Curse

Yukito Kunisaki · Jun 22, 2005, 07:19 AM // 07:19

My 4th guild battle and to our horror we discovered we were facing a Korean team... That automatically hyped up our fear meter but at first we had a good feeling we'd put up a good fight...

Till our radar showed a MASS of enemy dots as big as a United State. I held the ctrl key to discover it was ALL BONE FIENDS... Like 30 or so!!!

This was within 10s. of game time mind you when the timer ticked off and the GvG battle started.

Whoever said Death Magic sucks in pvp should eat their words right now... I know how they did this and came up with some meager ways to counter it but I'd like some insight about possible counters to this.

To America, seems we fear the Air Elementalist build. But the BONE FIENDS OF DEWM build... I fear that even more...

Some input and discussion please?

Also, they were using Frozen Soil and had no warriors to speak of. All ranged types it would seem... Hmm...

Rey Lentless · Jun 22, 2005, 07:26 AM // 07:26

Verata's Aura.

Mister Glue · Jun 22, 2005, 07:35 AM // 07:35

Verata's Aura or AOE. You have to remember that Minons or Fiends or whatever aren't players, so they can be killed extremely easily because most likely no one's healing them. Just use some aoe (ranged would be the best as you wouldn't get hit by them - rangers or fire ele's would work wonders) and watch them drop.

I know I'm saying this like it's easy as pie, but trust me, I know it's not. I've gone up against a few bone minion spamming teams before. If you can manage to get the minions down, you still have to deal with the players, but they should be really easy because they probably aren't prepared for any fighting outside their minions. A few of my guildmates and I were playing in the 4v4 arenas one day and came upon one of those builds (testing it out I imagine). We were able to get their minions down almost immediately and walked away with a flawless victory because they had no defense outside that.

Fantras · Jun 22, 2005, 07:50 AM // 07:50

So what do they do? The necros kill themselves over and over at the start?

Yukito Kunisaki · Jun 22, 2005, 01:24 PM // 13:24

I was thinking Verata's Aura myself but what I wondered was...

Was the enemy stupid enough to not bring it themselves? This is Korea. They were all bone fiends so ranged is a moot point. LvL SEVENTEEN bone fiends...

Yes, I believe b4 the match even started, they were using sacrificial skills along with vampiric weapons and several superior runes of sorts to lower their hp to nothing and just mass murder, summon, res, repeat themselves till they had an army the size of a lynch mob.

Verata's Aura sounds too ridiculously simple as a counter but hey, I'll notify my officers and see what we can come up with.

Thanks for the help! ^_^

Neo-LD · Jun 22, 2005, 01:40 PM // 13:40

smite monks? their holy damage could rip the undead apart. Balthazars Aura and and Shield of Judgement 4tw.

Barrage is actually fairly useful against them, particularly with judges insight. (ironic that the official PvP ranger newb build is so effective in this situation)

LoneDust · Jun 22, 2005, 01:45 PM // 13:45

There are a few ways to fight against them.
You can blind them and spread the condition with epidemic.

You could also use "Shields Up!"
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/skill/90-shields-up
For 8~18 seconds you and nearby allies gain 50 armor against piercing damage and 10-34% chance to block incoming projectile attacks.

In the case of a undead army, watch out for Taste of Death (cheap and fast self heal) and Veretta's Sarcrifice. Keep in mind that undeads naturally start having health degens after some time, so if the necromancers are disrupted while casting VS, the undead army would fall apart.

Racthoh · Jun 22, 2005, 01:46 PM // 13:46

Fought one of those before. My life regen was enough to offset all of their attacks.

shawn23233 · Jun 22, 2005, 02:01 PM // 14:01

Avoid them LOL an watch them try to keep all of those alive for any lengthy period of time.

But really conditions and epidemic are satisfactory to nullify them - in my experience anyway. Remember the necros are now playing with DP non? As if they wernt easy enough to drop without it LOL.

Jelloblimp · Jun 22, 2005, 02:32 PM // 14:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by shawn23233

Avoid them LOL an watch them try to keep all of those alive for any lengthy period of time.

But really conditions and epidemic are satisfactory to nullify them - in my experience anyway. Remember the necros are now playing with DP non? As if they wernt easy enough to drop without it LOL.

It was a Guild battle which means they go kill your Guild Lord & win if you decide to run away from the undead. If you are resurected fast enough you dont get DP and if you get -60DP in Guild Battle you dont get auto res.
(Maybe someone/people on the korean team used also Light of Dwayna to speed up res).

Edge of Extinction, holy damage, AoE are my suggestions other than the obvious Verata's Aura.

Yukito Kunisaki · Jun 22, 2005, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Edge of Extinction sounds pretty good too as a counter. Just gotta be wary since they were using Frozen Soil and Favorable Winds. Which apparently affect the dmg dealt by Bone Fiends

drowningfish999 · Jun 22, 2005, 03:42 PM // 15:42

You could always try going for their necros, although I'll bet they had 3+.

grimmolly · Jun 22, 2005, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Having played as one of these teams for kicks before, they're hardly unbeatable. Fiends aren't too smart. Healing seed and AoE for teh win.

FrogDevourer · Jun 22, 2005, 04:02 PM // 16:02

It's an old classic now. It's been used for weeks and posted in all GW forums.
The search button is your friend.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=23199
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=19346

Glasswalker · Jun 22, 2005, 08:37 PM // 20:37

A fun thing to try as soon as you see the first minion would be to rush in as quickly as possible and see if you can catch one of the necros while he's dead. Necrotic Traversal and immediately cast Verata's Aura. That way all the minions are still lined up near them, and there is probably a monk trying to rez the necro, so he is within range of the poison from the NT.

They might even be so surprised by your sudden arrival that you can get off another cast, such as Rotting Flesh or Vampiric Touch, before they have time to react. So the team is down 1 necro, another one has a serious DP, the rez monk is at 8 pips health degeneration and the team is being attacked by their own minions within seconds of the game starting. I like those odds, even if this really means I've pretty likely sacrificed myself in the process (my team will be there shortly).

And wouldn't it be great if the other Necro was raised with Vengeance? 3 down 5 to go...

For finishing, I would likely cast Death Nova on myself and just cast Shadow Strike and Vampiric Gaze for as long as I continue to live...

P.S. Someone mentioned that Order of the Vampire would be great in this build, but I don't think it affects minions. The description says "party members" not "allies"... Could anyone confirm this?

Kaleban · Jun 22, 2005, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Have everyone else hang back and send in the farming monk/warrior. They can survive everything else, I'm sure PBAoE Smites could take out the whole army relatively quickly.

hydrak · Jun 23, 2005, 03:14 AM // 03:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jelloblimp

It was a Guild battle which means they go kill your Guild Lord & win if you decide to run away from the undead. If you are resurected fast enough you dont get DP and if you get -60DP in Guild Battle you dont get auto res.
(Maybe someone/people on the korean team used also Light of Dwayna to speed up res).

Edge of Extinction, holy damage, AoE are my suggestions other than the obvious Verata's Aura.

Always have a couple of ranger secondary or primary on your team. Use edge of extinction and make them swallow their own nuclear bombs.

Mayar third Keeper · Jun 23, 2005, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Quote:

Have everyone else hang back and send in the farming monk/warrior. They can survive everything else, I'm sure PBAoE Smites could take out the whole army relatively quickly.

Did u ever see such an army?

You have no time to go in and stop the Necro. He gets his Army up befor the gates open.

The smiting Monk never reach the place to start his attacks he goes down first.

I saw a Necro doing this while we arrive. He goes up down within a sec an while we were wondering a sec he got 2 new minions...

Perhaps this could be done with Vengeance.
It looks like an exploit to me.

Darc.Syde · Jun 23, 2005, 11:55 PM // 23:55

bone fiend Ai is easily exploitable.

with a warrior, draw all of their attacks, and focus heals on that warrior while your team AoE's the crap out of everything.

Young_Anakin · Jun 23, 2005, 11:59 PM // 23:59

It's not a bug in guild wars. It's a build that has been described in the Pre-order manual for guild wars. If I was at home I would type it out, but it's in the pre-order manual so the people that started this build didn't invent it.