Curse

Jana · May 24, 2005, 04:49 AM // 04:49

As you can see on the left, I am a monk/mesmer.

This combo of professions (in this way) are tough. They are even tougher fighting a beefed up version of yourself.

After a couple of tries (mostly stalemates), I thought about it. And thought. Then realized what the test was trying to teach me... (scroll below for more...)

(keep scrolling **SPOILERS** )

I learned that my abilities are so good, that giving anyone any of them would kill me, given any kind of offense. So did my mirror.

I learned that I MAY have been over-healing my whole time as a monk. My heals are powerful... more than I know. SO did my mirror.

I learned how to counter a spell. So did my mirror.

But most importantly... I learned that more is not always better.

I did this all by using EXACTLY 2 spells in my hotbar.

Bane Signet & Healing Breeze - As much healing and smiting ability points as I could get.

That's it... the other 6 slots were empty. All I did was fire my staff, fire the bane when it came up and used the healing breeze when it charged up.

So simple. Sometimes the simplest way is the best way.

I learned all this tonight beating my mirror. Sneaky DEVs.

Jana

Aug · May 24, 2005, 02:08 PM // 14:08

All I learned was that the AI isn't as punctual and efficient about using skills as you are.

I beat my mirror with 2 skills: Ice Spear & Reversal of Fortune. Replace Ice Spear with Bane Signet & Banish, and you'd end up with the same result.

Jana · May 24, 2005, 02:12 PM // 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aug

All I learned was that the AI isn't as punctual and efficient about using skills as you are.

I beat my mirror with 2 skills: Ice Spear & Reversal of Fortune. Replace Ice Spear with Bane Signet & Banish, and you'd end up with the same result.

I don't know about that... when I tried with my mesmer counter-spells, it was countering better than I was, and using pretty much everything else just as efficiently, and THEN firing a nasty bow at me.

Anywho, my point is that it had me going trying different combos of everything for a while until I realized that sometimes, the simple, non-complex way to handle something is best.

Jana

jdwoody · May 24, 2005, 02:31 PM // 14:31

retribution and healing breeze is really easy also. The dev's might fix the healing breeze trick just like they fixed reversal of fortune, but I was able to beat my mirror using retribution/reversal of fortune by timing my wand attacks. It just takes alot longer than using healing breeze.

Aug · May 24, 2005, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Does your mirror just not use Healing Breeze? Why is it a 'trick'? I never brought the skill in with me.

Jana · May 24, 2005, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aug

Does your mirror just not use Healing Breeze? Why is it a 'trick'? I never brought the skill in with me.

It does not use Healing breeze as often as you will (every 10 seconds it is ready to cast). In fact... it will cast it MAYBE once or twice the whole fight. Which from an AI perspective, is more logical than spamming the skill.

heh.

Yet another reason why AI logic is flawed in the real world until a specific command is given to do something.

Jana

wgregory87 · May 24, 2005, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Mislabled thread. I don't see how this is a spoiler in any way..........
Cool though.

Jana · May 24, 2005, 03:38 PM // 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by wgregory87

Mislabled thread. I don't see how this is a spoiler in any way..........
Cool though.

Because there ARE people who would rather try to figure it out for themselves.

It's just common courtesy.

Jana

Aug · May 24, 2005, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jana

It does not use Healing breeze as often as you will (every 10 seconds it is ready to cast). In fact... it will cast it MAYBE once or twice the whole fight. Which from an AI perspective, is more logical than spamming the skill.

heh.

Yet another reason why AI logic is flawed in the real world until a specific command is given to do something.

Jana

How is this a reason AI is flawed in the real world "until a specific command is given to do something"?

AI is only as good as it's programmed to be. Which, with that specific skill, wasn't great. They could easily have programmed the AI to repeatedly use Healing Breeze whenever the enchantment wore off, without requiring a specific command to be given.

I know this, because the AI already uses Shatter Enchantment and Backfire immediately whenever their target casts an enchantment or dispels Backfire. The same logic could've been applied to Healing Breeze... it apparently was not, which makes it a great loophole for all primary and secondary Monks.

I wouldn't say you defeated your Mirror by reverting to simpler measures... you just found an area where you functioned more efficiently and punctually than the AI... like I originally said.

SoTzuMe · May 24, 2005, 08:55 PM // 20:55

thx for the tip, Breeze and Bane Signet did the trick first try =) Just gotta bane and interrupt before he gets breeze up.

Ensign · May 24, 2005, 09:44 PM // 21:44

There are a bunch of fun AI tricks you can pull with a Monk/Mesmer, if you're willing to dip into that Mesmer part for Backfire. The AI will happily cast through Backfire without a second thought, and you can ruthlessly abuse this for fun and profit.

Heal Area is fun, as is Divine Boon (which you can re-cast to heal yourself). Healing Breeze has that stated AI problem. Scourge Healing is also rather amusing if you milk it right.

I still keep coming back to stupid tricks that make them cast through Backfire, though. I'm thinking something like Backfire + Wastrel's Worry + a ton of dumb stances. Cast Backfire on them, they'll do the same to you, then spam stances as he spams WW on you through Backfire. The other fun option is to make them stand in AoE - Elementalists with Meteor Shower and/or Maelstrom have a really easy time.

Peace,
-CxE

Axehilt · May 25, 2005, 02:55 AM // 02:55

I tricked my Monk primary mirror an entirely different way:

Two Necro Curses which didn't affect me much - Shadow of Fear and Faintheartedness.
Zealot's Fire.
Smite Hex and Remove Hex.

Then I didn't use the curses at all (allowing the AI to waste his mana on low-impact curses) and simply removed them with Zealot's Fire on me, dealing damage with every removal (and healing, due to Divine Favor.)

dargon · May 25, 2005, 04:16 AM // 04:16

I took 4 pet skills, but being the type of quest, no pet

. Along with those I took Defile Flesh and Plague Sending a couple of nice necro sacrifice skills that again did nothing since I owuldn't be healing and neither of us would have a condition. Finally I took winter and storm chaser. Again winter did nothing though my mirror casted it right off the bat. Storm chaser I used to gain the high ground from which point my arrows did more damage than his. The funny thing is, right at the end, he probably would have beaten me, but he decided to sacrifice a little health and my last arrow did the rest

dansamy · May 25, 2005, 04:24 AM // 04:24

Thank you! Believe it or not, my elmo was having difficulty with this today. I modified your stategy a tiny bit. I used Bane Signet, Aura of Restoaration and Healing Breeze. Longer fight than I wanted to make it, but in the end, I won.

Delphi Maestro · May 25, 2005, 06:28 AM // 06:28

i find that beating mirror is easy if your a mesmer
just make sure u have like 2 or 3 interrupts
but make sure you equip POWER LEAK
the mirror would cast a spell right at the start of the battle
just proceed to counter it with power leak, and you
ve got him pinned down to about 10 energy
follow it up with power spike or something else on his next spell and he's outta mana
then you can take him down pretty easily
with conjure phantasm + shatter delusion and other skills
i used my Me/N with a practically full Domination Build
didn't use any nec skills in the match

Interregnum · May 25, 2005, 04:58 PM // 16:58

If you're a Me/N, especially a domination build...wouldn't it be faster to cast backfire and load up on sacrifice spells?

That way your mirror sacrifices life to take damage from backfire.

Valerius · May 25, 2005, 07:29 PM // 19:29

dude... i can't do this...

i'm using Bane Signet and Healing Breeze like u said u did... but i just die to fast from his arrows....

i have 14 in Healing Prayers and 8 in Smiting... but even with all that regen his arrows do to much to me...

what am i doing wrong?...

funbun · May 25, 2005, 08:41 PM // 20:41

Yeah, I've tried strategy after strategy and everything I've tried the AI just kills me.

The closest I've come is using Storm of Chaos, Archane Echo, and Breeze.

I pump myself full of Breeze and Echo before the match. When he casts Chaos I move out of the way. Then I blast him 2x with Chaos. He still beat me but I did much better and i only had 4 point in domination.

I wonder if the Mirror quest should be different for monks. We spend 20 - 100 hours healing and protecting and keeping our groups alive and then at the end we are being asked to kill? That sounds wrong.

Are warriors being asked to heal? No. I think the mirro test should be changed for monks. We are the onlky group who doesn't take life as our primary profession. I think it's unfair to ask us to do something in the for which we haven't even been trained.

DavenXion · May 25, 2005, 09:08 PM // 21:08

I don't know if its because I have a good skill set and know how to use it or because I have a horrible skill set and a better axe then my mirror, but my W/N cut through my mirror self in less then a minute

funbun · May 25, 2005, 09:22 PM // 21:22

It seems that Monks have the hardest time beating thier mirror for the reasons mentioned above. As a warrior your job is to take hits and do the whole HULK SMASH routine. Monk are just the opposite: we give life, and can't take many hits.

As a warrior, your mirror test was exactly what you've been trained to do, take hits and deal lots of damage.

As a monk, I am a fish out of water. I am now being asked to do a warrior's/damage dealer's job. That isn't fair. And I don't think it's true test of a monk's skill.

It's like asking a helicopter to fly faster than the speed of sound. No, a helicopter has a different job than a super fast fighter jet. Why should a helicopter be asked to pulled 9Gs in the simulator? He's is never gonna pul 9Gs in a helicopter.

The monk mirror test is inadequate. GW should change it.