Curse

Skrilling · Jul 13, 2005, 04:21 AM // 04:21

For quite a while my goal has been to make a pet build that actually worked in some fashon in a pvp setting. I figured i would measure my success by seeing if i could go a respectable amount of consecutive wins in the random teams areana and I finnaly did it. Heres the build I did the best with:

Beastmatery: 16
Marksmanship: 9
Expertise: 11

Ferocious Strike (E)
Feral lunge
Scavenger Strike
Disrupting lunge
Call of Haste
Res sig
Charm animal
Comfort animal

Now, even though i made it an ok distance compared to my other chars (3 tries, 2 wins, 5 wins, 6 wins), there are still several "problems" (perhaps a better term is disadvantages) with a pet build, but not nessesarily what I had thought they would be. There were also a few combos i hadn't thought about before going on my quest that could be very advantagous.

First i will explain my particular build and why everything is where it is before going into general things about beastmastery.

Ferocious Strike (E): At 16 BM this hits for +29 and gives you 10 energy and some unknown amout of adrenaline (i'm guessing 1 strike, but I never mixed BM and adrenaline). For 3 or so energy and a recharge of 8 sec, you can keep your energy supply up using even the most expensive of pet skills. It is the second hardest hitter in this build, and fairly strong compared to the rest of the BM skills.

Feral lunge: This causes bleeding and hits for a little bonus damage as well. Bleeding is fun, but this skill is also in here to set up for the next skill:

Scavenger Strike: This is the hardest hitting weapon in your arsenal if your target is bleeding (or anything else if your team chips in) and not too shabby if yout target doesn't have any conditions. This will make a large dent, even in a warrior.

Disrupting lunge: My new favorite disrupt. Not only does it disrupt, it hits for bonus damage and its one of the disrupts that adds 20 sec to the recharge of the disrupted spell. But the best part is that you can do this every 5 sec (or just about every shot with quickening zeph). I use this to grind monks to a halt in their healing abilities because if you just use it as a normal pet attack, you're bound to hit orison or something equally painfull at some point, after which you won't see it again for +20 sec. Then you hit the next spell and the next and so on till they run. Which doesn't work because of the next skill:

Call of Haste: As long as you remember it every 30 sec, this is a constant sprint. It also increases attack speed so that you can get your disrupt in that much faster. Its also a shout, so you can use it together with stances like whirling defence and simbiotic bond. All in all, keeps those track stars in check. I played with pin down and maiming strike for cripple but its really a waste of space with this on. People may still out run you, but they can't outrun you constantly. And if they aren't fighing or casting, then you've effectivly made them dead anyway. You can mop up later.

Res sig: yeah.

Charm animal: uh huh.

Comfort animal: The funny thing is, when i started i thought my animal would get attacked a bunch. Not the case most of the time. HOWEVER, there are some HIDEOUS, pet hating people that will occasionally take a swing at your pet. If your pet dies, you are useless, hence the res, and the heal for 110 as fast as orison.

On to the general notes.

As you may notice, i don't have any healing or dodging capabilities at all. Welcome to many elementalists worlds. This character isn't a front running battle tank with a side kick, its the supervisor of a superhero. So, act like Lois Lane and hide, ur bow sucks anyway. And remember, pet attacks have a longer range than any bow in existance. I've made attacks where i couldn't see my pets name holding down alt. You can even attack thru walls, if your pet is on the other side of the wall. But on a more serious note, THIS MAY BE BALANCED. When a warrior finds me hidding and rushes me (not much else hurts with the disrupting), IF my pet gets there soon, i can do enough damage to take out most warriors. If its a warrior monk, disrupt the heal sig and the mending, make him bleed and pound the heck out of him. And yes, with a pet attacks for every attack that are happening 25% faster than they should, it hurts even a warrior. If you get gangbanged, theres not much you can do, but again, if you're a pure hammer aftershock war with the backbreaker combo, sprint, res sig and therefore no room for heal sig or anything else, you go down quick too. And nobody complains that they're too weak.

Some problems with BM

The biggest pet peave (i'll laugh even if you don't) with BM (and has been with most people) is targeting. Lets go back to to where you just got spotted by a warrior. The deciding factor in that fight is how fast your pet gets to your aid (how fast superman can fly to save lois lane). Even though you have targeted the warrior and are shooting at him and telling your pet to use pet attacks against him, he may not come. Its sad when you see your pet demolishing someone else with all the pet attacks in the world as you frantically call them out WHILE TARGETING THE WARRIOR to try to get his attention. But when he does come, the warrior is in trouble.

Lastly, as a balance issue, some people belive that the pet should be this weak because you bring an extra person to the court. The only logic supporting this is that there are 2 entities (you and your pet), and therefore 2 people, and therefore you outnumber a normal person and things should be done to correct that. I don't believe this is the case. Heres a couple arguments to shoot this theory down:

1) If ever there is a "pick your parter and dance" style 1v1 dueling areana, a beastmaster would not outnumber the opponent because it is one skill set of 8 vs one skill set of 8. Your pet brings nothing to the table but opportunity. The added damage of the pet is made up for in the use of a skill slot (charm animal).

2) On a kind of role playing base, you and your pet do not act separatly, you have a bond that make you act as one. Similarily, if your opponent kills one or the other, both become useless. In this sence, the beastmasters advantage of more than one entity is made up for by the fact that he has to defend both equally in order to survive.

Anyway, any comments or questions on how to react to certain situations as a pet dude are welcome. It can be done, its just a little awkward.

MCS · Jul 13, 2005, 06:48 AM // 06:48

:\ Random arenas aren't exactly the greatest place to test something.

Before they added the jump to team arenas after 10 wins I did 87 consecutive wins with 2 people in my team using premade chars.

Premade chars suck

.

Anyhoo this would still be fun in random arenas.

HappyHands · Jul 13, 2005, 04:06 PM // 16:06

I've been working on my Ranger (pve) hoping to get to pvp. The only pleasure missing is the lack of damage numbers above whatever my pet's whacking on. I've done arenas on my Monk-primary, and did GvG last night for the first time--I could counter anything any of the casters were throwing at me, so it was the rangers and warriors that rode me the hardest. If one of the rangers had a pet he would have killed me since he was the one that made me eat the last half of my energy bar...

With my ranger, I've noticed that the pet bleed and interrupt work nicely, though the interrupt is less reliable than distracting shot.

I've got points in Wilderness and a minimum number of points in marksmanship to be able to wield a decent bow.

All things considered, the pet master/ranger is balanced. The skill-slot real estate to make your pets viable through out the game, plus the slow attack speed of bows, the chance for miss, and the necessary line of sight add up.

The thing about having two targets might be a mistake. Because of the pet's AI, it makes more sense to finish off what your pet's attacking so that it will return as quickly as possible to assist with whatever's on you provided you can tank that long. When my pet dies, it's really sad, and crippling, so I've committed two slots for bow damage as a contingency.

I'm curious why you put so many points in expertise when it's not really helpful for beast mastery. I don't think too many of the skills have the energy reduction--but let me know if I'm wrong. My ranger's level 15 atm, so I might be missing something.

I would have never though about putting call of haste on a pet for pvp... that could really hurt a caster who's focused on damaging real people--and will try to run instead of killing it.

lanilifar · Jul 13, 2005, 04:29 PM // 16:29

I have had great success with pets in 4 vs 4 arenas.
I believe pets might be able work in tombs and GvG, but it would require at least 2 rangers with pets and preferably 3 or 4. This way Call of Haste is more ensured to never be down and one of the rangers could bring call of protection and maybe even Otyughs. I think it might be best to forgo Comfort Animal in a build around pets and have 2 rangers bring Revive animal. Let the monks heal, it is their job. The other team either ignores the pets and the monks heal the people, or the other team attacks the pets and the monks heal the pets.
The big problem I see with pets is they are very succeptible to AoE. Start attacking the smiting monk and your pets could drop real fast. Earthquake is also very popular and could really cause devestation.
One of these days I am bound to find people willing to try it, just to see if it is viable.

Bazooka · Jul 13, 2005, 04:53 PM // 16:53

I'm from the old-skool that still thinks pets suck for PvP but I'm willing to give it a shot for the sake of fun. Thanks for the research

Darkest Dawn · Jul 13, 2005, 05:58 PM // 17:58

I think it's great! I am playing a ranger primary now and have a bear pet. While not as gung-ho about going all BM, I really would like a strong pet and I think you have at least made a case that it is possible.

GranDeWun · Jul 13, 2005, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Problem with pets in PvP - think about it from the pet's point of view. You are basically a great W, but there is this soft 'controller' character out there...and if he dies, you lose your skill set. Hmmm.

Skrilling · Jul 13, 2005, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Yes you are a soft controler, but look at it from a casters view. You have a pet interupting every other shot. I'm not going to let myself be hit by chain lightning if i can avoid it. Your big challenge is warriors and occasionally rangers, though i don't have as much trouble with them as warriors. With 16 BM like i had, warriors take a ton of damage, and i mean any warrior. I went up against and killed several W/Mo during my 3 trys run and more since then. Heres why: pet damage by itself isn't much. I'll be honest, if you just bring a pet alone with no pet attacks, the damage may not be enough to justify the skill slot. However, the pet attack adds direct numbers onto that damage.

Let me illustrate this. As a caster, straight pet damage may hit you for (just a random number) 25 damage a shot. Now lets look at a warrior. You have increased aromor so the initial attack hits for about 13, but you have an absorb rune, so it hits at the most for 5. However, if you add a pet attack (@ 16 BM i'd say the average set up pet attack adds 25) then you get hit for 30. You are also getting plincked by a ranger with a horrible bow, so we'll say 5 there as well. The effect is the same as getting hit be illusionary weaponry for about 30 a shot at 25% faster for your pet + a little extra from you. Add bleeding and maybe poison (notice, the most reliable way for a ranger to get bleeding and poison at the same time btw), interrupt the heal sig and other toys, and that warrior better have backup soon or be dealing a ridiculous amount of damage to kill you, like a hammer war (and notice, if you get knocked down, the pet still goes, so even this is sometimes a close fight). I feel that every class should have at least 1 build that can beat them 1v1 anyway, so i find this acceptable. A way to avoid this is to bring maiming strike and force them to fight your pet, but i haven't been able to justify bringing this in place of another slot.

palak · Jul 15, 2005, 04:17 AM // 04:17

Pets while they seem badass in theory, and even in 4v4 arenas, suck ass in gvg and tombs. The problem being that they constantly get stuck and body block the wars in your group from getting to the ppl. They also stop you, anytime you use their skills. If the pathing issues and ability to better target with pets were fixed they would be a very viable option. Untill then though I would just ignore them.