Curse

Doppelganger · Jul 02, 2005, 02:03 PM // 14:03

Don't forget health degen and/or fragility based Me/R R/Me rangers.

You can pull a nasty little trick by dropping your wilderness survival to very low values and then using incendiary arrow to incite one second of burning per hit. With a high illusion skill and fragility hex, this amounts to burning damage+arrow damage+2xfragility damage for 8 seconds, usually bolstered by tiger's fury. Let's not even mention that your opponent is getting pelted by interrupting arrows for those 8 seconds. Compute it, it comes out to a huge amount of damage, but you have to get all your ducks in a row.

This is something of a one-trick build though, as the lower wilderness survival makes it quite difficult to do many things as a ranger, but casters do generally go up like matchsticks unless they are quick with getting rid of the fragility hex. This strategy would probably be better off being mesmer heavy rather than ranger heavy.

Something more moderate is degeneration, which is what I'm using now. I generally lead an attack run with an ethereal burden or, after a short while, energy tap. You throw on conjure phantasm and poison your enemy by using apply poison or poison arrow skills, and voila, 9 degen that should last, on the whole, at least 8 seconds without further intervention. While this is going on, you are free to help your team with other things--pindowns for fleeing targets, distracting shot for casters, for instance.

Let's do a quick skill breakdown:
poison arrow/apply poison (one or the other)
conjure
energy tap/ethereal burden

Which nets you an easy constant base 18dps on a target and leaves you with 5 skills left over for whatever. You must be careful with energy management though, as those conjures can blow through your mana, so keep this in mind when selecting your mesmer skills. Energy tap has the nice side effect of letting you know when your opponent is running out of energy (a little bit disappointing when you steal a whopping 3 energy points, but at least you know they are hurting) to better make better decisions about what to do.

Strongly Suggested:
Distracting shot
Pin down

Which still leaves you with another three. Depending on my fancy, I generally choose from:
Troll Unguent (especially if it's with a random team, but generally not when it's organized)
A defense stance
Throw dirt
Debilitating shot
Tiger's fury
Shatter hex/enchantment
Energy drain

I would list others in the domination line, but I'm pretty scarce on attr points after having a high enough wilderness survival and illusion magic to get me a decent bang for the energy buck from my conjure/poison. This is also something of a weakness, although a strong wilderness survival allows a ranger to do many things, something the fragility build compromises. Illusion I feel to be a little bit more confining.

Deathbow Magee · Jul 03, 2005, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkmagnolia

IMO, I think rangers are the worst at soloing. They're better off as a party member because they need more than just a pet to tank while they snipe.

But afterall, GW is a team weighted game so I don't think it's fair to base it on a "one on one". :/

I may be a little late....but...ROFL WTF?!...ARE YOU DUMB?! Rangers are so good at farming, all you need to do is lay down a few traps, lead the enemy to the traps and whamo! you got yourself some gold!! Anyone who thinks rangers sucks are total noobs! I have been playing this game since October 2004 (first beta testing ever, back when the game was suposed to come out in summer 2004). The ONLY two things that can beat my spike group (meanign monks and air eles) are an all mesmer team and an all ranger team. Never underestimate rangers traps and ESPECIALLY the spirits, hell with spirit of winter my friggen 100 damage + 25% amro penatration does 30 damage lol. wow...I cannot beleive the noobs on these forums...

Deathbow Magee · Jul 03, 2005, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Oh yeah...and I know I could edit if i wanted too...dun forget interrupting skills from rangers, only them, mesmers, and hammer wars can really do anything to interrupt my group of spike eles, and even then the hammer wars need to build up adrenaline again, and by that time they are dead...1, 2, 3, Lightening orb (whole group does about 500-600 damage depending on how many eles I have in it).

Hell Knight · Jul 03, 2005, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Kay, so I'm a newcomer, so can't really post to the last ones but I'll write my personal opinion about rangers. I started ranger a few times, but never found it exciting, but NOW!!! I made a ranger with a name: Arrow Of Melandru(R/E) and I LOVE it. Maybe not the best for soloing, but I really like it(either for soloing, either defending others' back). Most points I spent on Marksmanship(power shot, penetrating shot) next one is wilderness survivor(troll unguent, kindle arrows) then a few to beast mastery(char animal and comfort animal). I don't really need secondary class, cause ranger is fine on its own(though I spent a few points on earth magic cause of ward against melee). So equipment: I'll go on druid set because of the energy bonus(original 25, with druid:32). My bow is not a big deal(at least I saw uber brutal omgwtfbbq bows sold for 120K) but I like it(fiery composite bow of fortitude: 15-28 fire dmg +24 health) and I have a nice little cat(lvl 16). I'm lvl 17 and really love the ranger ^^

Paine · Jul 03, 2005, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Welcome to Guild Wars! All rangers suck!

Keure · Jul 03, 2005, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paine

Welcome to Guild Wars! All rangers suck!

Welcome to the strategy forum, Paine. Keep your extremely biased and subjective opinion out of these boards.

The link above also has some objective Ranger class analysis once you look past the flames, although it's tough to recommend reading it in its entirety.

(wondering why this thread keeps getting revived)

Neo-LD · Jul 03, 2005, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Rangers are much easier to play in arena, where spikes, and even monks, are not required to win. Their ability to wage an attrition war is unmatched, with expertise, interupt, energy denial, fast firing speed (with tigers fury on) and respectable DoT. Good rangers are very dominant when it comes to the 4v4 arena.

In larger games, however, the presence of multiple monks can nuetralize the ranger's DoT and usually his direct damage as well. Thus he must rely on what he CAN still do effectively: interupt and remove energy. He is played similar to a mesmer: comparitively, he does certain things worse, but other things better. Observe:

Mesmers can take away more energy at once, and in different ways. They can deal significant damage to casters and prevent them from casting spells. However, most of those abilities is conditional: it must be used when they re casting, attacking, running, etc. Its easy to miss. Other mesmer abilites rely on the opponent to make a mistake. Experienced players can easily overcome those spells. I am speaking directly to backfire and Wastrels Worry etc.

Rangers have only one way to take away energy, but it is very solid: debilitating shot. It has short cooldown and small energy cost compared to mesmer spells. It cannot be countered, and does not rely on conditions. At the same time he denies energy, the ranger can deal excellent ranged damage, and interpt key spells. Rangers are also much more survivable than mesmers, and are not targeted. Its hard for a mesmer to do his job when he is being nuked by the enemy team, or if hes dead. Furthermore, rangers excellent elemental armor and damage type manipulation makes them key to the current counter to the popular air nuke build in HoH.

Think about it: it HoH, the match is a stalemate and only ends when one side's monks run out of energy. /enters the ranger.

Zonzai · Jul 04, 2005, 01:37 AM // 01:37

At least one AN dev has stated that rangers are intended to be a middle-of-road character able to fill any other profession's role. Rangers don't really have a single particular role. The problem with that, and with rangers period, is really in this very design concept.

Guild Wars is a game that rewards highly specialized builds in terms of both characters and teams. People don't want to use a ranger in that way because it puts the team at a distinct disadvantage compared to a character designed to fill that particular role. And this becomes especially apparent when facing a whole group of calculated and highly specialized characters.

This leaves rangers without any real role - regardless of what the designer's intended. People just don't use rangers that way. The only role that they could feasibly fit into is that of a warrior... and well, they suck at tanking so it's still a disadvantage. They do have one elite skill that can help them fill the role of a nuker. But one skill doesn't mean a damn thing.

What really needs to happen, and what I am hoping that the expension skills will do, is give the ranger some well-defined and fitting role. I don't really care what that role is as long as they get some skills specifically designed to fill that role. This is the only way that a ranger, other than a group of full trappers, can ever hope to be needed in a pick up group.

Eskimo Bob · Jul 04, 2005, 01:47 AM // 01:47

Rangers don't suck. They do have a few set roles. Traper, sniper, and disrupter. That is just starting.

spacemonkeymafia · Jul 04, 2005, 05:49 AM // 05:49

this is true i have seen many a fine ranger

Deathbow Magee · Jul 06, 2005, 05:02 AM // 05:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paine

Welcome to Guild Wars! All rangers suck!

one read my reply that i wrote before...ont he same page as this comment. Two...your either a noob who knows nothing, or just trying to piss us off. Your totally wrong, rangers are basically warriors from a distance (to a certain extent anyways), and everyone who thinks they suck is a moron who doesn't know how to play GW. Rangers can take down anyone dumb enough (and there are alot of dumb people out there) to step into their traps, and their spirits can boost them, while shutting down their opponents (esspecially earth, air, and fire eles [aslong as they do not use spirit of greater conflagration whcih boosts fire]). They jsut put down Spirit of WInter and there ya go you do half damage or less with any spell you throw at them, then they throw down some other spirits and ther ya go, they hit you for 2X the damage. Oh yeah, warriors, or anyone with melee weapons equipped, watch out for those traps they laid down before you got near them. Oh wait half your party is dead? Frozen soil...oopps you cannot ressurect anyone. Oh yeah, spell casters of any sort (mesmers, monks, eles, necros), better watch out for intterupting skills like Choking Gas, Concussion Shot, and Distracting Shot, if they hit you you won't be able to cast that spell you were in the middle of. Oh no a wolf, bear, and a lynx all attacking...who will you hit? the pets or their masters? Better choose quikely or your screwed. Choose the pet...your dead, was just a decoy. Choose the master, your dead he has troll ungent and is interrupting everythin you try to throw at him (not to mention he is getting healed and protected by the monks in his party). Oh yeah and those pesky pets are still hittin pretty hard.

I think i made my point, a well thought out ranger team can be VERY effective (problem is finding good rangers). I AM ALWAYS AVAILABLE!!! I can play monk, ranger, necro, mesmer, warrior, and ele (got the skills and items unlocked (for all of them), for monk, mesmer, warrior and necro just tell me the word and a kick ass pvp char (almost as good as a pve char [with how much i have unlocked]) will come to your aid!!

Deathbow Magee · Jul 06, 2005, 05:16 AM // 05:16

Um...also..since I just read the comment by Zonzai....your wrong. Rangers have the roles (as Eskimo Bob said) of trapper, interupter, and (well i put this one in) buffer (meaning they lay down spirits to boost your group while downsizing the enemy quite a bit). Too wide spread for you? Think all the other clases have more specific functions? WRONG! Here is a list for each class of what they are most often used for:

Ele: Spiker, Nuker, Warder; (three jsut like rangers)

Mes: Interrupter, Drainer, and some damage dealing; (sorta like 2 1/2)

War: Interrupter (thats hammer), Condition dealer (sword and axe), and like 1/4 buffer (with shouts and the like); (thats only 2 1/4 but unlike the other professions the interrupter and condition dealer cannot be done at the same time)

Necro: Cursing (most people do nto like curses, but if used rite they can be quite good), Buffer (like with Blood is Power for spell casters), and Undead Raiser; (3 aswell)

Monk: Healer, Protector, and sometimes people use them for Smiting; (again, like 2 1/4)

Man I type alot...but yeah thats bassically the gist of things.

Are Cane · Jul 06, 2005, 05:17 AM // 05:17

Not really, Rangers are getting better cause people are learning how to use them. My friend Elliot went GvG and the team was vs. a team of 8 rangers. 6 R/Mo and 2 other Ranger somethings and all they did was put traps, Barbed, Flame, and the Smoke one. The other team consisting of 8 Warriors died pretty fast. So rangers don't really suck

Deathbow Magee · Jul 06, 2005, 05:24 AM // 05:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Are Cane

Not really, Rangers are getting better cause people are learning how to use them. My friend Elliot went GvG and the team was vs. a team of 8 rangers. 6 R/Mo and 2 other Ranger somethings and all they did was put traps, Barbed, Flame, and the Smoke one. The other team consisting of 8 Warriors died pretty fast. So rangers don't really suck

I agree that rangers do not suck (as posted and explained by many cases in my three recent and long posts on this thread)...but no offense both of those teams sound pretty bad to me, no monks, no spell casters (though i have seen 6 rangers and 2 monks rip up HoH), a spike group (and most likely any balanced groups or necro groups who raise hordes...which i hate) could take out that warrior team, and any ranged (eles, necros, smiting monks...well maybe not mesmers since they ussually are specified to take out spell casters..., and even 2 monks and 6 rangers) unit could take out the ranger team (if all they used were traps and had no monks).

ZD_kusanagi · Jul 06, 2005, 05:25 AM // 05:25

of course any team of just 8 monks would die. traps are meant to take down warriors, or slow them down, or basically make them run. i'm just wondering who the stupid people were who decided to make a pure warrior team.

Are Cane · Jul 06, 2005, 05:28 AM // 05:28

Plus, The Ranger Barbed Trap thingy makes them Bleed and Crippled which makes them easy targets for rangers or any far ranged attacks.

Edit: Flame Trap sets the target(s) on fire I think.

Wow, imaging your burning for a few secs, crippled, bleeding, and blinded from the smoke...and constant pounding arrows from the rangers...No wonder they died so fast.

Deathbow Magee · Jul 06, 2005, 05:29 AM // 05:29

Oh yeah...and just to let you all know there is no one team of anything (balanced or not) that can beat every other team set-up out there. Example 1: all mesmers and beat spell casters but are screwed against warriors or necros who raise 100's of bone minions before the gates even ope n for you to battle (i have been in both situations with an all mesmer group (besides 3 monks). Example 2: spiker groups can dominate alot of other groups but are scrwed against mesmers. Example 3: the more monks you have the longer you can hold a "king of the hill" situation, for they can just heal your hero to the max with heal area and such.

ZD_kusanagi · Jul 06, 2005, 05:37 AM // 05:37

well, I've Had alot of experience with smiting groups. 4 smiting monks,(most of them secondary warrior), three healing monks, and one protection monk. It actually works VERY well. If everybody on the team knows what they are doing, you can rip an enemy team apart very fast. Since the entire team being all monks causes confusion because the enemy doesn't know who the healers are until atleast 20 seconds into the round, if you rush all the time, you have a very hih success rate. and dont say those 8 ranger teams can take down any smiting groups. its called 2 of the monks carrying "shields up".
and of course smiting auras etc, can take down any sprit just as fast as the rangers can throw them out.
So technically, while any one team set up doesn't and can't automatically win any scenario, if you set it up the right way, an odd ball team like all rangers, or all monks, or all mesmers can hold the hoh for many rounds.
on a side note, with this all monk team, i've gone to taking down the standing team holding the Hoh multiple times. So technically, if a ranger team is outfitted right, and since they are technically th jack of all trades, they can take the role of any class, i can really see ranger teams holding the hoh alot. its just that when most people think of range group, they think spam spirits. and i'm not sure if that is really the winning way to go.

David Lionmaster · Jul 06, 2005, 05:40 PM // 17:40

what? rangers are awesome, im a R/E and i can take out any spellcaster one on one. i do have trouble fighting against warriors and other rangers one on one cause i focus on doing as much elemental damage and health degeneration as possible. i only use 2 ele spells, and they are used to make my bow stronger. rangers are really good if u have a specific strategy and dont try to do everyting.

Ristaron · Jul 06, 2005, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Two examples of rangers owning:

Ranger/Warrior 20
Greater Conflagration
Drakescale armour
Bigass sword
One of the best tanks in the game

Ranger/Elementalist 20
Conjure Flame
Fiery weapon
Barrage
A bit of altitude
Hit 6 people for +25 (or more) damage each; take down the front line warriors before they get close (with some help form mesmers of course: conjure phantasm + epidemic... or even have the rangers go apply poison for a volley before doing barrage, mesmers can epidemic the poison).

Until you get later into the game, Rangers are not soloing/tanking material. It's only when they get armour +100 vs elemental (and even more vs. fire) that you can bring in some excellent combos.
And even in the competition arenas, any warrior that gets near me (or the healer I'm defending) has to run through at least two traps and several volleys of barrage before he winds up with dirt thrown in his eyes before he manages to land a hit. By then he's half health and turning to run away.