Curse

Rey Lentless · Jul 02, 2005, 08:00 AM // 08:00

Can you name a game where healers aren't the most vital part of the team? I can't. I agree with you, but that's asking a lot.. and how would you do it? I think the general consensus is.. both teams have healing.. so it's balanced.

This game does do a good job of providing all professions with healing though, and I think that's another strong move by the developers. Obviously that doesn't eliminate the need for monks, but it certainly helps.

I think warriors are more ignored than you have been in general. Maybe you have half a team devoted to putting conditions on you that outpace martyr/mend ailment somehow, or have mass hexers snaring/disabling you some way. I'd say if that's the case, your team's in good shape.. since they can't have time to do that.. and still win. I know when I use a monk, I eye conditions on the warriors first, rangers second. Unless a character is dazed, or snared in a bad spot.. the warriors and rangers are first to get condition removal. I'll leave the conditions on the squishes, just to have a better heal from mend ailment if it's needed. Hexes are taken off in priority as well. I'm not going to smite/shatter/inspire off parasitic bond.. but I will get rid of backfire or pacifism. If your team has a few of those, usually the more important hexes won't be lasting long.. for a warrior or otherwise. Obviously if a build is devoted to strongly countering a certain build, then you can overload the normal number of hexes and the like to disable a certain build.

As far as armor level is concerned.. armor adds protection against spells. Watch yourself and armor of earth and anything like it lowers damage from anything but degen.. and lowers it significantly. For example, going from 60 to 100 AL (like with a moderate earth score and using armor of earth), you cut your damage in half. I don't consider that minor.

I think they are a very balanced class and really enjoy playing them. I think part of that might be having plague touch often (when I'm using my pve in pvp), and that really lowers the normal counters that I run into. You might not catch the person you're trying to catch if you get hit with a crippling shot, but you can usually just redirect and cripple the nearest target. And if a ranger blinds you, and you blind him right back.. chances are he won't try it again. Warriors do have weaknesses, but there are answers from the secondary.. from your team.. or you can go all out with even more damage.. with like elementalist or even the smite line.

Doppelganger · Jul 02, 2005, 07:41 PM // 19:41

...Seriously, if you think that warriors have it bad, it's almost impossible as a ranger. While people may pay lip-service to the "oh, rangers are good in PvP" mentality, nine of ten people would rather have a pure mesmer.

danghesquiere · Jul 02, 2005, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Its because many warriors and rangers are pvp templates and dumbasses. Also warriors and rangers are easily replaced. Warriors can be replaced by an earth elementist and monks which are better tankers and do more dmg then warriors also rangers are only needed for spirits posion can be used by necros.

Phades · Jul 02, 2005, 08:18 PM // 20:18

When i said minor, i meant armor of earth had a minor effect for a warrior. When i use it with an elementalist, for example, the damage mitigation effect is quite potent. Watch yourself is a nice skill considering the lowish adrenalin cost, but the range of shouts are too small to really provide benefit towards the group. To be quite honest, it ends up quite frequently as a free buff for anyone in melee, opposed to something to augment the group. In this instance the individuals in melee are already adequatly protected from other melee damage from either basic armor traits (as a warrior) or stances.

In the instance of having a good team cover other players, yeah its a good thing, but typically ive found that the monks are too busy trying to keep themselves or the mesmer alive in pvp. There are also instances where i get out of range, but that is just a temporary thing. For pve condition removal there are a few spots within the game where the condition is applied on every hit (rangers) or is a monster derived effect (end game). In these instances, the condition removal is only effective after the fight is already over.

AL doesnt do alot versus chaos, air, holy, dark, and select earth spells. Actually it does nothing in most instances and protective spirit ends up being a better damage sink.

I agree that the amount of healing spread out through the classes is a step in the right direction. I do think that the healer should have more options to heal and with the divine favor skill combined with many of the condition removal bonus effects, i think they have achieved that. However, the combination of mass snap cast spells, in addition to spells that can/will heal more than 50% of the targets life, with spells that create a tank greater than any warrior or ranger, in addition to having a fairly unique and potent machine for offense, throws it out of balance. I think that if the healing was spread out slightly more, then it wouldnt be as much of an issue of who does the healing or if everyone was relativily self sufficient, instead of creating too many instances where it can take more than 4 people to down 1 person. This only seems to occur with monks in pvp because only monks appear to require being shut down, enchantment removal, and mass damage to remove them in a timly fashion. Generally only one of those is required for any other class.

I agree with your summation that the secondary does help the job a bit in the case of a warior. In the instance of monk and necro, you gain more options to support the warrior function over time. However, i believe that its a failing that only those 2 are really effective at it and it would appear that after having hex, condition, res, and one or two smiting augmentations, that the warrior becomes more of a monk than a warrior. If more solutions were present in the wariror line then it wouldnt be an issue as i see it. Other jobs dont "need" to use the other class in order to perform adequatly. Other jobs can also fake being the secondary job if desired and perform any of them as well as their primary, with the exception of monk healing of course. Divine favor really allows the monks to stand alone here. Warriors appear to be the only job that actually needs the secondary in order to ensure their performance on a adequate level. Unfortunatly, these secondary choices are fairly limited as well.

Hell Marauder · Jul 02, 2005, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by danghesquiere

Its because many warriors and rangers are pvp templates and dumbasses. Also warriors and rangers are easily replaced. Warriors can be replaced by an earth elementist and monks which are better tankers and do more dmg then warriors also rangers are only needed for spirits posion can be used by necros.

Likewise, with your logic, a warrior that can deal elemental damage with their weapons can replace an elementalist, right?? Better yet, a warrior can equip with 4 weapons with three different elemental damage plus one with regular physical damage, and is imho more flexible in types of damage dealing than an elementalist who usually only specializes in one or two elements.

Don't put ranger in the same category with dumb warriors. We rangers don't need anybody else, period. If GW can give us 5 ranger henchies, a good ranger doesn't even need a monk. Have you seen how henchie Reyna stays alive the longest and helps to rez Alesia all the time ??

Warrior can do lots of damage if they use the right weapons, same goes with rangers with different bows. Many creatures in pve and player armor in pvp are tailored to resist particular elements and susceptible to others. Using the right weapon on opponents least resistant to can allow warriors be effective damage dealers. Seeing a warrior suck thread makes me laugh. Is there any class in GW that doesn't suck in one way or another??

Malchiel · Jul 02, 2005, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Marauder

Likewise, with your logic, a warrior that can deal elemental damage with their weapons can replace an elementalist, right??

Don't put ranger in the same category with dumb warriors. We rangers don't need anybody else, period. If GW can give us 5 ranger henchies, a good ranger doesn't even need a monk. Have you seen how henchie Reyna stays alive the longest and helps to rez Alesia all the time ??

Warrior can do lots of damage if they use the right weapons. Many creatures in pve and player armor in pvp are tailored to resist particular elements and susceptible to others. Using the right weapon on opponents least resistant to can allow warriors be effective damage dealers. Seeing a warrior suck thread makes me laugh. Is there any class in GW that doesn't suck in one way or another??

Uh... that's coz rangers are so useless, even the mobs know not to target one out right =P

But honestly, ranger is very versatile class that can really excel in almost everything they do: dmg, interrupt, dis enchant etc.

Only thing is that, they require special team build, to accomodate one, because no one knows what you'll be running. For example if you're into spirits, and you cast nature renewal w/o telling your group, it can be disasterous.

Rangers are good, but few play it well.

As for warriors, screw pick up w/mos.

Hell Marauder · Jul 02, 2005, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malchiel

Uh... that's coz rangers are so useless, even the mobs know not to target one out right =P

.

There are instances Reyna dies before others, especially when she got caught in a corner. I think it has more to do with ranger's mobility, and the fact that they stay back, being able to move around faster and with excellent healing skills of their own helps survival.

Phades · Jul 02, 2005, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malchiel

Uh... that's coz rangers are so useless, even the mobs know not to target one out right =P

But honestly, ranger is very versatile class that can really excel in almost everything they do: dmg, interrupt, dis enchant etc.

Only thing is that, they require special team build, to accomodate one, because no one knows what you'll be running. For example if you're into spirits, and you cast nature renewal w/o telling your group, it can be disasterous.

Rangers are good, but few play it well.

As for warriors, screw pick up w/mos.

A ranger has enough diversity in their skills to allow for the addition of a ranger to any style of group. The "spirit" builds are trick builds and require some considerations, but even many of the different spirits can be used in non-specific builds.

A warrior on the other hand does one of two things. The warrior either runs up to someone and tries to do good damage over time to one target and attempts to spike damage with adrenalin skills, or the warrior tries to disrupt with knockdown skills. Any kind of hidden protector role is relagated to only w/mo and can be removed. A disenchanter would be possible with w/me or w/n, but could easily outstrip the warrior mana regeneration over time and would be better as a necro or mesmer primary, as with most other themes using the warriror as a disguise.

audioaxes · Jul 03, 2005, 01:24 AM // 01:24

in both pvp and pve i find a good tank highly useful. I like to have atleast 2 guys out ahead either putting pressure on the enemy or taking some blows which in return take some pressure of me, the monk

AadiD · Jul 03, 2005, 07:01 AM // 07:01

Warriors get no respect because few people have ever seen a skilled warrior. I would say I've seen none. This is because almost every idiot playing this game plays a warrior. In PvP I play a ranger almost exclusively, and I've found that warriors are by far the stupidest group of people in the game.

They run over traps after they watch me put them down.
They chase monks around the map even though there is no way to kill them.
They hit "target closest enemy" and then keep trying to kill that same person, no matter how the tactical situation changes.
They continue to chase me after they are pinned, poisoned/bleeding, and being killed by teammates that are closer to them and easier targets.
In all my thousands of PvP kills, I have seen *one* warrior with purge conditions.
They attack other warriors instead of soft targets that are much easier and more valuable kills.
They bunch up on one target with all their team's other warriors, following a ridiculously stupid focus fire strategy, which allows me to blind and trap all of them simultaneously.
They are monk secondaries and they cast Healing Breeze while waiting for the round to start.
They don't rez anyone until they're the last person standing and are down to about 50 health and think they might die. They are right.
They stand there and watch me drop traps next to them, never even trying to interrupt me.
They ignore what the rest of the team is doing.
90something% of them use swords.
They're rangers secondaries and they bring a pet.

In short, my experience with warriors has been an unrelenting moron parade. In fact, in team arena, it's become my policy to never group with warriors. They're uselessly stupid, and I've found that it's easier and wiser to skip them in favor of any other class. A hammer warrior can be handy, but they are rare and usually played poorly as well. I realize that other players with other classes are also hopelessly dumb, but I find warriors to be the most useless of all.

Sorry buddy, every mentally deficient person playing Guild Wars has a warrior. This is why no one wants to take a chance on one.

The Red Knight · Jul 03, 2005, 12:50 PM // 12:50

They run over traps after they watch me put them down.

Yeah id run over your traps then plague touch you so you get bleeding crippled posioned etc
They chase monks around the map even though there is no way to kill them.

Maybe some other newb w/mo can't kill a monk I can?
They hit "target closest enemy" and then keep trying to kill that same person, no matter how the tactical situation changes.

If I see prot spirit go up on a monk I usually try and switch a target up dunno about you
They continue to chase me after they are pinned, poisoned/bleeding, and being killed by teammates that are closer to them and easier targets.
In all my thousands of PvP kills, I have seen *one* warrior with purge conditions.

Shrug most w/mo are pretty bad :B
They attack other warriors instead of soft targets that are much easier and more valuable kills.

Dumb warrior disease

They bunch up on one target with all their team's other warriors, following a ridiculously stupid focus fire strategy, which allows me to blind and trap all of them simultaneously.

Again there fault if they dont bring some sort of condition removal

They are monk secondaries and they cast Healing Breeze while waiting for the round to start.
W/mo sucks nuffsaid? :/

They don't rez anyone until they're the last person standing and are down to about 50 health and think they might die. They are right.
They stand there and watch me drop traps next to them, never even trying to interrupt me.

Maybe there new?

They ignore what the rest of the team is doing.

Heh maybe for competiton arena

90something% of them use swords.

Swords arnt bad its more damage over time and final isnt bad I perfer axe

They're rangers secondaries and they bring a pet.

Maybe newb war/r most w/r ive seen are pretty nasty

Oh and you say most hammer wars play bad? New guildie of mine picked w/e hammer and aftershock never played before and can solo a monk. So not all warriors are created stupidly

Phades · Jul 04, 2005, 07:01 AM // 07:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Red Knight

Oh and you say most hammer wars play bad? New guildie of mine picked w/e hammer and aftershock never played before and can solo a monk. So not all warriors are created stupidly

What kind of monk? They seem to come in many flavors/skill levels. There were times when i came across a monk that fell down rapidly and there were others when id waste my time, regardless of the target i swung at.

Flee · Jul 04, 2005, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arri

I had a R/W melee based in PVP before, everyone was all like "you suck noob! why be R/W???"

I recently started a R/W. I did it due to the armor. 70+30+15 seems nice vs. elementals. So I pose this to experienced GW PVPers....

Wouldn't the ranger armor help the tanking ability vs. elementals?

Because Warrior armor seems to be better vs. physical. and all the love for Air ele's, I figured this would reduce the dmg from the air eles, as well as using Winter and the armor that is +15AL vs. cold, giving 115AL total vs. cold dmg.

Or should I go W/R and have Strength Attribute/Absorbtion rune?

*side note* I found as a Ranger primary, everyone ignores me and doesnt expect me to rush in w/ a sword or axe. tee hee

Kashrlyyk · Jul 05, 2005, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tengoku No Yushosha

I think Warriors are quite helpful. Lets say your have a spellcasting team (-Mesmers, monks, Pyromancers, Aeromancers, Hydromancers etc-) Against a team consisting of 3 monks (-2 healers and 1 protector-) 1 elementalist (-An Aeromancer-) 1 mesmer (-Thats an anti something-) 2 Warriors and 1 Ranger. Since Mages are so fragile and some don't have armor against certain elements, Warriors can take down targets called just as fast as any mage. You see, If a Warrior were hitting a monk, and the monk was running, giving the Warrior a chance to do critical hits. If a Warrior were hitting a non-moving target, the Warrior may not be able to get critical hits, but the Warrior is able to gain faster adreneline, being able to initiate more attacks and then be able to take down the target (-Of course, the rest of the team SHOULD be helping-) Many people just blurt out how the feel without even thinking of how the Warrior's potential is valuable.

Soothing image or charismatic visage (i think it is) and your adrenaline is gone!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

The "paladin" style of warrior is one of the very few choices for condition and hex removal vital to actually be a warrior. It lacks enchantment removal and cramps the skill bar though.

Perhaps it could very easily be that most players dont "suck" but are average to above average and the job could just "suck" more than others. Other jobs require very specific jobs to "shut them down", while every job has means to shut a warrior down. Some even have means to shut groups of warrriors down. Then there is the issue of inconsistant melee combat due to movement and attack animations. The problem lies in the scaling of skill effectiveness tuned for a pve environment rather than a pvp environment, or perhaps a group pvp environment.

I think that is the problem of warrior, every profession can shut them down! A mesmer can actually shut down any other profession to a certain extent!+

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rieselle

As a suggestion, I think warriors need more skills that defend other people. Like "Block 75% melee attacks against adjacent allies" or "Block 75% projectiles against allies that are behind you, etc" - especially if they're adrenaline based and low cost.

So if your monk is getting squished, a warrior can run up in front of him and directly guard him, just like in "real medieval life"

I like that! They would actually be able to tank!

Kriegar · Jul 05, 2005, 09:53 PM // 21:53

Warriors aren't respected in Tombs because 99% of the warriors there are noob idiots. Well played warriors in a decent build with a good team aren't as easy to negate... but you might as well play the lotto than try to find that in a pug.

kungfumonkey2 · Jul 06, 2005, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flee

I recently started a R/W. I did it due to the armor. 70+30+15 seems nice vs. elementals. So I pose this to experienced GW PVPers....

Wouldn't the ranger armor help the tanking ability vs. elementals?

Because Warrior armor seems to be better vs. physical. and all the love for Air ele's, I figured this would reduce the dmg from the air eles, as well as using Winter and the armor that is +15AL vs. cold, giving 115AL total vs. cold dmg.

Or should I go W/R and have Strength Attribute/Absorbtion rune?

*side note* I found as a Ranger primary, everyone ignores me and doesnt expect me to rush in w/ a sword or axe. tee hee

yes there is a build that is just like what you are talking about. It is effective from what I have seen.

BigTru · Jul 07, 2005, 02:18 AM // 02:18

Because most warriors have a "uber damage" build that adds "painful conditions", but in reality, the damage isn't the best and conditions are easily removed.

However, Knockdown Warriors - Now those get a lot of respect and are nothing to mess with.

Krytan Warrior · Jul 11, 2005, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by AadiD

Sorry buddy, every mentally deficient person playing Guild Wars has a warrior. This is why no one wants to take a chance on one.

Hi everyone! I am new to this forum but decided to post after seeing this.

I think it is amusing that people seem to think that if someone is not so good at playing this game they are retards or morons. This is a COMPUTER GAME. Ability in-game has nothing to do with person`s intelligence or mental state. Unfortunately some people think that it has something to do with that. It is very immature to think that way.

Warrior is a very difficult character to play correctly in PvP, but it is entirely possible to fight well in PvP as a warrior. Warriors need good equipment to survive. They need good skills and playing warrior is as hard as playing any other character, mainly because they need to get close in order to be effective, they need adrenaline fast and they have poor armor against spells. They also need skills to interrupt casters.

Sorry my english, I am not a native english speaker but hope you got the point.

stumpy · Jul 11, 2005, 04:46 PM // 16:46

condition removal ...

W/N - plague touch/sending signet whatever its called

W/Mo - goes without speaking

W/R - Antidote signet

W/E - nuts!

warriors can be very useful

Gods Punishment · Jul 11, 2005, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kriegar

Warriors aren't respected in Tombs because 99% of the warriors there are noob idiots. Well played warriors in a decent build with a good team aren't as easy to negate... but you might as well play the lotto than try to find that in a pug.

I think warriors need a good support to be effektiv and if they get it they can be very effektiv. But in random pvp builds for tombs i wouldn't exept a good warrior support, also u need a warrior that isnt a noob and know what will happend if hes blind and what he should do then

I mean 2 Knockdown warriors (warriors cunning, condition selfheal) with necro support like rigor mortis (best skill vs protected tragets i guess), barbs, waeken armour and Dark Furry. Could do a high dmg after all but im also lucky if some1 knows rigor mortis in my team