Curse

Jarlaxe · Jul 29, 2005, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Well last time after tons of Spike groups 5air/3monks or 6air/2monks we got tons of ranger builds 5ranger/3monks or 6 ranger/2monks - now my question is how to kill them? for spikers answer is rangers - but what for rangers ? I wish to know exacly team build or most important skills. Thx for help.

Tellani Artini · Jul 29, 2005, 03:04 PM // 15:04

Spirit shackles.

Odd Sock · Jul 29, 2005, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tellani Artini

Spirit shackles.

Don't forget Spirit Shackles is a hex and gets alot of hate nowadays with Nature's Renewal being so grossly overpowered. It can also be removed by far too many cheap skill and unfortunately can't be massively spread out.

Rangers are indeed very hard to counter given that you can't use enchantments as easily as you could before. There's also the issue that you can't effectively deny their energy. A Zealous string combined with high expertise means things like Kindle Arrows or Ignite Arrows and Tiger's Fury are easy to bring back up. Solutions to this under the Nature's Renewal environment are:
- Lots and lots of blind and disable the condition removal skills
- Enfeebling Blood on the rangers
- Shadow of Fear if you want to stand around 4 seconds casting it
- Hide behind obstacles so that arrows don't get to you
- Stances that evade like Shield Stance, Disciplined Stance, etc...
- Fast Cast Aegis if you're that desperate

Rangers becoming so popular these few days are a direct result of one and only skill: Nature's Renewal. Elementalists become laughable under this effect. Warriors aren't as reliable as they were because of Ward Against Melee and people running. Necros and mesmers, despite everything that's going to be replied to this, aren't an effecient damage source. Smite monks are generally weak. All that's left is the ranger because his damage isn't hex or damage based, his counter is Aegis which comes down quite fast after NR or Shield's Up which is equally laughable. They are very versatile strategy wise, their armor isn't too shabby and on top of that you have expertise which makes you resilient to the attrition of long battles.

Until NR will gets fixed to allow more complex strategies involving enchantments and hexes, rangers or a mix of rangers and warriors will remain the only solution despite how bland it is.

Sammiel · Jul 29, 2005, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Does disease spread to spirits as well as players? One thing I was thinking of was having a Me/Mo and Me/N in a team against spirit spammers.

Mo/Me would have:
Smite 12 + 4
Insp 12

Leech Signet
Signet of Humility
Signet of Judgement {E}
Bane Signet
Mantra of Inscription
Mantra of Signets
Balth Aura (to shed mana and do some AE damage)
Res or Rebirth

Now the theory behind this one is that they would have an interrupt up a fair amount of the time between the leech signet, and the knockdown effect of the Signet of Judgement. With the two Mantras, Signet of Judgement would be up a fair amount of the time to stop spirits and do a reasonable chunk of damage. Signet of Humility would be used to stop Oath Shotting.

Character 2
Me/N

Fast Cast 10
Death 12
Curses 9

Signet of Agony
Chilbains
Plague Sending
Rotting Flesh
Epidemic
Virulence {E}
Enfeebling Blood
Rend Enchantments

This guy would just be a condition spreader. Against normal teams this may not be too effective, but condition removal would be slightly harder I think on a spirit spam team. The rangers could drop troll unguent, but all that would do is slow the degen to a more resonable value. The one issue I see is mana. It may be prudent to change the non-necro class to Monk and swap Virulence for Martyr too. That way the necro could kill two birds with one stone at the cost of epidemic. If conditions don't work on spirits this might be less effective, but I still think it may have potential.

BigTru · Jul 29, 2005, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Spirits are not effected by Conditions, Hexes, or Enchantments. Not Malandru's style to use all that fancy crap

ComMan · Jul 29, 2005, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Stick to your strategy and fight them like any other group. Don't try to kill the spirits, it's a waste of time.

Don't be in a spike group.

JoDiamonds · Jul 29, 2005, 06:35 PM // 18:35

I hereby declare that spirits should be affected by Conditions, Hexes and Enchantments. You listening, Arena? =)

Cymboric Treewalker · Jul 29, 2005, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoDiamonds

I hereby declare that spirits should be affected by Conditions, Hexes and Enchantments. You listening, Arena? =)

LOL.

Should undead be affected by all those things too?

Spirits should be affected by those that appear to apply.

Tellani Artini · Jul 29, 2005, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Yeah, because we all want to see death nova on spirits, right? Talk about a minefield.

Cymboric Treewalker · Jul 29, 2005, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tellani Artini

Yeah, because we all want to see death nova on spirits, right? Talk about a minefield.

Yeah given that example I say spirits should be left as is.

Darc.Syde · Jul 29, 2005, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Shields Up!, Watch Yourself!, and Aegis...

though aegis kinda gets removed by NR, you will have it for 5 seconds.

Phades · Jul 29, 2005, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Unless everyone was in melee range of the shouter, the first two are pretty pointless. Even though its uncommon, i havent really found a way to effectivly deny AOE arrow effects. They still seem to strike unless you manage to move out of where the AOE would land. In which case, you arent doing much other than running around at long range anyhow.

Darc.Syde · Jul 29, 2005, 07:05 PM // 19:05

why? is it THAT unorthodox to run it on a monk or other backline caster?

just becuase it's a warrior skill, doesnt mean it only works on warriors....

Phades · Jul 29, 2005, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Ward against harm would be easier to run on a backend character for the AL instead of adrenalin build via ranged attack. While working with ranger refresh times makes more sense in the case of ageis, instead of trying to work around them, while at the same time having more comprehensive coverage for defense.

Darc.Syde · Jul 29, 2005, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Ward vs harm does 2 things. make you use an elite, and put points into the water line. in the current meta-game, the water line kinda sucks due to the spells being hexes.

Ensign · Jul 29, 2005, 08:04 PM // 20:04

"Shields Up!" isn't reliable as it only adds armor vs. piercing, and if they're running with Kindle Arrows, Greater Conflagration, an elemental string, or a bunch of things really, they'll ignore that part of the effect - so all you get is a mediocre block effect on a long cooldown.

Watch Yourself! is as useful here as it is against any offense.

The biggest problem with both of these is that you give up your Monk's secondary and generally make your energy awful in the process. Particularly against a good Ranger team that's running a bunch of Debils.

Aegis is solid if you can time it right. Problem, again, is the downtime.

The best solution is simply running and taking advantage of the terrain. Rangers need that line of sight to be effective, so if you can quickly dodge behind a wall or split up from the other Monks to make them run around, you're neutralizing their offense and giving you a very good chance of winning. The use of terrain has never been more important than it is right now - learn to use it and love it.

Peace,
-CxE