-payoff example of CS to put some sense into your bs arguments:

It costs me 15 energy to get off CS and let's say I hit 1 target for minimal gain. At 6 energy per sec:

I f you get caught in the initial casting of an OoH at 5 energy and 1.75 secs casting time: That leaves you with .25 seconds to get out of the CS and not lose 12 energy from it +5 from the OoH. And being that you wont that's 17 energy lost. Maybe a Rof at 1 sec casting time is doable, but not an OoH.

But I'll let you continue to live in your fantasy world. I know the in's and out's of the mesmer class far,far, far better than you do. Especially since you dont even know how energy regen or casting times work which is basic if you want to play well with this class.

edit: MindWrack and Migraine are terrible.

Both you and Kaylee Ann have brought up good points. My fourth char is a Me/Mo.

One thought, and I'd like your feedback, since I'm still learning, and need to learn a lot more to really be effective in PvP. In PvE, it's really easy to be a Mesmer, to me, at least.

Ok, here it goes.... It is very hard to shut down a character. Heck, if you do then it's one for one. It's then a wash, in many cases depending on the builds in the party.

I would like to think that the goal is not to shut anyone down (totally) in these cases, but to just cause any two casters enough trouble to get them more concerned with taking care of you, than focusing on the rest of the party(s). I figure that if I can get a monk so tied up in removing my hexes, and recharging himself(or herself) as well as a "stick in the wheels" on an opposing elementalist, then I've done my job, right? I may not kill anyone, but if I can tie them up to reduce their effectiveness. Perhaps slow the heals enough for the rest of my party to drop one or two, then the battle will usually be won, right?

If I reduce a monks heals by 2/3, and an elems spells by 1/3 then I think it could really turn the tide. Am I wrong in this perception?

Mind you, I'm a PvE player, but will be doing PvP as my characters ascend. So your thoughts, comments, and advice are welcome!

Jun 27, 2005, 06:20 PM // 18:20

You've got the general idea down right. It's a process called triage, and I'm supposed to finish an article on this very soon. Technically there are two types of mesmer players in "general": Shutdown through skills or stopping actions, or energy denial with interrupts. Of course both can be mixed up but in general those are the 2 archetypes of mesmers you'll see. Then there are mesmers that actually will focus fire on the called target, and of course the common scenario of a mesmer that handles the off monk or caster.

Darkest Dawn · Jun 27, 2005, 07:47 PM // 19:47

Quote:

and of course the common scenario of a mesmer that handles the off monk or caster.

Yes, this is good! This way I can stop the off monk or caster from spaming heals or aoe on my party as it focuses on droping the main target monk or whatever, correct?

A good strategy.

Osangar · Jun 28, 2005, 03:48 AM // 03:48

Mesmer's are fun...do any of you slip in there a midnight signet for taking out a warrior out of the picture also? The warrior who is owning your team's monk cant do all that much blinded...and since my Mesmer was my last char made I haven't really pvp'd with him yet...if energy denial is your way wouldnt ether lord be nice? Something like - energy drain, shame, guilt, ether lord...then go drop midnight signet on one of those nasty hammer warriors harassing your casters...On that note where IS the beastie who has midnight signet anyway? Need to go capture it. But either way it was fun to read this thread have some good hints for my mesmer

. Also wouldn't it be fun on those 3 monk 5 air teams to have 8 mesmers go with 8 Energy Surge's...there are the koreans sitting in their lil wards...slurp slurp 80 mana - 640 damage...unless they run out of mana first.

PS. has anyone had difficulties with lag and interrupts? Not sure if lag would affect the time between you seeing a target casting a spell and being able to interrupt it??

Digital Limit · Jun 28, 2005, 04:14 AM // 04:14

Curious: What about Ether Lord?

Jun 28, 2005, 05:26 AM // 05:26

that skill isn't as horrible as it used to be, but it's still pretty bad.

Vindexus · Jun 28, 2005, 07:20 AM // 07:20

Ether Lord is a skill that needs to be compliment by other skills, not the other way around. You basically need skills that drain you down to 5e, then you cast Ether Lord and it doesn't really hurt you.

Jun 28, 2005, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Why would you want to drain yourself down to 5 energy