Curse

Yukito Kunisaki · Jul 22, 2005, 07:57 AM // 07:57

Interruption Mesmer: must baby sit and mostly uses interrupts such as Power X. Can easily focus on one, but not on many.

Energy Stealing Mesmer: focuses all energy stealing on one energy heavy target. Either monk or Ele. Uses energy to shut down non-casters. Steals energy again to shut down single caster. Can he be used to shut down and drain multiple efficiently?

Hex Disruption Mesmer: Interrupts and shuts down through hexes like Diversion, Shame, Guilt, etc. Easily used on many foes but can be thwarted by enemy not doing anything for 10+ seconds. Is that wait time worth it? I'm not too sure.

I know how to make builds to fit these three roles but I want the mesmer that can handle casters easily without baby sitting. I'm currently avoiding interruptor for now cause my warrior seems better at it with disrupting chop. [that or I'm just lucky]

What would you suggest would be most beneficial to an 8v8 group? I'm certain 4v4, the Energy Eater would be just fine since it's 4 people, chances of their being nothing but casters isn't too high I hope.

But in 8v8, I think the interruptor through hexes might be the best since he/she can just hex multiple enemies and force them to shut out.

Someone tell me what would benefit my guild the most that isn't too hard to manage...? ^_^

Zeru · Jul 22, 2005, 08:47 AM // 08:47

Energy denial is very good but Mes isn't the right class for it unless you play vs a group that hugs wards but doesn't have multiple copies (equalling very potent Chaos storms).

Shutdown/interruption (close to the same actually) are generally the best bets. Hex stacking sucks vs renewal though, keep that in mind. Mesmer is definitely not a class if you're looking for something that's not hard to manage. If you must though, I suggest mass diversion with a couple interrupts. Keep diversion constantly on one caster (echo would be great here) while interrupting the other one with leak/spike/drain.

Tellani Artini · Jul 22, 2005, 11:22 AM // 11:22

Depends on what the rest of the team is doing.

If using quickening zephyr, energy draining is excellent.

If spiking, hex disruption. Those seconds of a monk waiting around will spell doom for an unfortunate ally.

If your defense is relatively flimsy for whatever reason (nature's renewal maybe?), interrupts on enemy attackers. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, and power spike does a lot more damage to the enemy than, say, reversal of fortune.

Just a few overgeneralized examples. If there's an overall strategy, find a way to magnify its effectiveness. If there's a hole, fill it. I must say though, that the babysitting spell interrupter is probably the least useful. Rangers can do it better, longer, and cheaper.

rii · Jul 22, 2005, 12:21 PM // 12:21

i think im gonna write a really long prose about how great mesmers are..... btw the rough result is gonna be energy denial i think.

Pharalon · Jul 22, 2005, 01:37 PM // 13:37

If you're playing a primary mesmer, you really don't want to be focussing on energy denial. It's something that best done by secondaries, like monks using energy drain/tap, warriors and rangers using Signet of Weariness etc.

You want your mesmer to either be a roving interrupter (picking on several targets at once, and picking out the juciest skills to interrupt, rather than babysitting one target), or to be spreading hex disruption left right and center. Personally I think distruption is a hell of a lot more effective then interuption, mainly because it's something you can plan around. You can rely on a distruptor to harass 2 monks, a ritualist, whatever, and they can time that reliably for a spike. Interruptors can be more effective, but they're generally not as easy to plan team tactics around.

rii · Jul 22, 2005, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Surely rangers are the best interrupters..... the sheer quantity outweighs the quality of mesmer interrupts, and while its hard to focus on multiple people its a much better shutdown that even normal shutdown...

Epinephrine · Jul 22, 2005, 04:40 PM // 16:40

I'd tend to agree that rangers make good interruptors - but a mesmer has the mother of all interrupts, Power Block, and a pretty decent few spells in the form of Power Leak and such. After all, a ranger knocking a 5 cost spell out for 20 seconds is nice; a Power Block taking the entire attribute offline for 18 seconds is better. Delaying one of a monks spells can be very harmful, ture; knocking 26 energy off while stuffing a 5 cost spell down their throat knocks off 5 more 5 cost spells, and leaves them in bad shape. Power Leak is a counter that can result in 4 pips of degeneration by itself if it is used each time it surfaces - not a shabby spell at all.

Rangers have the edge in volume, certainly; I think mesmers have a real quality edge - tough to get any more heals off if you just got hit for a powerleak that took your whole energy pool, or if a power block eliminates all your healing spells.

rii · Jul 22, 2005, 04:48 PM // 16:48

^^ agreeed but if every two out of three actions is being interrupted the quality is moot. In a 3 monk team 2 rangers on each of the off monks would be total carnage.

Yukito Kunisaki · Jul 22, 2005, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Wow, very nice inputs.

Yes, I'll agree that mesmer baby-sitting just doesn't cut it in terms of efficiency. One teammate dedicated to one enemy just isn't useful.

I'll avoid interrupts though, I tried using some of the earlier ones like Leech Signet and Power Leak. Very hard for me to monitor who to use it on and enemies aren't predictable enough to me...

I like the idea of the hex watcher. He spreads hexes and they interrupt in his stead. Yes, the dreaded Nature's Renewal exists to foil my plans.

So would the energy draining idea fill the bill? But that means I can only target one energy heavy foe and then use said energy to nail chunks of non-casters. I don't think energy draining is hard hitting enough to clobber multiple enemies yet... However things like Nature's Renewal can't stop me since it's deathly common to see these days.

I haven't run into enough ward users to justify Chaos Storm spam.

The efficiency of Shame and Guilt in terms of energy manipulation. Can someone explain it? It doesn't seem they're good at maintaining my energy levels at all. Shutting people out for 9 seconds doesn't sound bad but stealing 12 for 10 energy sounds horrid.

If what I'm guessing is true, I think I'll just stick to heavy energy stealing. No Nature's Renewal to stop me. And with the high energy, I can leave casters with nothing to use for a few moments and make non-casters useless for a while.

Creed · Jul 23, 2005, 04:14 AM // 04:14

There really should'nt be a need to babysit any singular target. Your game plan should be to cause as much chaos to the enemy as possible.

For example: Backfire a target and change targets steal as much energy before changing back and Power blocking the first target. Ad when a person has been backfired the first thing they want its to get right back into the fight, and make up for lost time, makes power blocking ele's quite easy. You're really not looking to be draining a monks energy constantly, or backfiring him into oblivion, that's what will start to make you a very large and a very serious (and generally easy) target. You simply need to be there at the right moments, unlike the ele warrior or even the ranger who might be calling a target due to it being weak and needing healing, you do not help target that person, you change to that persons saviour their monk and one well placed power leak and boom. The peron he was about to heal is dead.

Partially shuting down 3 targets is better than completly suffocating one. Signet of humility on a monk specially if you see them use word of healing. Powerblock one target backfire another, drain the energy of the last target and you've caused serious trouble for half their team.

Reguardless of the mesmers build.. Baby sitting one target really should'nt be done, unless you see a potential weakness there or a supply chain which can be disrupted if you get my point.

rii · Jul 23, 2005, 08:35 AM // 08:35

Baby sitting can work when you run 2 mesmers, and your spiking their monk. The 2 mesmers take the 2 off monks while the team spike the on monk. He wouldnt last on his own. I would say 2 ranger interrupters would also do the trick, and running punishing savage serpents they can put out reasonable damage. Thing with a system like that is you dont need THAT high a damage output, since the enemy should have next to no healing.

Creed · Jul 24, 2005, 02:27 AM // 02:27

Yes of course baby sitting can work, the question is if it works as well as peppering several people with problems.

Mesmers lack a diffinitive direct damage skill line, or for that matter pair of skills. Meaning, while you may cause large scale problems for the target you're baby sitting, finnishing them off usually is'nt an option. Of course wastrels / other spells like it can do the job, but it's unlikly without support from others.

While you can backfire a target and then steal their energy, or power block them followed by energy stealing / backfire etc. You can acheive more chaos by, using backfire on a single target changing targets and stealing anothers energy, changing back to orginal target to power block them as backfire wears off. One person shut down, another close to. Then again this really is'nt what the mesmers there for, it's for denial. Be it: Energy denial, skill denial, casting denial (interrupts), etc.

A mesmer should be there in 'clinch' moments, an elementalist may be weakened and appear as an easy target, attacking that target with a mesmers line of skills wont help much, but if you target the 'supply' lines such as the monks, at that moment, you can cause serious problems for the other team. I suppose this is simply all point of view. If you target a high profile target such as a monk or elementlist you make yourself a high profile target, specially if you just wont leave them alone.

Cyan · Jul 24, 2005, 02:50 AM // 02:50

A mesmer is an intensive character to play. You can't focus on more than 2 targets if you expect to be able to be effective. At most if your thinking about mass energy drain you could use a signet of weariness every time it recharges and hope for the best. A lot of teams use the healing ball now and a signet of weariness could hit quite a few characters if you used it on one of those. The dias maps is also perfect for that.

Edge Martinez · Jul 24, 2005, 05:37 AM // 05:37

I like the Mesmer better as a secondary, even though I am playing a primary one now in PvE. A simple, but effective tactic I use when playing a mesmer secondary is using two slots, one for echo and one for whatever I want to echo. Even a warrior using this set up will change a caster's strategy alot.

Van the Warrior · Jul 24, 2005, 01:35 PM // 13:35

can u try Energy Tap + Echo + Arcane Echo? thats what -35 energy in 3 seconds? and it is semi spammable by the time u get to your 3rd E Tap your first should be back......

Miss Innocent · Jul 24, 2005, 02:20 PM // 14:20

I play mesmer often enough, and find that Energy Denial works ok as long as you add some other things too. Burning/Stealing out of characters is mean and effective; adding in enchantment/hex removal helps take out the spells they've already cast.

Of course Mesmer's normal energy stealing skills aren't as great as debilitating shot, but Ether Feast is useful for supporting energy denial (or just healing yourself once in a while, while causing random headaches for monks who really needed that 5 energy).

I've learned a bit from this thread, though, and will try using it.

Vindexus · Jul 24, 2005, 03:17 PM // 15:17

The key to playing mesmer as I see it is to remember that you're on a team. A lot of mesmers I play with just go and do their own thing and don't really talk. This doesn't help out that much.

For example, say you're running a heavy warrior group, then they're going to be spending some time building up adrenaline before they spike a target. Now the only skill you should be casting quite scarcely. Then when they call the spike, one monk gets Backfired, another gets Shamed, and if you can swing it, Diversion the third.

Warskull · Jul 24, 2005, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Many, many teams run the three monk combo now, Healer, Healer, Protector. You can take advantage of this by mixing your build. Take ignorance for the protector (hard to sustain those enchants without blessed signet), diversion, and backfire. These are your drop and forget it spells. Then you can take interrupts or energy drain for the target you focus on. The end result should be one target is partially disabled while your focused target is cursing at you.

That being said, playing a good mesmer is tricky. My suggestion is start playing in the competitive arenas with every single class and get good at spotting the casting animations. As a memser you cannot watch for skills by the pop-up on more than one character and the pop-up is delayed enough to cost you interrupts on the shortest spells. If you can spot casts by animation you can interrupt multiple characters. You just need cat-like reflexes.

Finally, with the popularity of spiking teams (especially air ele) lately I suggest looking into cry of frustration. This is the only group interrupt available. Very often spike teams call and all cast together on the same target. Nail one of those air eles with spike and you just interrupted 3-4 chain lightnings and saves your team and easy 600 damage. Chain is 1s so you have to be quick, but it can be done.

For practice take a few friends and hunt hydras in PvE, work on interrupting as many at once as you can. I found this trains you to look for casting animations and helps improve reaction.

All in all a mesmer can be a tricky and exhausting class to play. However if an enemy team has a good memser you feel it.

Vindexus · Jul 24, 2005, 08:06 PM // 20:06

No prot monks maintain enchantments anymore because of the abundancy of Nature's Renewal, so don't bother with Ignorance.

Soiled Egg Roll · Jul 25, 2005, 02:28 AM // 02:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van the Warrior

can u try Energy Tap + Echo + Arcane Echo? thats what -35 energy in 3 seconds? and it is semi spammable by the time u get to your 3rd E Tap your first should be back......

You could use Arcane Echo + Energy Drain and get the same effect for only 2 spells.