Curse

nohooiam · Jul 10, 2005, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Just wondering what everyone thinks is important regarding winning in PvP.

One thing i noticed after really getting into PvP is that location/position of players, especially when done correctly (body blocking, taking higher ground, casting spells through walls, etc) makes a world of difference in PvP.

any thoughts?

arnansnow · Jul 10, 2005, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Teamwork is very important.

Loviatar · Jul 10, 2005, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnansnow

Teamwork is very important.

complimentary builds and like the above said teamwork

Edge Martinez · Jul 10, 2005, 10:39 PM // 22:39

Something I find often? Plans aren't worth crap. Ok... so they are worthwhile and most definitely needed, but once the fight starts the leader has to know exactly whats going on, because staying on plan doesn't guarantee a victory, but knowing when to abandon a plan (even if it is working at the moment) could make all the difference.

drowningfish999 · Jul 10, 2005, 11:20 PM // 23:20

Knowing how to use your build effectively.

Racthoh · Jul 10, 2005, 11:47 PM // 23:47

Everytime I used a plan or teamspeak, we lost.

If you plan is take out the monks first but it turns out the monks are actually the ?/mo and the mo/? are smiting... you'll be slightly confused would you not?

A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. Never rely heavily on one character, that is just asking for trouble. Ask ahead of time who will probably need more healing, or who can heal themselves. I would have everyone who can spare a spot bring in a res signet (unless you're a monk).

If you're a warrior... stop attacking the monk who seems to get healed by your attacks... as well watch out for that Shield of Judgement...

Minwanabi · Jul 11, 2005, 03:26 AM // 03:26

Always have one leader, usually someone experienced with the team build as a whole, someone with a lot of experience in PvP, and a non-monk, non-melee. This person isn't usually the target caller, either, but needs to dictate a constant stream of orders for every avenue of the build, and everyone needs to follow his orders instantly. This takes a lot of the human error out of needing to coordinate spikes, for instance, amongst other aspects of the build needing coordinating. With only 8 people, and assuming that they're competent, doing as much micromanagement as is needed with good players is easy, and effective.

Bast · Jul 11, 2005, 05:43 AM // 05:43

Kill them before they kill you.

Chaynsaw · Jul 11, 2005, 06:46 AM // 06:46

Enchantment removal, burst damage, battlefield awareness, good target calling, and voice chat.

xaanix · Jul 11, 2005, 07:44 AM // 07:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minwanabi

Always have one leader, usually someone experienced with the team build as a whole, someone with a lot of experience in PvP, and a non-monk, non-melee. This person isn't usually the target caller, either, but needs to dictate a constant stream of orders for every avenue of the build, and everyone needs to follow his orders instantly. This takes a lot of the human error out of needing to coordinate spikes, for instance, amongst other aspects of the build needing coordinating. With only 8 people, and assuming that they're competent, doing as much micromanagement as is needed with good players is easy, and effective.

/agree

this guy knows what he's talking about, i'm impressed. I do happen to do both target calling and tactics calling for my team though, and i'm melee. Other than that your comments pretty much fit my experiences.

Donnie · Jul 11, 2005, 09:59 AM // 09:59

Your guys should be familiar with as many of the skills as possible, so if you see somebody use something or see something happen, you can know what to do about it. For example if you play a spirit spam team, trying to read all the descriptions of whatever 990000 spirits you have on you can be tough in the middle of a battle q8]

The second most important thing is, don't kill all your teammates with the catapult thing.

Moskel · Jul 11, 2005, 02:10 PM // 14:10

Having a leader that knows what 'tools' his team has available and then is able to quickly figure out what needs to be done in order to defeat the opponent that just showed up in front of you.

Having a team that listens to the leader even if the order sounds 'stupid' to them. You have to assume your leader has a plan that includes your victory so do whatever you are asked to do even if it doesn't make sense at the time.

Team members that have good battlefield awareness. I.E. if you are fighting a spike team they look for walls to hide behind if they don't require LOS or as a Warrior watching your health and location in relation to the Monks, if you are overextending let the monks know so they don't accidentally chase up to you to heal, let them know you'll circle back into their range if you require healing.

Each subset of your build should eliminate or be aware of skill overlaps, I.E. 3 monks with healing seed, doesn't do much good if they all burn it on the same target. This will always be true on a scripted, well planned out team but some of the best teams come from 8 characters being put together with people who are comfortable using the skills they have in front of them.

Dan_bo · Jul 11, 2005, 02:16 PM // 14:16

Haveing a good Leader and all attacking the same person at once they die a hell of alot quicker..And basically just listen to your leader "caller"

Bazooka · Jul 11, 2005, 02:40 PM // 14:40

There's nothing you can do against a counter. In this game, there are counters to counters. Try not to get frustrated and drive on.

However, if all other things are equal,I would say the most important factors to winning PvP are teamwork and communication.

eventhorizen · Jul 11, 2005, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Timing, co-ordination, observation, planning, execution and experiance.

eventhorizen · Jul 11, 2005, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Oh and aggression.

Deathlord · Jul 11, 2005, 05:53 PM // 17:53

The before-hand plan tends to be a very broad spectrum and doesn't neccesarily help decide a win or a loss. I find that being able to communicate while during a battle by means of either TS or Ventrillo helps significantly. Not everything's always going to go according to plan, and the battle tends to go towards the team that can adjust the best. I'm sure that there are more than thousands of teams out there that may have similar builds, but their teamwork, self-abillities, and abillity to adjust are what make them win battles.

Tellani Artini · Jul 11, 2005, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Someone else said it, but just to reiterate: know every single skill in the game. Play extensively as every profession to learn what it's like. See the strengths and weaknesses of each class firsthand. Only then will you be able to identify the enemy's strategy and hit it where it will hurt the most.

The Man · Jul 11, 2005, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

Everytime I used a plan or teamspeak, we lost.

If you plan is take out the monks first but it turns out the monks are actually the ?/mo and the mo/? are smiting... you'll be slightly confused would you not?

A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. Never rely heavily on one character, that is just asking for trouble. Ask ahead of time who will probably need more healing, or who can heal themselves. I would have everyone who can spare a spot bring in a res signet (unless you're a monk).

If you're a warrior... stop attacking the monk who seems to get healed by your attacks... as well watch out for that Shield of Judgement...

Are you saying you held HoH or won a guild battle without ts/vent? If so, you are lieing or everyone was in the same room, so you could hear eachother without mics.

Most important in pvp? Communication.

nechronius · Jul 11, 2005, 10:35 PM // 22:35

There's so many keys to winning. You can write books on the subject. Heck, they've already been written. Take the classic Art of War, for instance.

"Know yourself and know your enemy and you will be victorious."

It seems cliched but that really is the foundation for success. Understand what your team is capable of, its strengths and weaknesses. Try to learn about your opposition's aspects as quickly as possible while minimizing your casualties. Think on your feet and understand that battle plans often need to change at the drop of a hat. This just scratches the surface of what you need to win consistently, not even counting player skill, Timing, communication, terrain, diversity, etc etc.