Curse

Phades · Jun 28, 2005, 04:27 AM // 04:27

Considering how conditional warrirors are required to operate, im surprised you dont just plant the trap right under their feet like alot of trapper rangers ive seen do. There are only 2 jobs that are conditionally good and only one of them is conditional, due to how the skill setup is built. Warriors have more conditions that need to be fulfilled than any other job in order to begin to suceede. This is why i would state that they suck more than they rock, when compared against any other job.

They also have other logistical issues such as armor defense vs other melee damage that raises some questions as to who they are supposed to counter/hunt. However, that issue is more of a pve versus a pvp consideration though opposed to a side by side class pvp comparison. This is in a very similar stance when observing the low casting cost/quick cast time healing spells and protection spells, versus most all other magic.

GranDeWun · Jun 28, 2005, 12:57 PM // 12:57

After some, not a lot, of PvP time as a warrior (in addition to other classes), I've started to wonder about the following as a change to arena combat: raise adrenaline recharge rates in PvP combat only. Just an idea to kick around.

ZING · Jun 28, 2005, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Dumb arse warriors who think that because they have the armor they should charge first and don't bring enough skills to avoid being hexed/blinded = useless

A warrior with the right elite, removal skills, and (more important) waits far in the back while everyone charges, can then swoop in and reak havoc on a mo's healing/energy.

No one is going to charge a warrior, no one is going to move away from the 'tight' group formation to hex a warrior (remember that as reasoning for hanging back). Take your eyes off a good W for a second and suddenly you're entire group is in trouble.

Here's but ONE build that can be very usefull in battle
W/R
Use Glad Armor for Energy (you should have 28 Ener on armor alone)
Use Sword (because you need the adren)
Strength 11 +1
Sword 11 +1
Beast Mastery 7
Skills
1- Antidote Signet (R)
2- Nature's Renewal (R) - 10 Ener
3- Tiger's Fury (R) - 10 Ener
4- Warrrio's Cunning (W) - 10 Ener
5- Sprint (W) - 5 Ener
6- Final Thrust (W) - 10 Adren
7- Hundred Blades (W) - 5 Ener
8- Savage Slash (W) - 5 Ener
^
This is if you plan to be self sufficient. If the group specs to get rid of your signet, and nature's renewal, watch out! Because you'll then be able to bring more powerfull adren skills.

Tactic: Don't be stupid and charge in. WAIT. When groups are engaged, move forward and use Nature's Renewal slowing hexes and enchantments in half. Pick the closest (non-Monk) soft target, activate War's cunning and get stab happy on them. When their health gets to 65% (or when healed) move off to next soft target, and activate Tiger's Fury; within seconds you'll have enough energy for Hundred Blades; activate it. The soft target you're on now will be down to 50% if they're lucky -- activate final thurst and stick it to them forcing a double heal.

If you're good you should have been watching to see who's doing the majority of the healing/protecting. At this point target that little shiet

, and hit Tiger's Furry again (you should have enough Ener for this). Your final thurst will be charged again real quick, and given that you've been swinging 33% faster, soon you'll have the dreaded Savage Slash, "Still Furry'ing", Final Thrust combo that'll have this Mo near death. At which point you call the target and within seconds that mo is off the battlefield (if they don't run).

If the Mo runs (and trust me they will), ignore. Do not chase. A Mo healing themselves off the battlefield is a useless Mo, and more importantly won't be around to heal when you turn to the next soft target and lay a hurting on them.

This is just one of many tactics that can work. I'm sure people have many many more (including stopping the above tactic). GW was designed so that NO character class is way better then the other.

Useless War's are useless because of their owner's, not the class. A great Warrior in PvP shouldn't kill anything, but should be a massive drain on the energy of the other team's Monks.

Arclyte · Jun 28, 2005, 09:50 PM // 21:50

IMO, Hundred Blades is complete crap.

ZING · Jun 28, 2005, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arclyte

IMO, Hundred Blades is complete crap.

If you're worrying about dealing huge damage and killing guys all on your own, yes. If your only interest is to stress the mo into energy drain, then it's not useless

Phades · Jun 28, 2005, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZING

GW was designed so that NO character class is way better then the other.

Useless War's are useless because of their owner's, not the class. A great Warrior in PvP shouldn't kill anything, but should be a massive drain on the energy of the other team's Monks.

If you are looking to drain energy a mesmer or a necro can do it better than a wariror can. Hell even some nature rituals can be taxing on the mana or the skill bar over time.

Also, a job doesnt have to be way better in one area or another in order for another job to stink. If every job is better in one area or another than another job, then it does stink.

I have to agree with arclyte though, id say bring griffon sweep, sever atery, apply poison, if the goal was to inflict more stress and get any other eliete instead of hundred blades.

*i do find it sad that nearly every other job that has stances, has easier to cycle/more effective/longer duration stances than warriors.

Vindexus · Jun 28, 2005, 10:28 PM // 22:28

How does dealing less damage equal more energy drain? They have less to heal. Your build would be better with Axe IMO. I like Nature's Renewal on him, and Tiger's Fury is a must for W/R. Warrior's Cunning has a too long of recharge for me to ever take it. If they drop then I'll obviously use it.

ZING · Jun 28, 2005, 11:21 PM // 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vindexus

How does dealing less damage equal more energy drain? They have less to heal. Your build would be better with Axe IMO. I like Nature's Renewal on him, and Tiger's Fury is a must for W/R. Warrior's Cunning has a too long of recharge for me to ever take it. If they drop then I'll obviously use it.

I'm thinkin more along the lines of this:
One major hit to one person = 2 heals by monk to get back to full
Two weaker hits to 4 guys = 4 heals by monk

I also don't want to make it seem like the War is going from target to target reacking havoc while everyone else get's to sit on their thumbs. War is only as good as his group (same for any class for that matter though)

Went with a group casting a shiet load of creatures today. Oh lord, slaughter. I spec'ed for major offense, cause I knew I wouldn't be whiffing, and it was on as they say. I'd get guys to below 50% in about 4 seconds (with a monk heal), and move on to next target. Within 1 minute of this every monk was so taxed it was a breeze to pick them off.

It's always about the groups. Has been since the beginning. You don't NEED a War in any group. But the same could be said for any class if you spec right.

Vindexus · Jun 28, 2005, 11:31 PM // 23:31

The monk probably won't be wasting on orison on a guy who took 27 dmg from your Hundred Blades every 8 seconds. I think going with Cleave an Penetrating Blow spam would end up with more dead enemies. But whatever works for you I guess.

Zeru · Jun 28, 2005, 11:39 PM // 23:39

Uh, A w/me echoed fear me user is going to put out an insane amount of energy denial if they can get the adrenaline (i,e enemy is not WAM abusing).

A R/Me is going to get the best single or dual target energy denial with echoed debilitating shot.

Mesmers and necros are not able to compare over time, especially with wither/malaise ending at 0 energy.

Phades · Jun 29, 2005, 12:11 AM // 00:11

It doesnt have to with wither/malaise... just has to be greater than 1 but less than 5.

Also if they end due to 0 mana, just re-apply and the lockdown is complete.

Both have a short enough recast and a long enough duration to allow the caster to spread the love, hp providing of course.

Jun 29, 2005, 02:56 AM // 02:56

not another W/R build...

Vindexus · Jun 29, 2005, 03:02 AM // 03:02

W/R is probably the weakest warrior, but I like his build somewhat. Nature's Renewal is nice, Tiger's Fury is good, but 10e is bad. Antidote signet doesn't hurt. The only reason I can see to go /ranger for a warrior would be nature's renewal. Everything else can be done better by other classes.

ZING · Jun 29, 2005, 04:42 AM // 04:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackace

not another W/R build...

Sigh
It's that kind of thinking that make it almost impossible for people like me to get a good group.

I'm so sick of assumptions that a W/? is useless in battle, when I've seen for myself that in the right hands he's as usefull as any other build.

ANY War working with a Ranger (who is using Natures Renewal) can lay a serious hurtin in PvP. That two man combo can go all over the battle field smokin guys.

Sciros Darkblade · Jun 29, 2005, 05:46 AM // 05:46

I've so far had good success with my W/Me in PVP, although I have not competed on any level other than random 4 v 4 yet.

From my experience, warriors are not any worse than other classes, but they are certainly some of the most difficult to play. While it's pretty hard being "expert" level with ANY mix of professions, warriors really start to get tricky once you get into the intermediate level of competition. By that time everyone has enough anti-warrior skills equipped that warriors are simply not as effective as they once were if all they still do is run up and hack, clicking on adrenal skills as they charge up.

I play my character as more of a high-armor mesmer than a warrior with a single mesmer slot devoted to Conjure Phantasm. It works rather well because I try to be sneaky and avoid getting targeted in the beginning, gunning for the soft targets such as mesmers and monks first of all. Once I Sever Artery and Phantasm them, and they are starting to worry a bit about life (as opposed to enchantment removal ^_^), I THEN cast Illusionary Weaponry and kill them in seconds. When the disenchanters are out of the way, I move on to the enemy warriors, empathy them, and continue on with the IW punishment. (For those trying to escape I either pack hamstring or imagined burden; both have their pros and cons and which one is better depends on the situation more than anything else.)

Meh, why did I go on a tangent about my "not too crappy" strategy... I don't know, the point is that if you play smart and know how your build is supposed to work, you can be a very strong warrior. As long as you play with good tactics, you can be a great asset to your party. The difficult part is coming up with good tactics, and convincing any warrior-hating party that you are not one of the n00bs that made them hate warriors in the first place.

I can understand why warriors are disliked -- because they are the most carelessly played class (in general, although rangers come close!). But people who dislike warriors as a profession simply haven't YET gotten totally owned by a skilled one on the battlefield. And sooner or later they will, I am certain.

Jun 29, 2005, 05:48 AM // 05:48

W/x arent useless. It's just that a W/R build that doesn't seem to do anything significantly outstanding doesn't make sense to me.

Phades · Jun 29, 2005, 06:52 AM // 06:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackace

W/x arent useless. It's just that a W/R build that doesn't seem to do anything significantly outstanding doesn't make sense to me.

W/E conditional damage spiker/ranged snare/damage adder, but easily disabled.

W/ME ranged snare/anti hex/anti ench/possible reliable simulated melee damage, but vulnerable to conditions.

W/N has more augmentation to help basic melee attacks, but also can remove enchantments and gives potential for condition spamming, but vulnerable to hexes.

W/Mo has more ability to sustain basic warrior function, but fewer anti warrior counter denial options.

Many of the more seemingly succesful wariror/x builds appear to be more contingent on the /x side for success instead of the warrior side. Every other class seems to be the reverse, or has the option to choose to play either job's role fully, or near fully in the case of X/mo.

Zeru · Jun 29, 2005, 07:35 AM // 07:35

There's a big difference between optimal and suboptimal builds :/

Darc.Syde · Jun 29, 2005, 07:42 AM // 07:42

if you're looking at warrior builds individually, a W/R has crap going for it most of the time. But if you look at a W/R in a build, your outlook may change - depending on how l33t the build is... ;p

Dahl · Jun 29, 2005, 08:11 AM // 08:11

Here's my theory: Warriors are AMAZING in pvp... But as we all know, newbs tend to pick warriors as their first character for simplicity. Once they become more experienced and tactical, they make other classes, which is why thy seem so much better. Personally, I've created an amazing build in pvp, and so of course I benefit from that.