Curse

Ednemak · Jul 10, 2005, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

Well, for starters, what class can deal the MOST dmg without using any active skills at all? The WARRIOR, hands down...

We deal as much as rangers, except they go ranged.

This of course with no skills

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

What class can keep hitting you with no energy at all and deal UNFAIRLY HUGE amounts of damage? The Warrior.

Are you joking? we need energy to use half the skills, and 20 energy isnt that much, plus if you have mending on you only have 1 mana regeneration

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

And finally, what class can jam you into a corner/wall so you can't escape and you die a horrible death? 1 or 2 warriors...

No, that only happens because monks dont charge at you and attack you with a sword, axe, or hammer...

You have to be pretty bad to die in a corner from a warrior

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

The warrior I believe in this game is THE BEST incarnation of any non-magic type class anywhere. I came from Ragnarok Online. Look at what the Swordsman evolves into from that game and then look at this game's warrior. Wtf?!

...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

Warrior's in this game to me are perfect. My $0.02.

Have you ever played a warrior -_-

Somhairle Isis · Jul 10, 2005, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Actually, I totally agree with the initial poster. Please note the people that are flaming him and telling him to shut up are probably casters.

Makkert · Jul 10, 2005, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ednemak

We deal as much as rangers, except they go ranged.

This of course with no skills

reads....
shakes head.
reads again in disbelief....
shakes head.

wasted space...

as for R/Me: I played random arena quite a bit, and 1v1 does happen quite regurlary there.
i have little problems 1v1 against most players with my ra/mes. funny thing: one ne/mes did own my ass. that just happens to be the class the original poster pointed out, so i was expected high level discussion. unfortunately, that assumption was wrong. but i agree that ne/mes can be a powerfull character therefor. but random arena has its own laws (i.e.: bring a self-heal). just like 4v4 and tombs have their own.

Dreamsmith · Jul 10, 2005, 05:52 PM // 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mhydrian

Flame away.

Translation: I'm a troll, please feed me.

By the way, the original post neither asked any questions on how to counter casters, or offered any strategy. Why is this thread still here in the Strategy Discussion forum? This really isn't the place for posts that are nothing but whining.

Kishin · Jul 10, 2005, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ednemak

We deal as much as rangers, except they go ranged.

This of course with no skills

Are you joking? we need energy to use half the skills, and 20 energy isnt that much, plus if you have mending on you only have 1 mana regeneration

No, that only happens because monks dont charge at you and attack you with a sword, axe, or hammer...

You have to be pretty bad to die in a corner from a warrior

...

Have you ever played a warrior -_-

If you look at his profile, you can clearly see he's a W/N, so a little observation would answer your question. I've argued with Yukito on other threads, but I will say that he pretty much seems to know what he's doing as far as W/N goes.

Warriors do the best sustainable DPS of any class, because of the way their skills rely on adrenaline.

Also, wherever you got the idea that Rangers do as much damage as warriors without skills....well, you're flat out, completely wrong. The SLOWEST warrior weapon (Hammers) still attack faster than the FASTEST bow (Short Bow).
Furthermore, Strength gives warriors innate Armor Penetration.

Um, you don't need energy to use your ATTACK skills, you need Adrenaline, and generally, being that you are a -Warrior-, Attacking is what you should be focused on.

Of course, the mere fact that you bring up Mending proves a good point. Mending blows. Don't use it. If you're going to run a permanent enchant, at least run a useful one. No one attacks Warriors until last unless they are very foolish.

Don't whine because your Paladin pre-made gets smacked around. Instead, maybe its you who should become a better Warrior player before complaining.

knives · Jul 10, 2005, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kishin

If you look at his profile, you can clearly see he's a W/N, so a little observation would answer your question. I've argued with Yukito on other threads, but I will say that he pretty much seems to know what he's doing as far as W/N goes.

Warriors do the best sustainable DPS of any class, because of the way their skills rely on adrenaline.

Also, wherever you got the idea that Rangers do as much damage as warriors without skills....well, you're flat out, completely wrong. The SLOWEST warrior weapon (Hammers) still attack faster than the FASTEST bow (Short Bow).
Furthermore, Strength gives warriors innate Armor Penetration.

Um, you don't need energy to use your ATTACK skills, you need Adrenaline, and generally, being that you are a -Warrior-, Attacking is what you should be focused on.

Of course, the mere fact that you bring up Mending proves a good point. Mending blows. Don't use it. If you're going to run a permanent enchant, at least run a useful one. No one attacks Warriors until last unless they are very foolish.

Don't whine because your Paladin pre-made gets smacked around. Instead, maybe its you who should become a better Warrior player before complaining.

/agree. When I read his post I was like WTF is this guy talking about..

GranDeWun · Jul 10, 2005, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Someone else may want to confirm this but... DOT can stack up at most 10 negative pips. Thats -3.33 hits per second (since I believe each pip is .33 / sec). So in 10 long seconds, you only lose 33.3 dmg. So while DOT is scary, it is not really a killer. In fact, even if each pip were 1 dmg, you would only lose 100 dmg over 10 seconds...

Van the Warrior · Jul 10, 2005, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mhydrian

3) Too much damage done. Necros and the N/me are usually the worst offenders here. Air spikes are just cheesy as hell, seeing as they can shoot through solid objects. But DotS that kill a person in 6 or 7 seconds is retarded. I understand casters are tank killers, but what is a caster killer, or more specifically a Necro killer? More than one person is usually the best and only means. They can stack DOTs, and they have fast, near instant casts on huge damage/drain spells. As a ranger I dont have the hopes of downing a caster in under 10 seconds yet, a caster can do this to anyone else standing behind a wall.

u can 4 hit a necro with air moves

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

I have to slightly agree [very SLIGHTLY] with the opening post, however, it's in my understanding that it is balanced...

Why?

Well, for starters, what class can deal the MOST dmg without using any active skills at all? The WARRIOR, hands down...

ever see rigormortis + weaken armor + perfect sundering axe + default attack with a hint of plauge touch = beatufil dead caster in 5 or less hits

Ogg · Jul 10, 2005, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by GranDeWun

Someone else may want to confirm this but... DOT can stack up at most 10 negative pips. Thats -3.33 hits per second (since I believe each pip is .33 / sec). So in 10 long seconds, you only lose 33.3 dmg. So while DOT is scary, it is not really a killer. In fact, even if each pip were 1 dmg, you would only lose 100 dmg over 10 seconds...

Each pip is 2 health/second. In 10 seconds with -10 pips of degen you can lose 200 health.

Dots alone dont kill. You need more damage tossed in also.

Rangers can achieve -10 pip degen easily. Poison, bleeding, burning. Which is more than -10, but the game counts only to -10.

Btw, this thread is useless. Should be moved to some other part of forum.

my 0.02 gp

arnansnow · Jul 10, 2005, 07:10 PM // 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by GranDeWun

Someone else may want to confirm this but... DOT can stack up at most 10 negative pips. Thats -3.33 hits per second (since I believe each pip is .33 / sec). So in 10 long seconds, you only lose 33.3 dmg. So while DOT is scary, it is not really a killer. In fact, even if each pip were 1 dmg, you would only lose 100 dmg over 10 seconds...

.33 is mana pips, not health. Health is 2 points per pip, so 10 pips is 20 damage. in 10 seconds you would lose 200.

Beoulve · Jul 10, 2005, 07:18 PM // 19:18

There was to much here for me to read,so I am commenting on the author.

Do you actually expect to kill someone as an archer...?

Archers have the most DoT skills in the game, what kind of ranger are you playing?

Stop being bad and trying to kill people as a ranger, you WILL fail.

Edit: Of course unless your build is based around killing one class, like I am right now.

I can kill a caster in under 8 second w/ melandrus arrows because Attunements are enchants, and I am not all that helpful at killing anything else, I think you just need to tweak your build.

Nexx · Jul 10, 2005, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ednemak

Man warriors are a mess

We dont even get invited in the tomb of primeval kings

Everyone is making spike groups with Elementalists and Monks only, sometimes mesmers

Apparently most people here on this forum think warriors are really good and "balanced" like the other classes... but why is it that I hardly see them in areas? Oh well, I'm a noob. I don't have enough experience in PvP to understand how powerful warriors are...

I've been told that warriors are just as good just that no one knows how to play them properly in PvP. Okay. I guess in the mean time, I'll stick with my spike character. At least I get to play. Must mean something I suppose...

Racthoh · Jul 10, 2005, 07:25 PM // 19:25

As someone who has both PvP and PvE experience, I can see how the conclusions have been drawn.

I can make my warrior solo Grawls and Grawl Uyoldyte (spelling?) outside of Draknor's and can with much ease take on several at a time. However, if one of the bosses there spawns as an elementalist, I don't have a prayer. I can't compete against his damage (although if he was level 20 prehaps I could, oh well). But the reason I can do it is for one simple skill: Gladiator's Defense and the like. Skills with the 75% chance to block that the warrior's tactics grants him. That makes sense, the warrior should be the master of combat and should be able to survive when countless foes are engaged in the melee.

What doesn't make sense is why a foe who stays out of combat, should have this same defense. If you're a warrior, it would be hard to dish out the same conditions as a spellcaster unless your brought a hammer (Blind, Knockdown, and I believe Weakness), axe (Wound and Bleeding) and sword (Wound and Bleeding, spike from Final Thrust, interrupt from Savage Slash). In which case you would be far too weak because you wouldn't meet the required level for the weapons. Ward against melee, 50% chance to block. Blind, 90% chance to miss. Weakness making every attack practically mendable. These are just some examples. Compare that to the defensive skills of a warrior:

Note: Each has a 75% chance to block and these are the stats at level 16.
Gladiator's Defense: Elite skill, lasts 11 seconds, deals 37 damage per block against melee. 30 second recharge.
Shield Stance: +24 Armour, Move slowly, must have a shield, lasts 21 seconds. 60 second recharge.
Bonetti's Defense: All melee blocks nets 5 energy. Ends if you use a skill, requires 8 adreneline, lasts 11 seconds.
Disciplinced Stance: +24 Armour, Ends if you use an adreneline skill, 11 seconds. 60 second recharge.
Defensive Stance: +24 Armour, ends if you use a skill, 11 seconds, 45 second recharge.

The trend is very long recharge times and not a whole lot of defensive time. Also note that with the elite Gladiator's Defense, you are limited as to what you can and can't do. Either you're moving slow or can't use skills.

Also note that every defense the warrior has is basically useless in PvP since they aren't targeted until everything else is dead. And when you're finally being attack, it's not like you stand much of a chance any more.

Conditions that affect warriors benefit the entire party. You blind a warrior, your party need not fear him for a while. Your warrior uses one of the above stances, he protects himself only. Note that the shouts are also very limited in strength. "Shield's Up!" and "Watch Yourself!" are about the only party friendly abilities they have, and again their usefulness stretches only so far.

So you'll say tank, go knockdown warrior which seems to be the favoured build (prehaps because there are more hammer skills than sword and axe

). So is that all the warrior has? And in case people haven't realized it yet, knockdown is effective against EVERY class. Even a warrior sitting on the ground for 6 seconds just as useless as the monk, except that the warrior will live longer (well technically speaking he won't since the warrior won't be attacked until last and in which case he'll have hammers, lightning, meteors and the like all pummeling him to death).

I personally use a sword, and yes I can take down monks with some effectiveness. But that was when I was a necro, I doubt I could do it anymore since I switched to a monk (simply so I could use rebirth and get into groups). It takes me about 10 seconds to build up a Galgarath Slash. 10 seconds IF my target isn't running, and I hit every time. Then I have to hope it hits for that extra 35+ damage. If my target is running, it means I have to cut him off, bring in rush/sprint, or Bull Strike to knock them over. A caster can just sit still and wait those 5 seconds for meteor to charge behind the shield of a ward vs. melee and a blinded warrior. Also note that the elementalist could cast the spell ahead of time so it's released right in front of the monk so that once the warrior is doing all a warrior can do, he is being flatened for almost 100 damage.

A warrior can defend against it, Balanced Stance. Seems like a wasted spot to protect against one annoyance when in the long run it won't accomplish too much. And really all that does is allow him not to fall victim to the subsequent meteors. He will still take the close to 100 damage from the initial meteor.

Note that a warrior can't heal his own conditions, merely draw strength from them with skills like "I will survive!" (Elite). A warrior sure can't do anything about hexes though. Oh and also about knockdown being the favoured trend of the warrior, look at shield of judgement. Does what a warrior can do as far as knockdown, and deaks some nice damage. Yes it would be unfair if a warrior could remove hexes and conditions, but the fact that there are so many that cripple them it is just a little unfair.

What also makes little sense to me is a game in which you have two dedicated fighters against four spell casters, there are so many defenses against melee. Just curious. Prehaps my views will change when I eventually make a magic user, but until then I can understand the original posters troubles. But as far as I know it takes but one skill to halt a warrior but several to take down a magic user...

That is my warrior's two cents in his few hundred hours of life.

Whew, thanks for reading

.

Young_Anakin · Jul 10, 2005, 07:34 PM // 19:34

I'm a full blown PvE person........till LAST NIGHT. I first started with my lvl 14 mesmer in Yaks Bend and it was fun we had some good victories but some harsh loses to. Didn't think I would get on my lvl 20 w/mo because I thought " Well.. these people are more polished and experienced then me " and the first couple games I played we lost. But, it didn't take long and we were doing real well. Now, today I have had 10 consecutive victories in a row ( not bragging or by any means saying that is GREAT ) but for me it's good enough cause I never thought I would pvp. Sometimes you go against really good builds that can overwhelm your profession and it sucks but you deal with it and maybe you snatch victory from your opponents grasp when you should of lost. It all depends on ur team's build and your enemies build and how well they know and use their builds. I guess what I'm trying to get at is that Pvp is fun and even when your getting your butt kicked you fight on till you start winning. I haven't tried Tombs yet, but I'm SURE that when I get finished doing Arenas so much I will start doing that to.

Eonwe · Jul 10, 2005, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackace

this post is a waste. Too much misinformation and no numbers to back up the claims.

Zing!

theclam · Jul 10, 2005, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Warriors are the most durable class in the game. Now, if a class has such a great amount of durability, they have to sacrifice something in order to balance out. It stands to reason that they should have less offensive power than casters, because of their great defensive power. If anything, I think that warriors should be glad that they have as much offensive power as they do.

john little · Jul 10, 2005, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

I can make my warrior solo Grawls and Grawl Uyoldyte (spelling?) outside of Draknor's and can with much ease take on several at a time. However, if one of the bosses there spawns as an elementalist, I don't have a prayer. I can't compete against his damage (although if he was level 20 prehaps I could, oh well). But the reason I can do it is for one simple skill: Gladiator's Defense and the like. Skills with the 75% chance to block that the warrior's tactics grants him. That makes sense, the warrior should be the master of combat and should be able to survive when countless foes are engaged in the melee.

What doesn't make sense is why a foe who stays out of combat, should have this same defense. If you're a warrior, it would be hard to dish out the same conditions as a spellcaster unless your brought a hammer (Blind, Knockdown, and I believe Weakness), axe (Wound and Bleeding) and sword (Wound and Bleeding, spike from Final Thrust, interrupt from Savage Slash). In which case you would be far too weak because you wouldn't meet the required level for the weapons. Ward against melee, 50% chance to block. Blind, 90% chance to miss. Weakness making every attack practically mendable.

So you are saying you can solo any boss except an elementalist, and that the class isn't balanced because of this? In PvP if an elementalist is spending time worrying about a warrior then the warrior is doing his job. There are plenty of warrior skills that if an enemy team doesn't use blind/weakness/whatever on a warrior then he/she can seriously disrupt tactics, the warrior in GW seems to be much more about 'threatening' teams and applying pressure rather than necessarily having the best DoT.

I don't see any class as really being unbalanced, some are easier to play than others but equally some are easy to play badly. As for soloing, I think that is one of the reasons why things like ward against melee are in, to force people to bring balanced teams. If there weren't things like blind and weakness, 90% of teams would just be W/Mo's, surely?

Flo · Jul 10, 2005, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Now i only read the first few lines of the first post.. But yeah, cast a few skills aside this game is rediculously balanced. Last night, my guild held hoh without 1 Elementalist in our group

The Red Knight · Jul 11, 2005, 02:52 AM // 02:52

Go play wow then PVP in wow is sure fun and balanced!

eventhorizen · Jul 11, 2005, 03:12 AM // 03:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Principa Discordia

Not sure what game you are playing, but I've not seen 1 vs. 1.

Iv seen plenty