Curse

Lord Malikai · Jun 29, 2005, 11:37 AM // 11:37

Ok, I take that back. A Wa/Mo with Judges Insight is pretty nasty. Yet I hardly see any who use it.

dreamcrafter · Jun 29, 2005, 12:30 PM // 12:30

Well, as a Ranger in PVP there are two priority targets for me:

Healers (for obvious reasons)
Warriors - because they scare the *?=#@! out of me. I can usually stand my own against a single warrior in melee for a few seconds by using some defensive skills, but ultimately I stand no chance against them if somebody doesn't help me. So once I killed the other team's monk (if I'm still alive and not tankfood) I usually concentrate my fire on the next warrior.. I really hate them!

Nash · Jun 29, 2005, 01:32 PM // 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raumoheru

when we get to the higher levels i see with my Ele's very spamable flare i do almost 2 times damage on every hit.

1. Flare is utter shit.
2. If your Warrior does less DPS than Flare, your Warrior build is utter shit too.

Warriors don't suck. They are good for DPS (not tanking, THERE IS NO TANKING IN PvP). They are however easy to counter and limited in range and hard to use effectively on maps with chokepoints, elevation and such, and you can kite to avoid their damage. Multiple Warriors on a target is going to suck since they bodyblock each other.

So, to run Warriors effectively, keep them on different targets, snare the targets, and don't use them for maps with too complex terrain.

asdar · Jun 29, 2005, 01:47 PM // 13:47

Warriors and monks have mirror PvP / PvE experiences.

In PvP warriors Deal Damage and monks take it.

In PvE Warriors take damage and monks should almost never take damage.

Mistress Dasha · Jun 29, 2005, 02:02 PM // 14:02

hehe I actually like it when mobs cast blind, weakness, bleed, cripple, fire trap or any condition on me. With a little skill called plague touch hahah the trick is on the mob..

Grandma Dasha

GranDeWun · Jun 29, 2005, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nash

1. Flare is utter shit.

Levle 20 E/? who still use flare make me want to strangle them...

Ancalagon06 · Jun 30, 2005, 01:41 AM // 01:41

I use plague signet and plague sending and plague touch quite a lot on my warrior. The great thing about conditions is that, as a necromancer secondary, I can slap them on that spell caster I'm chasing around.

I've never had a problem coming up with a counter to most anti-warrior skills in the game. Hexs? I take endure and defy pain. 1100 HP is a good thing. There's always a counter to everything in the game. That warriors are sometimes slow to respond is sad. Anyone who's ever said that their ele/ranger/necro is better than my warrior, I call them silly. No one class is better than another, they just have differing roles in the game.

The Man · Jun 30, 2005, 02:58 AM // 02:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nash

They are good for DPS (not tanking, THERE IS NO TANKING IN PvP).

Amen!!

ZING · Jun 30, 2005, 03:00 AM // 03:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Malikai

... I don't understand. I feel like a rampaging beast in PvP sometimes because noone even bothers to blind/weaken me. Everyone brings all this crap to spike casters dead, yet forget that a warrior with the right setup can pump out 50-100 damage hits every swing continously! And screw Wa/Mo's, I've found them all incompetent. If I was a Wa/Mo, I would bring mend ailment and remove hex or the likes. But I'm not, I'm a Wa/E. I understand nobody gives a damn about warriors and ignores them, so I've made myself into the ultimate "Balls to the wall" offensive machine. No protections, no healing, no defensive stances. If you ignore me, I will kill you in 7 seconds flat if you fail to get healed or start to pay attention to me and do something about it. I rely on my monks to remove conditions if need be. Otherwise, I swing my sword.

I like all this "Warriors suck" mumbo jumbo, it just reinforces peoples false beliefs that warriors really do suck. Next time you're lying on the ground staring at the sky with a big pointy thing sticking from your chest, don't start wondering if Air Elementalists have started to use swords.

That just about sums it up.
Even in HoH no one gives shiet about Warior's. You can talk up and down about how every class has all these awesome skills to deal with a Warrior, but when was the last time you saw a caster in battle start out by dedicating himself to making a (smart) Warrior useless? Ya, if it's some n00b who charges forward thinking it's still PvE I can see it, but otherwise NEVER happens.

In the beginning I was using many of my skill slots to keep my War free from every freakin ailment possible, and to my surprise I rarely ever used ANY of them because no one gave a shiet that I was out there. So I literally turned myself into a pain machine, and any time I've ever done that (with a good group), surprise, surprise: we're either at or close to HoH.

Any time I've ever tried to be fancy and bring along 1v1 skills for a caster, I'm useless, and we lose quickly.

You can talk about DPS, you can talk about all these awesome anti tank skills, but the LAST thing you ever want to see as a caster is an ignored War set up to deal max damage.

I speak from HoH first hand experience.
Warriors DO have cancel skills you know? Like for instance the doozie I like to call Savage Slash. That'll be 30 extra on top of my 35 thank you! And that's to say nothing of Skull Crack which will make you useless for 15 seconds -- and that's about 5 more then a War spec'ed for pain will EVER need to kill you outright.

Keep thinking of the Warrior as an afterthought; it only makes it 10 times easier in PvP. Stupid War players deserve to be called useless, but ph33r the ones that don't think they're still in PvE.

Van the Warrior · Jun 30, 2005, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raumoheru

no you, are wrong.

it shames me to say but warriors are the most pathetic class out there, only usefull to take damage to keep spellcasters alive.
when we get to the higher levels i see with my Ele's very spamable flare i do almost 2 times damage on every hit.

the warriors are easily made uselss with blind, weaken, and cripple (cant catch casters), and although they have nice shiny armor, it is nothing when you are poisoned, diseased, and have things like life siphon and life transfer and conjure phantasm.

i love my warrior i really do but he is nothing if he doesnt have a steady flow of Mend Ailment being thrown on him

sure dude sure your flare does more damage than a warriors strike unless you are +16 fire and fighting an ice monster your only on par not all warriors are broke and use crap items some carry all 4 elemental weapons on them and can easily keep up with your "uber damage"

Phades · Jun 30, 2005, 05:46 AM // 05:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van the Warrior

sure dude sure your flare does more damage than a warriors strike unless you are +16 fire and fighting an ice monster your only on par not all warriors are broke and use crap items some carry all 4 elemental weapons on them and can easily keep up with your "uber damage"

Never done a side by side flare/lightning strike/ice spear/stone dagger comparison against real targets myself. Havent seen anyone use them really later in the game. Only 2 conditions id be interested in is if the target is moving and distance from the caster to the target, in the instance of the projectile spells personally. But then again, the only real use of those spammy skills would be for silly ele tricks using ether renewal+attunement+restoration getting a positive regen per cast on mana, filling up the bar to drop the real spells down again faster. Of course, with a setup like that, the other 4 spells had better be impressive, or 3 if res is included.

theclam · Jun 30, 2005, 06:25 AM // 06:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingKryton

i want sum1 to make a game where you can only be warriors, archers or cavalry. and have large scale battle like in the middle ages. why no1 hasnt made a game like this is strangte cus it would kickass. You build up your own army in a larhe scale map of the whole of europe. You start out as a simple peasant but as you work your way thhru you can become th greatest ruler of all time.

Or am i just crazy

Rome: Total War is exactly like this.

On-topic:
Warriors have the best armor in the game, as well as the best sustained DPS. They can be both a tank AND a damage dealer. I don't see what the problem is.

Ancalagon06 · Jun 30, 2005, 06:40 AM // 06:40

My single happiest moment in the game was very recently, where I came up to a ranger, and nailed him but good with my hammer, and I saw a "-100" pop up above his head. My squeal of glee was heard throughout the land. Then, when he tried to get away, BACKBREAKER!

God I love this game.

EDIT: Other games like what you want would be Stronghold, Medival Total War, Knights of Honor, Lords of the Realm III, Age of Empires II, etc. etc. etc.

Mo/R9 · Jun 30, 2005, 06:53 AM // 06:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingKryton

i want sum1 to make a game where you can only be warriors, archers or cavalry. and have large scale battle like in the middle ages. why no1 hasnt made a game like this is strangte cus it would kickass. You build up your own army in a larhe scale map of the whole of europe. You start out as a simple peasant but as you work your way thhru you can become th greatest ruler of all time.

Or am i just crazy

Age of Empires multiplayer.

StigTC · Jun 30, 2005, 10:37 AM // 10:37

I think what he wants is an RPG version of those games. I kinda want that too.

Vorkronor · Jun 30, 2005, 12:04 PM // 12:04

A multi-level online game would be good.

Multi-level would be: some people playing the strategy and some people playing the pawns. That would definitely kick acc.

Widaker Bauglir · Jun 30, 2005, 12:40 PM // 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raumoheru

no you, are wrong.

it shames me to say but warriors are the most pathetic class out there, only usefull to take damage to keep spellcasters alive.

when we get to the higher levels i see with my Ele's very spamable flare i do almost 2 times damage on every hit.

the warriors are easily made uselss with blind, weaken, and cripple (cant catch casters), and although they have nice shiny armor, it is nothing when you are poisoned, diseased, and have things like life siphon and life transfer and conjure phantasm.

i love my warrior i really do but he is nothing if he doesnt have a steady flow of Mend Ailment being thrown on him

Saying this only proves you've never encountered a good warrior. A smart warrior can be the biggest pain in the ass, especially hammer warriors. Those hexes/conditions can affect every class, although, granted, the warrior can find them very annoying (eg cripple, blind) because he has to get his damage out of melee damage. But warriors do the most sustained DPS, and can be very annoying using knockdowns. Try to put blind or cripple on a warrior while your ass is on the ground. Nothing is more frustrating.

I'm no expert though, in the contrary, I'm more a newbie than something else, so the most things I'm saying are probably bullshit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vorkronor

A multi-level online game would be good.

Multi-level would be: some people playing the strategy and some people playing the pawns. That would definitely kick acc.

If I'm not mistaking, there was a game like that being developed.

Maxiemonster · Jun 30, 2005, 01:14 PM // 13:14

Well, in PvE, Warriors are simply ment for that. In PvP, they're not meat shields at all acutally.

buffalotrot · Jul 07, 2005, 05:31 AM // 05:31

sweet, my first post....

anyways, the hardest part of a W\Mo IMO is the fact that most of the time (in PvE) no one ever converses about what they plan to do. you group and end up leaving for mission with the same concurrent skill trees that really have no help to each other. you grab a monk thinking he'll be a healer but hes a smiter, and you dont grab any heal skills for yourself considering in PvE your the tank and he rolls an enchantment for you so you dont get raped (unless youre smart about endure pain or signet) and hardly ever do you get a monk to help out with remove hex or mend ailment so youre screwed with your cripples or poison until they run out.

so in the end, you either have to decide on whether or not youre going to chance having a healer monk in your group and pick actual dmg dealing skills or be safe and choose your healing stuff not knowing if youre wasting space with skills you dont even need

Racthoh · Jul 07, 2005, 08:07 AM // 08:07

In PvP, far from useless. Savage Slash, Bull Strike... I dare you foolish monks to run from me. I always used to run in after the enemy priest with about 30 seconds left until the 2 minute mark and crush their hopes of victory. Life Transfer - Berserker Stance - Savage Slash once he heals - Power Attack - Pure Strike - Final Thurst. So long priest.

Recently though I switched to monk. Not for the defensive purposes, tactics does that just fine keeping me with a constant 75% chance to block. Useless in PvP, but in the UW... ahh, surround me ataxes. I choose monk simply to have that number 8 button rebirthing everyone after they die.